is anyone gonna keep playing disc 5.2?

90 Undead Priest
7425


You have control over the target(s) of Binding Heal. It'll always heal you and your target. The modified 5.2 version adds a smart heal to a 3rd target.

The current Binding Heal looks like this:

Binding Heal

Level 90

5.4% of base mana

40 yd range

1.5 sec cast
Requires Priest
Requires level 48

Heals a friendly target and the caster for 10896 to 14008 (+ 112.4% of SpellPower). Low threat.

----------

Hitting 3 people, you can think of it like: 32,688 to 42,024 (+337.20% of spellpower).

Assuming zero overheal, it's going to be one of Disco's best spells. And since crits proc DA...


Why would i cast binding heal when PoH heals more people and costs less mana? it still is gonna heal people for 34k ish raid buffed now? With reforges now i can hit 15.5 % crit add 5 % from raid and with PoH im basically promised 1 crit. Unless im missing something

I like the change dont get me wrong its gonna be great for inside the totem on spiritbinder ect. But in terms of output Poh is still doing more for less mana. Even if it does over heal a bit. I was just hoping for more i guess. I can say im loving the set bonuses for t 15 even if they are based on smart heals.


PoH is getting gutted.

The real value of PoH is the heal + DA proc. DA is very very efficient healing as there's ZERO overheal, and it's stackable. In 5.2, PoH is losing the automatic DA.

In 5.1 PoH = 5 DA's.
In 5.2 PoH = 1 DA (if you have 20% crit).

Soon, prestacking DA via PoH for efficient throughput, will be a thing of the past.

SS & PWB will be the only ways to predictably, proactively shield.

As simply a heal, the disco version of PoH isn't great.
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90 Human Priest
17015
Skips 9 pages of probably both thoughtful discussion and qq:

yes
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8340
Binding Heal will have more uses in 10 man. PoH cut off in 5.2 will be 3+ people based on the numbers, below that and there are more efficient options else where. Often there will be 2 people injured in a group in 10man and another 1-2 in the second group. BH is a lot more HPS and slightly more HPM if you are healing yourself and a target in one group and smart healing a 3rd in the other group. The question will be whether this is still too niche. I think BH's place would be cemented by having it stack grace.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
APM
9650
PoH is getting gutted.

The real value of PoH is the heal + DA proc. DA is very very efficient healing as there's ZERO overheal, and it's stackable. In 5.2, PoH is losing the automatic DA.

In 5.1 PoH = 5 DA's.
In 5.2 PoH = 1 DA (if you have 20% crit).

Soon, prestacking DA via PoH for efficient throughput, will be a thing of the past.

SS & PWB will be the only ways to predictably, proactively shield.

As simply a heal, the disco version of PoH isn't great.


Im not disagreeing Im just saying as of now PoH without DA is basically healing the same as binding heal with less mana. My point was why cast a more costly spell to heal less people. Plus with PoH you will get a larger chance to get a DA proc.

As previously pointed out Binding heal has a shorter cast time but i just dont see many opportunities as of now to cast minding over PoH.

Binding Heal Heals a friendly target, the caster, and a third nearby friendly target for [ 8,716 + 78.7% friendly target within 20 yards for [ 9,962 + 89.9% of Spell Power ]. 5.4% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.

^^ from mmo this morning i have 22k sp so my binding heals are just gonna do bout 30k My current PoH does 34k

Spiritual Healing Increases the healing done by your Flash Heal and Binding Heal by 43%. Priest - Holy & Discipline Spec. Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Renew, and Prayer of Mending by 25%. Priest - Holy & Discipline Spec.

even with this ^^ my binding will only do 37k so is it really woth casting?
Edited by Loratabb on 2/5/2013 11:40 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8340
PoH is getting gutted.

The real value of PoH is the heal + DA proc. DA is very very efficient healing as there's ZERO overheal, and it's stackable. In 5.2, PoH is losing the automatic DA.

