SFK bug or operator error?

27 Human Paladin
160
Preface: Spent a whole day trying to get up a guild party to do Shadowfang Keep, but got precisely zero response - so, as I was verging on popping lvl 27, I went to the Dungeon Finder and got a party together. And, typically, they all ran through it so fast I was last man on the scene for every fight.

But here's the real problem. I'm almost dead certain we killed Baron Ashbury - I rolled for his scepter and got it, which seems proof enough to me. We killed Lord Godfrey, the rest of the party vanished, and I was sent back to Elwynd Forest, where I originally entered the instance. Yet my quest log still shows "Shadowfang Keep" and "Baron Ashbury slain 0/1," both in grey; I didn't get credit for finishing SFK; and I leveled 27, which means I can't get back in through the Dungeon Finder to finish him off.

What's up with all this?

Epilogue: I'm truly sorry if I'm so obtuse as to be a PITA, but there's a great deal about this game that's not at all obvious, at least to me.
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90 Human Paladin
9565
From what I can see, the item you won (Baron's Scepter) drops from both Baron Silverlane and Baron Ashbury; you're certain of which one you killed?

In any case, if you're sure you killed Lord Godfrey you should submit an in-game ticket to a GM, because that kill is not showing up in your Armory profile (I'm assuming you've logged off since then).

Lastly, when you say you were sent back to Elwynn Forest, was that something you chose to do by clicking "Leave Party" or "Teleport out of Dungeon" or did it happen suddenly and without your taking any action? If the latter, it is possible you were voted out of the group, and that may have affected your credit for the kill.
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Ashbury is the first boss, he's down a set of stairs and kinda off to the side, and after defeating him you have to wait a bit for someone to unlock the door before you can head into the courtyard -- he's the one who lifts everyone into the air and chokes them, and you can't stop it. Silverlaine is the one in the dining hall, surrounded by ghosts that can be tricky to target, and 99% of groups will cut through the kitchen to reach him (and you'll pass ghosts who are wearing chef's hats, and a bit of trivia, the ghosts he summons are the pre-Cata bosses). Do you remember doing both of those?

Did you happen to die during any of the fights? If you released and ran back during the fight, that could cause you to lose credit for the kill.

Frankly I'm sorry to hear you're having these troubles, like you've said before it's truly a massive game, and unfortunately it can be a little too overwhelming at times :( Glad you got your Gavel though, be sure to hold onto it if you want to use that same look on future weapons, through Transmogrification.
Edited by Drewb on 2/7/2013 8:44 AM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
2800
It's either a bug that happens when the party is severely fragmented (that I've only run into a couple of times so I couldn't tell you what causes it), or more likely, the bit where (IIRC) you have to acknowledge a quest popup before the next quest is given. This can be hard to spot if your attention is focused on not falling behind everybody else.

Do what I did when the Blackrock Depths fetch quest popped. (Which it will at 50, and good luck finding a group that doesn't just zerg the place.) Leave it there until you have some more levels under your belt, then walk in the front door and solo the place. The big advantage of doing it this way is that you get to explore at your own pace, rather than being so focused on keeping up that you can't actually learn anything.
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27 Human Paladin
160
Drewb, to be as honest as I know how to be, the instance went so mammyjammin' fast I got very little sense at all of either the surroundings or the mobs, bosses or minions. I remember very very little of it except the breakneck rushing on to the next boss. And no, I didn't die at all.

I vaguely recall checking my map and seeing a boss by himself in a dead end near the beginning. I ran up to check it out, but the rest of the party was long-gone in the opposite direction, so I dropped it and ran to catch up with them, and never went back.

I strongly suspect it's as Arnblas suggested: I got the scepter from Silverlaine, and did in fact get booted from the dungeon, because I wound up back outside the gates of Stormwind with no notice or a by-your-leave. I freely admit I did next-to-no tanking at all; it was all I could do to keep up with the rest of the party. But I did pass on all the loot rolls except for the scepter (I got the gavel after the instance ended, and ended up not keeping the scepter).

But now I'm truly at a loss. This is my third dungeon, and the other two were just like this one. I told the party at the outset that this was my first time in the dungeon, and that I had a quest within it to fulfill. Nobody else ever spoke a word, even in acknowledgement. How the hell can anyone with less than lightning quick reflexes and full foreknowledge of the instance even hope to learn anything from it under those circumstances? It occurs to me right now that the Dungeon Finder could well be refined to differentiate between players who've already run the instance and are just milking it for loot (or whatever) and players who've never been there before (or much of anyplace, for that matter) and want to learn something. It looks to me at this point like instances are heavily biased in favor of the former group, much to the detriment of the latter. I'm also thinking seriously of just questing ... and I'm also thinking that maybe this is not the game for me, after all. It really is true that you can't please all of the people all of the time, and it would appear that players of my inclination are heavily outnumbered. I've been reading some of the other forums here, and most of the chatter is about how to max a character in the absolute shortest span of time, displaying about as much concern for subtlety as a drop-forge. 8(
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90 Human Paladin
9565
Certainly, many (if not most) of the people you are matched with in the random dungeon finder will be experienced players who already know all the dungeons quite well. And unfortunately, some of those people may be jerks. In particular, they may feel that it's not worth their time to help you learn and develop as a player, because they want to optimize their play time.

