World of Warcraft®

02/08/2013 12:13 AMPosted by Mist

That would be entirely impractical, and completely useless in 99% of situations. Having to balance content around that would also be a nightmare.

ehh, this reply seems a bit devoid of imagination. i mean he just tossed out a really cool idea. an argument of "impracticality" would have to go on some specific details, so i assume you mean my suggestion. its a once per fight spell that heals 40% hp on 5 ppl, offers them a temporary dps boost for at most 16 sec each, and a 20% hp spell shield.

there are class or spec specific "raid cooldown" type big spells for healing, dmg, and absorb cooldowns all on 1 to 3 min cooldowns, that generally affect far more of the raid, for less work, and can be used more often, and by individual players. i don't see how a "combo-spell" would be any more difficult to balance around than all those much more massive and dramatic effects that already exist. and i think its a bit hasty to give up on a really good idea that abruptly, as if you are a professional giver-upper IRL.

anyway i just said the first thing that came to mind. i'm confident there are far better, cooler ways to implement combination type attacks, but of course if healers get them then tanks and dps will want their own too. really all i was impressed by was the next level of teamwork it would require to play in a world where spells like that exist. i guess i am just tired of simply hitting a button and that being the totality of the gameplay experience involved in using a "big" ability. divine hymn, for example. pw: barrier. these spells are disturbingly easy to use.

Shadowdancer Blitz. usable by: 3 rogues

forms blurring, the rogues assault with increased dodge, attack speed, and movement by 50% for 5 seconds. while active the rogues strike with the highest attack power in the link.

overpowered? idk. at once per 10 minutes, it certainly doesn't appear, to me at least, to be any more egregious than many single-player-usable skills. i could do this all day, thinking these up is too much fun.

but, how to activate it, not sure. maybe allow 1 rogue to place a "triangle" glyph on the ground behind the boss, or target or w/e, and each rogue needs to stand at each point on the triangle to have it activate.

i do think the key is to keep ideas like this solidly within the realm of "average benefit" so people aren't too upset if they can't use a certain link. like 5 secs for each rogue in the above, that's 15 sec total. that's the same duration as adrenaline rush which is only a 3 min cooldown. i doubt AR is the only cooldown a rogue has, too. maybe using a combo could put personal cd's on cd if balance is seriously a "big issue."

anyway i'm done, i don't wanna derail the thread further, i was just so blown away by what shisnan said. great idea man.

I think they should try to focus on worrying about balancing the spells they already have rather than putting in spells that will be nearly impossible to balance.

Players are already incapable of properly using the tools already available to them, to implement a combo system for multiple classes would be just pointless. When you add in long CD's, they're either useless or required for every encounter. Usually the second is true.

To add in a spell that requires multiple healers to activate and use means that you have to design encounters with additional raid damage \ mechanics that need to be countered (which means that raiding becomes even more difficult for the general population,) and let's not even begin to talk about the consequences a combo system would have in PvP (IE: it would be essentially impossible to use.)

I'm sorry, but it's just not a good idea. Not for World of Warcraft.

It is impractical, no matter how you try to put it.

well to be honest i don't think its a good idea. i think its a great idea. an *amazing* idea full of fun possibilities. i could think up literally dozens of great combination attacks, and i'm not sure you've got a good counter-point when you say we should just keep the status-quo (as if that's even possible), or the playerbase is just too dumb to handle it, or that we should encourage facerolling, or that we should not encourage more teamwork.

a good way to encourage better teamwork is to offer fun rewards, for instance really flashy graphics, or a rare and special once-per-boss-fight (for example) spell you can only use with other players, that offers bonuses you can't get any other way, at least not all-in-one like that.

now, you're entitled to your opinion, but i'm just going to tell you here and now you've said about .0000000000000000000001% of what i consider required to saliently and eruditely argue against this idea. i am completely capable of giving you hundreds and thousands of ideas and ways this *could* work, but i don't think people would appreciate that, and i'd have to put up with an endless onslaught of your objections that, based on what you've said so far, i'm sure would be tiresome to deal with in both their simplicity and bounty. and honestly what it comes down to is me having to reprogram your entire existence and way of thinking to accept my point of view.

that is the essence of all argument. and the conclusion i've reached is that its highly likely all of us, most of us, or just those of us who can actually change it for all of us/most of us, will eventually decide its far more cost effective to replace, rather than reprogram. there, i've done gone predicted all our futures, and its not a pretty one.

just had to get that off my chest. now that i have you, and anyone else, may continue to say its a completely terrible idea, and i can rest at ease knowing even if you do you're rawng rawng RAWNG

Well that was a pretty random thread derail.

02/08/2013 03:15 AMPosted by Thaimaishu

Well that was a pretty random thread derail.

Very sad at how zen sphere has been nerfed into uselessness. When I tried it the other day, you couldn't even detonate it manually. It just refreshed it. Was that just a bug I had? It's hard to keep up with all these PTR changes.

02/08/2013 06:34 AMPosted by Katlei

Well that was a pretty random thread derail.