In 5.1 PoH = 5 DA's.
In 5.2 PoH = 1 DA (if you have 20% crit).

Soon, prestacking DA via PoH for efficient throughput, will be a thing of the past.

SS & PWB will be the only ways to predictably, proactively shield.

As simply a heal, the disco version of PoH isn't great.


Im not disagreeing Im just saying as of now PoH without DA is basically healing the same as binding heal with less mana. My point was why cast a more costly spell to heal less people. Plus with PoH you will get a larger chance to get a DA proc.

As previously pointed out Binding heal has a shorter cast time but i just dont see amny opportunities as of now to cast minding over PoH.

Binding Heal Heals a friendly target, the caster, and a third nearby friendly target for [ 8,716 + 78.7% friendly target within 20 yards for [ 9,962 + 89.9% of Spell Power ]. 5.4% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.

^^ from mmo this morning i have 22k sp so my binding heals are just gonna do bout 30k My current PoH does 34k

Spiritual Healing Increases the healing done by your Flash Heal and Binding Heal by 43%. Priest - Holy & Discipline Spec. Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Renew, and Prayer of Mending by 25%. Priest - Holy & Discipline Spec.

evebn with this ^^ my binding will only do 37k so is it really woth casting?


I would ignore the latest data-mined info, when pulled in that format, it is notoriously in-accurate or for testing. If you go by that, they nerfed binding heal and renew, that isn't happening.
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90 Human Priest
11345
They did nerf the base spells for binding and renew (and a couple other things). The nerf amount is being returned to disc and holy through the spiritual healing passive.

It's another iteration of the nerf to shadow offhealing in pvp.
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90 Undead Priest
7425
PoH is getting gutted.

The real value of PoH is the heal + DA proc. DA is very very efficient healing as there's ZERO overheal, and it's stackable. In 5.2, PoH is losing the automatic DA.

In 5.1 PoH = 5 DA's.
In 5.2 PoH = 1 DA (if you have 20% crit).

Soon, prestacking DA via PoH for efficient throughput, will be a thing of the past.

SS & PWB will be the only ways to predictably, proactively shield.

As simply a heal, the disco version of PoH isn't great.


Im not disagreeing Im just saying as of now PoH without DA is basically healing the same as binding heal with less mana. My point was why cast a more costly spell to heal less people. Plus with PoH you will get a larger chance to get a DA proc.

As previously pointed out Binding heal has a shorter cast time but i just dont see many opportunities as of now to cast minding over PoH.

Binding Heal Heals a friendly target, the caster, and a third nearby friendly target for [ 8,716 + 78.7% friendly target within 20 yards for [ 9,962 + 89.9% of Spell Power ]. 5.4% of Base Mana. 40 yd range. 1.5 sec cast.

^^ from mmo this morning i have 22k sp so my binding heals are just gonna do bout 30k My current PoH does 34k

Spiritual Healing Increases the healing done by your Flash Heal and Binding Heal by 43%. Priest - Holy & Discipline Spec. Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Renew, and Prayer of Mending by 25%. Priest - Holy & Discipline Spec.

even with this ^^ my binding will only do 37k so is it really woth casting?


Lets go through it...

In 5.2 PoH is going to work like:

4.5% of base mana
40 yd range
2.5 sec cast
A powerful prayer heals the friendly target's party members within 30 yards for 8450 to 8927 (+ 83.8% of SpellPower).

Taking your 22k sp into consideration:

Average PoH on 5 people = 8450 to 8927 (+ 83.8% of 22,000) = 18,436 + 8688(avg) = 27124 on each target if in group and in range.

The Binding Heal SP and coefficients have been increased. To what exactly, I haven't seen yet. But we do know how the old Binding Heal works...

Heals a friendly target and the caster for 10896 to 14008 (+ 112.4% of SpellPower).

12452(avg) + (112.4 * 22000) = 12452 + 24782 = 37,180 to you and your target. The 3rd target with the glyph is calculated differently. With the glyph it adds 9962 + 89.9% of spellpower. So.. again with your 22k... 29,740.

