Chi-Wave & Zen Sphere gutted on PTR

80 Human Priest
3225
Chi-Wave is worse then live...healing for the same amount as live...and that is in full season 13 gear with the 25% pvp power healing boost on the PTR. However we now have to deal with a 15sec cooldown... =(

Zen Sphere heals for 1900 in full season 13 per tick, and explodes for 8k healing lol.

We have like no survival now outside of ToK, and Ring is mandatory now if you plan to pvp as WW.
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90 Human Monk
6805
I hope not. Maybe just a bug?
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80 Human Priest
3225
02/05/2013 09:35 PMPosted by Vool
I hope not. Maybe just a bug?


no the nerfs showed up on MMO earlier but when the blizz notes got updated they were not on there...

They appear to be intentional. It's really really bad =/.

I guess our live healing was OP....
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ghost crawler said he wanted to make dramatic changes. he meant for a week on ptr just to troll you.
Edited by Fran on 2/5/2013 9:52 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
7190
chill out chicken little.
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I knew a lot of things on the ptr would never make it live, but I just logged off of it and I can tell you we are gutted already from most of the nerfs we were given. In Pve we are doing better, in pve it's just grrrr. Atleast the bait and switch will not make it to live.
Edited by Bones on 2/5/2013 10:08 PM PST
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It may be a bug, since they did indicate it is supposed to have 2x the healing vs. what it does in live.
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90 Human Mage
8175
but hey, mages got buffed.

thats whats important, right?

im not even sure what blizzards definition of "balance" is anymore.


while i agree that blizz balance i bad i fail to see how mages got buffed

and for Chi wave, didn't they remove the chi cost from it making it easier to heal and put out dmg?
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but hey, mages got buffed.

thats whats important, right?

im not even sure what blizzards definition of "balance" is anymore.


while i agree that blizz balance i bad i fail to see how mages got buffed

and for Chi wave, didn't they remove the chi cost from it making it easier to heal and put out dmg?

Blazing Speed plus Blink and burst = mage can't be touched and they burst you down in 5 seconds, while on the move.

Chi Wave had it's cost removed yes, but it now heals for less than it does on live, and at DOUBLE the CD.

As it stands, with these changes, Monks have roughly 40% of the currently self-healing they do on live (this taking into the PVP Power Buff).
Edited by Adornafist on 2/6/2013 9:00 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Monk
8430
but hey, mages got buffed.

thats whats important, right?

im not even sure what blizzards definition of "balance" is anymore.


while i agree that blizz balance i bad i fail to see how mages got buffed

and for Chi wave, didn't they remove the chi cost from it making it easier to heal and put out dmg?


Chi cost was never the issue for Chi wave. At least in PVE. Does almost as much damage as BOK for WW. For MW it served as a useful Chi dump to get mana tea stacks. For BM... if you needed to use Chi Wave at all it was the heal. Only time you really needed it was for magic heavy fights, and for those Chi Wave served as an alternative to BOK.

The current change just makes Chi Wave worse in every possible way for PVE. So yeah, hoping -- really hoping -- it is a bug.
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You know what's going to happen right? Blizzard will come out saying it's a bug, revert the change, when in all actuality it was intended and just a gigantic oversight.
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While this makes me a sad panda, it's not really game breaking, especially next to the other changes. You also had to admit that Chi wave was extremely strong on the ptr for WW, as are a number of the other changes (looking at you SFB).

My experience this arena season has taught me above all else that as long as warrior nerfs go live, monks will be fine next patch, even if nothing else were to change.

Everything else is just icing.

To clarify, assuming from the OPs post referring to 25% pvp power healing, both his and my perspectives are from that of the WW. This nerf flat out sucks for MW healing.
Edited by Innverse on 2/6/2013 10:13 AM PST
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90 Human Monk
7740
Go home Ghostcrawler you're drunk. This is terrible it is worse than live 45k heals from this ability.
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80 Human Priest
3225
While this makes me a sad panda, it's not really game breaking, especially next to the other changes. You also had to admit that Chi wave was extremely strong on the ptr for WW, as are a number of the other changes (looking at you SFB).