Very sad at how zen sphere has been nerfed into uselessness. When I tried it the other day, you couldn't even detonate it manually. It just refreshed it. Was that just a bug I had? It's hard to keep up with all these PTR changes.

30 talents have been on a rollercoaster every new build. It's hard to say where it will end up when everything is said and done. 45 talents are also in flux, and some things I just have no idea on (Life Cocoon). I fully expect to have some significant relearning to do. It was fairly obvious with the TP/BoK/30 talent changes, but it seems like it might end up being more than that.

Nothing has really changed except we get one more toy to play with for single target/spot healing. Nothing about AoE healing has changed. Level 30 talents will just be free heals.

I reckon mana usage will still be a bit iffy.. the nerved the damage of Blackout kick to 150% from 200% originally… and the Mana cost of map is up to.. 4.5% at last count? We'll see.. but play styles will change drastically methinks!

02/13/2013 05:40 PMPosted by Shisnan

I reckon mana usage will still be a bit iffy.. the nerved the damage of Blackout kick to 150% from 200% originally… and the Mana cost of map is up to.. 4.5% at last count? We'll see.. but play styles will change drastically methinks!

The mana return from Tiger Palm should help mitigate the mana cost for Jab, so it's not that bad.

02/13/2013 05:48 PMPosted by Flintte

I reckon mana usage will still be a bit iffy.. the nerved the damage of Blackout kick to 150% from 200% originally… and the Mana cost of map is up to.. 4.5% at last count? We'll see.. but play styles will change drastically methinks!

The mana return from Tiger Palm should help mitigate the mana cost for Jab, so it's not that bad.

That's only if you are using TP. How often are you really going to be hitting TP after a jab? Uplift and BoK are some real go to chi burners. Throughput cooldowns on the Lvl 30 talents are a flat out nerf. If they are healing for same as live doubling the cooldown is a substantial nerf. Free lvl 30 isn't that exciting given it was another option for chi usage when uplift and enveloping weren't the right cast.

How about a little compensation in the form of a mana reduction for Surging Mist? That is one mana hog spell. Wouldn't be shocked if monks get penalized the most for going to the big heal spell. I know on my RShaman I don't think twice on using greater healing wave (which hits for a lot more), whereas on the monk hitting surge is a major decision. Single target healing options are very limited for spike damage. Surge to expensive. EnvM not on demand. SuM to small. Healing sphere is completely outside the class synergy and a real pita to use in a pve enviroment. The sky isn't falling but I really don't feel like the Mistweavers are throughput kings on live.

So is there any point in leveling a monk or should I just do a generic priest.

02/15/2013 02:07 AMPosted by Sydell

So is there any point in leveling a monk or should I just do a generic priest.

I think you should play what you like. I enjoy my Monk.

That's a fairly generic response.

02/15/2013 02:28 AMPosted by Sydell

That's a fairly generic response.

The fact is that you will always do better playing something you enjoy than you will playing something you hate.

02/15/2013 02:28 AMPosted by Sydell

That's a fairly generic response.

Classes change all the time. play what you like

02/05/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Flintte

The T30 talent change is especially good for Brewmaster Monks, who absolutely did not have the chi to spare to use them.

Uh, no, Brewmasters have quite a lot of chi to throw around. Around 8k haste (490 ilvl) lets me maintain a 15+ second Shuffle, use Guard basically off cd, and Chi Wave very frequently. That's with 7.5% hit and 15% expertise.

And how about the longer CD for Chi Burst.. used to love that as a chi dumper… will be so sad now… Chi Wave will be the go to I guess.. this will the Healing sphere-spell be viable with 2 applications now?

The T30 talent change is especially good for Brewmaster Monks, who absolutely did not have the chi to spare to use them.

Uh, no, Brewmasters have quite a lot of chi to throw around. Around 8k haste (490 ilvl) lets me maintain a 15+ second Shuffle, use Guard basically off cd, and Chi Wave very frequently. That's with 7.5% hit and 15% expertise.

This is the silliest comment.

For a Brewmaster, it is an absolute necessity that you need to be dumping Chi into Blackout Kick for Shuffle. If it's not there, it's for Guard, or if you really need that AoE threat and disorient, Breath of Fire. Why? Mitigation and survivability. Shuffle is this single BIGGEST reason monks can do well in tanking, so if people aren't keeping it up by spending their Chi on a short-term burst heal, they're going to die. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Blackout Kick > any of the T30 talents for Brewmaster.

I think this is the reason for the removal of Chi costs for the T30 talents. Brewmasters and Windwalkers simply weren't using them. Their Chi was better spent in either straight mitigation or straight DPS skills. Mistweavers got the most kick out of them, but what's the point in having talents that spread across all specs if two of the specs can't even use them. On the other hand, making these talents cost absolutely nothing and leaving them untouched makes them incredibly overpowered. Nerfing them to compensate for the lack of cost, either through CD or power, is simply fair. As Mistweavers, we just need to deal with this and move on.