So... Binding heal currently looks like:

37180 for your target
37180 for you
29740 for your third target

Assuming zero overheal and all targets in group/range...

BH = 104,100 on 3 total targets on a 1.5 second cast = 69,400 HPS
PoH = 81,372 on 3 total targets on a 2.5 second cast = 32,549 HPS
PoH = 108,496 on 4 total targets on 2.5 second cast = 43,398 HPS
PoH = 135,620 on 5 total targets on 2.5 second cast = 54,248 HPS

So the new binding heal (glyphed) is more HPS than PoH, even on 5 targets.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
02/04/2013 09:15 PMPosted by Sensations
I do agree that disc priest are OP atm, but the 5.2 change are making us severely UP.


I can't see it, Even when disc was ~20% under everyone else by meter standards, it was taken to progression frequently just because of what it brings. Disc will always be invaluable until absorbs are removed no matter your place on the meters unless it's an extreme.


You were brought because of your absorbs. Now you can't do them in any meaningful way outside of Spirit Shell (which even for 25man will not be meaningful given how little absorbs it has now on the PTR [30k self buffed w/ inner fire shields per cast]).

What's different now vs. then?
Then: PW:S had 30seconds, or after it's 15sec nerf it absorbed a significant amount vs. total health

Then: Prayer of Healing could prestack absorbs while now it is completely useless outside SS.

Then: There were fights which required stacking and high bursts of raid damage vs. now there are very few where PW:B is often unused as a raid CD, but instead a single target CD.

Then: Holy Paladin's weren't stacking Mastery and providing 25-30% of their output via absorbs.

02/04/2013 11:31 PMPosted by Rasul


While disc priests are obviously very good, these numbers are... somewhat exaggerated.

You can get close to 200k for the entirety of the Kaolan burn; maybe a bit higher on 25man due to divine star + stacked raid being pretty lol.

300-350k is not happening unless you have 100% crit (it might be doable with the PTR inner focus bug).


10-man

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ohlkyplfirkz3zeg/sum/healingDone/?s=11354&e=11780#Avael

25-man

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qvsfelephlav2nhh/sum/healingDone/?s=665&e=1155#Siory


You are missing one crucial detail. All the best parses for other classes have a Disc Priest in them. Sure Disc is awesome, but if you removed it from the equation, you would see other classes numbers go up.

Try doing the math yourself. Remove DA from PoH except with the average 20% crit (remove 80% of the DA). MASSIVELY reduce SS (reduce by 40%) and tell me how much output will the Disc Priest be doing on a fight like this? My numbers put them below the Resto Druid and that's before the massive buffs the class is going to get [incoming rejuv spam all over again]).

TLDR; Remember, Disc prevents the damage from happening. Does Disc need a nerf? Defiantly. But the nerf has to keep in mind that we won't be preventing other healers from healing and that we have no other spells to cast to heal in AoE situations.
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86 Human Priest
10345
sigh personally i dislike these changes so much, sadly i was enjoying my priest never knowing it was going to be nerfed. i dont specifically think "oh im good!" cause of the meters..but hell, in 7 years i havent ever seen myself come close to being 3rd on the healing meters.
i dont understand why resto druid has been buffed. where they even having problems to begin with?

Mastery: Nature's Guardian now provides 20% more armor per Mastery rating.
Rejuvenation now costs approximately 9% less mana.
Revive and Mark of the Wild now cost 55% less mana.
Faerie Swarm can now snare more than one target at a time.
Mass Entanglement now has a 30 second cooldown (was 2 minutes).

was this patch written by a druid?
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90 Human Paladin
15450
02/05/2013 12:52 AMPosted by Amabella
If so, thanks. That makes it easier than looking them up myself.


You were right. I was wrong.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
02/05/2013 03:09 PMPosted by Poena
You are missing one crucial detail. All the best parses for other classes have a Disc Priest in them. Sure Disc is awesome, but if you removed it from the equation, you would see other classes numbers go up.