My experience this arena season has taught me above all else that as long as warrior nerfs go live, monks will be fine next patch, even if nothing else were to change.

Everything else is just icing.

To clarify, assuming from the OPs post referring to 25% pvp power healing, both his and my perspectives are from that of the WW. This nerf flat out sucks for MW healing.


Innverse

I agree with you that in 3v3 it won't hurt to bad, and I agree it was really strong on the PTR. My only problem is they nerfed it to be worse then it is on live? I am ok with nerfs because every class gets them from time to time.

However it's healing for the same as live (and we don't even benefit from pvp power on our heals on live), in the best gear possible (season 13), with double the cooldown.

That seems like taking a hatchet when a scalpel was needed. MW healing also took a major hit with these changes. Chi-Wave is worse now then live, and we no longer have a instant to fill that 8sec gap.

Good times.
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While this makes me a sad panda, it's not really game breaking, especially next to the other changes. You also had to admit that Chi wave was extremely strong on the ptr for WW, as are a number of the other changes (looking at you SFB).

My experience this arena season has taught me above all else that as long as warrior nerfs go live, monks will be fine next patch, even if nothing else were to change.

Everything else is just icing.

To clarify, assuming from the OPs post referring to 25% pvp power healing, both his and my perspectives are from that of the WW. This nerf flat out sucks for MW healing.


Innverse

I agree with you that in 3v3 it won't hurt to bad, and I agree it was really strong on the PTR. My only problem is they nerfed it to be worse then it is on live? I am ok with nerfs because every class gets them from time to time.

However it's healing for the same as live (and we don't even benefit from pvp power on our heals on live), in the best gear possible (season 13), with double the cooldown.

That seems like taking a hatchet when a scalpel was needed. MW healing also took a major hit with these changes. Chi-Wave is worse now then live, and we no longer have a instant to fill that 8sec gap.

Good times.


The way I see it, it's just one ability out of many changes that works worse than a current live ability. Even better, this one doesn't even affect my primary role (damage dealing). That's just my opinion, though. However, I also have always been of the opinion that monks are mostly fine, and these ptr changes are a ridiculous over-adjustment to compensate for without addressing directly our main weakness affecting our representation (passive mitigation while stunned). But as I said before, the warrior nerfs are the biggest address to that particular weakness at present.

For MW, as I said, it just flat out sucks as they relied on Chi Wave a fair amount as far as I could tell.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7900
The question is, do they need to nerf them at all? Chi Wave is strong, but not THAT strong. It is a good tool in our toolset, nothing more. I just did some testing on a target dummy. With my 354k hps and self buffs, accounting for the 30% pvp healing reduction and the ubiquitous mortal wounds type debuff, in my gear it heals on average for 32.5k (43.3k without mw). Thats a 9.1% (12.2% without mw) heal. Its good for a self heal every 8-10s (at best), but it isn't spectactular. It's about the same as a hunters spirit bond, and we are a "healing class".

Of course, it can get better than that, with lucky crits or a trinket proc, so its a little better, but not by so much as to get all excited. We also have other heals, which definitely add on, but we are not great self healers. We are competent at best. Its a part of our toolset. So what would be the requirement of nerfing this?
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I think most people can agree that windwalkers are quite strong on the ptr and either need adjustments there or will likely see some hotfixes or patched in changes come 5.2.1. I agree this may not be the area they need to be hit, but I don't hear WW players complaining that they don't heal people enough on live. It's not really a core focus of the spec and the current amount is fine for off-healing especially when combined with healing spheres if needed.

Again I go with fine because almost no one complains about WW healing being inadequate on live.

Honestly if they hadn't buffed it first I doubt anyone would see this change as that big of a deal.

But for MW it's terrible.
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80 Human Priest
3225
Well TeB was nerfed back to 4chi per 1 stack.

So 40 BoK and 40 jabs to reach 10 stacks.
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Well TeB was nerfed back to 4chi per 1 stack.

So 40 BoK and 40 jabs to reach 10 stacks.


While I could also find justification for this change, 2 undocumented changes reverting abilities to their 5.1 mechanics tells me it might be a rollback related bug. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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