I thought this would be a good exercise. I filtered out all the 10-man kill of HM Elite Protectors with Disc Priest and look for the best HPS for each spec between Asani’s death and Kaolan’s death.

Holy Priest

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1lcb2fvdenbrkwt3/sum/healingDone/?s=345&e=510

Mistweaver

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-swee3krixvs3p9ai/sum/healingDone/?s=418&e=619

Holy Paladin & Resto Shaman.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jgau208zcwbs1ib2/sum/healingDone/?s=6904&e=7107

Resto Druid

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r066tam3jzighxy1/sum/healingDone/?s=1168&e=1341

The top number for the Holy Priest during this phase of the fight is about 5k hps higher than Disc. Mistweaver is about 10k lower, Holy Paladin 20k lower, Resto Shaman 35k lower, and Resto Druid 47k lower.

What does this mean? Not much. Other than Disc Priest is far from being the weakest healer on sustained heavy AoE fights in 10-man. Also, you would have to go down pretty far to be below Resto Druid.

Unfortunately I was unable to repeat the exercise for 25-man. I could not find a 25-man HM Elite Protectors kill without Disc Priest.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14035
I think a lot of the changes to disc are more like "trade-offs" than anything else. Aegis isn't really the problem, first of all, SS is. The cap on it is far too high for having such a low CD (and only gets higher the more gear we have, it needs a real cap like Aegis has if you ask me :P). And on the subject of SpiritShell, it's still going to be crazy IMO, with or without mastery, doesn't matter. it's not hard to cap it before inc dmg.

I would not get upset about how they are removing the aegis procs from PoH, though, because that was a change implemented at the start of Cata anyway if I remember correctly. Personally I think they should have left it more tank-oriented/single target oriented (hpals too lol).... but thats a different subject

I'm still up for giving disc a try in 5.2, if given the chance.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10645
02/06/2013 02:11 AMPosted by Aethereal
Aegis isn't really the problem, first of all, SS is.

No, Aegis (specifically 50% Aegis, scaling with Mastery) is a major, major part of the problem.

Taking it to zero is harsh for a spec with no other AoEs - it's at as almost as much of an AoE disadvantage at 0% as it was at an advantage with 50%. I think 15-20% would be balanceable, maybe even 25%, but 50% is flucking batsnot crazy.
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T14 four piece for ever.

And ever.


I doubt it. As soon as BlizzTard realizes that players might hang onto T14, they will drop the nerf-hammer.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
The top number for the Holy Priest during this phase of the fight is about 5k hps higher than Disc. Mistweaver is about 10k lower, Holy Paladin 20k lower, Resto Shaman 35k lower, and Resto Druid 47k lower.

What does this mean? Not much. Other than Disc Priest is far from being the weakest healer on sustained heavy AoE fights in 10-man. Also, you would have to go down pretty far to be below Resto Druid.

Unfortunately I was unable to repeat the exercise for 25-man. I could not find a 25-man HM Elite Protectors kill without Disc Priest.


No doubt Disc is overpowered. But we are talking about a 33% reduction in our only AoE heal, and more importantly making it so that heal will not see uses in most situations (in every situation the solution is to prestack DA... forced upon us by encounter design).

Also 10man is a massively different beast from 25man. 25mans are generally all AoE healing.

So while we would have to go pretty far down to be @ resto druid level... Isn't that exactly what is happening. We are losing 80+% of our output from PoH (by removing DA, it will only be cast after damage or with SS), and 40% of our output from SS. So ya... we're talking 50-60% nerfs to our AoE healing. 50+% nerfs to our AoE output AND Resto Druids are seeing massive buffs to theirs (they will be Rejuv spamming again).
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90 Worgen Druid
12935
sigh personally i dislike these changes so much, sadly i was enjoying my priest never knowing it was going to be nerfed. i dont specifically think "oh im good!" cause of the meters..but hell, in 7 years i havent ever seen myself come close to being 3rd on the healing meters.
i dont understand why resto druid has been buffed. where they even having problems to begin with?

Mastery: Nature's Guardian now provides 20% more armor per Mastery rating.
Rejuvenation now costs approximately 9% less mana.
Revive and Mark of the Wild now cost 55% less mana.
Faerie Swarm can now snare more than one target at a time.
Mass Entanglement now has a 30 second cooldown (was 2 minutes).

was this patch written by a druid?


Considering this has to do with healing, and only one of that list deals directly with healing, I don't understand what being a druid has to do with the whole disc priest topic.

I've always been a fan of knowing your class, and anything that proves problematic will sort itself out. I know the disc in my raid will continue to be disc, if only to prove the QQers that disc is still very viable and still flippin' awesome.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
APM
9650
02/06/2013 03:05 AMPosted by Kaels
Aegis isn't really the problem, first of all, SS is.

No, Aegis (specifically 50% Aegis, scaling with Mastery) is a major, major part of the problem.

Taking it to zero is harsh for a spec with no other AoEs - it's at as almost as much of an AoE disadvantage at 0% as it was at an advantage with 50%. I think 15-20% would be balanceable, maybe even 25%, but 50% is flucking batsnot crazy.


Having DA buffed to 50% is OP but it is having SS that is causing so much stir over PoH having DA. Players could not keep DA rolling if we did not have unlimited mana. Between procs tide and rapture going oom is hard to do.

Our problems are not with mechanics our main issue is with regen. If you remove SS from the equation DA is no longer a problem @ 30%. Having SS not affected by mastery is going to cause more problems than it solves.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Having DA buffed to 50% is OP but it is having SS that is causing so much stir over PoH having DA. Players could not keep DA rolling if we did not have unlimited mana. Between procs tide and rapture going oom is hard to do.

Our problems are not with mechanics our main issue is with regen. If you remove SS from the equation DA is no longer a problem @ 30%. Having SS not affected by mastery is going to cause more problems than it solves.


So what you're saying is that SS wasn't the problem, Rapture and DA were the problem.

Yet you're still trying to say that DA would not be a problem at 30%. The thing is, yes it would. It would still be a problem because it can be rolled across the raid indefinitely because we have infinite mana at the moment (and it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon). It wasn't Spirit Shell that was causing Disc Priests to completely suppress and shut out their co-healers - it was rolling DA across the raid endlessly.

Personally, I think it's a terrible healing style. But people were doing it, and now we're all stuck with the results.

SS really isn't the issue. SS looks better than it actually is in HoF because every fight's mechanics appear to designed specifically to make it look amazing - everything is on a 1 min timer, even crush happens at about the 45-50 second mark.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
APM
9650
My point is without endless amounts of mana we could not keep DA rolling. Im not saying disc is fine the way it is but little is going to really change in 5.2 except the fact that we dont have a viable output for more than once every min.

Bubbles are nice and even at 90k bubbles we can not hit everyone. We need a ability thats on par with all other classes in terms of quickly getting players HP bars to full. I would not be advocating for this if SS was not getting destroied and DA basicly reduced to RNG. If your gonna get rid of half our absorbs we should have our heals buffed slightly to compensate.

The way things currently sit for example. Take empress assuming you cast SS before the 1st sonic discharge. If your raid doesn't pop the bubble in time your screwed. We have no way to effectively bring up players HP bars. I dont think its too much to ask to get small buffs to our only effective aoe heal.

Way too much of our potential is tied into SS and its getting nerfed. With more and more players migrating to crit. Even PW:S is gonna be less and less useful do to lower mastery levels. Im not a fan of RNG. It seems like this spec is getting more and more RNG and less actual control.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8340
Latest patches say that evangelism is going to now also increase healing done by penance. Has anyone done any testing and know if this stacks with grace and if it affects healing done by atonement? I would assume so on all the above, but if that is the case, the spell is doing some major double dipping.
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