There's not a lot you can do about this at your current level, since the dungeons are easy enough that the other players can handle the dungeon without a tank. As you level up, you will find this gradually changes. By the time you reach level 90, it would be very, very difficult for a group to succeed in a dungeon without the assistance of the tank, and few people would try it.

For now, I would recommend perseverance, at least for as long as you are enjoying it. There are many ways to progress in WoW that can be done at your own pace; you can do quests, work on your professions, do the holiday content (currently, the lunar new year), or just plain explore the world. This is a game you are playing to have fun!

Another option is to try to find a friend or two who wants to play with you. You can queue together for dungeons and will be in a much better position to dictate the pace.
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Another option that is frequently offered here for players with less experience is to re-spec as Retribution and queue as DPS instead of tank. If you do so, following and doing less will be less consequence and you will be less likely to get kicked. When you have learned the dungeos and learned how players talk, what they do, etc., you can try speccing into protection again and queuing as a tank.

Queuing as a tank is a bad idea generally for new players for all the reasons you've experienced. Tank is simply a more demanding role than DPS. It's a lot to take on when you don't know anything.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10385
Unhurried, I've been following your posts as I know many have, and I hope you stay in the game. You will be a real asset to the community, in my opinion.

That said, I think Harlan may be right in this case. It's generally advised to not tank a dungeon until you know it well, as that is the leadership role. Respeccing is pretty cheap right now; if you go retribution (dps) you won't generally get booted unless you stand in stuff and die, or go afk.

At level 30 you can dual spec and take Protection (tanking) as your other spec. Then make some times to run with guildies who will help you learn how to tank. If you current guild won't do that, look for a different one. You can try out different guilds until you find the right one, and as long as you're polite there is no problem changing guilds.

If you enjoy tanking, by all means go back to it. But it's a lot to learn, both the dungeon and how to tank, especially when everyone in the random knows the dungeon inside-out.

Having a dual spec has the added advantage of getting to know your class better.

When I first started this game....at age 53....I found it was a very high learning curve, especially as I've played no other similar games at all. But worth the effort.

ps: if you go Ret, look up or ask for information about melee dpsing. But it's much easier than tanking, at least while learning.
Edited by Nebliina on 2/7/2013 3:24 PM PST
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90 Troll Mage
12990
02/07/2013 07:55 AMPosted by Arnblas
Lastly, when you say you were sent back to Elwynn Forest, was that something you chose to do by clicking "Leave Party" or "Teleport out of Dungeon" or did it happen suddenly and without your taking any action? If the latter, it is possible you were voted out of the group, and that may have affected your credit for the kill.
Or may have been result of an instance server crash/reset.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
12435
Baron Ashbury must be killed in order to progress into the courtyard, so you did kill him.

The SFK questgiver, Ivar Bloodfang, follows the party through the dungeon so they can turn in the quest they have and get the next one. It's possible that you didn't get the Ashbury quest until after you killed Ashbury -- thus no credit for the kill.
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27 Human Paladin
160
Sorry I'm a bit slow in coming back on this, but real life does intrude from time to time; besides, I've been busy in-game trying a different approach.

You should know that I'm not a fan of "chat," either in real life or, especially, on-line. Don't misunderstand me: I love participating in focused, intelligent discussions of all kinds. It's just that such are extremely rare, again especially, on-line, and I'd rather spend my time re-primering the Jeep than getting dragged down into what's generally available. (That's why I value this forum so much - The S/N ratio is higher here than I've ever found anywhere else.) People tout WoW for its social aspects, but so far I'm greatly unimpressed with what I've found. The talk I've seen in-game has been either silly or vicious, or both, when it happens at all. And this has been particularly true, at least for me, in instances.

So what I've done is to roll a retribution paladin alt, with whom I plan to quest, exclusively, until I get to a high-enough level to double back and try some low-level dungeons solo. I'm hoping thereby to be able to explore them at my leisure, and get a clear understanding of what's going on. When I feel comfortable enough with that, by which time I also hope to have run up on at least a few like-minded players in-game, then I'll re-roll my tankadin and see how partying goes then. If that doesn't work out, then I'll just see if I can get to level cap via questing alone.

Whatever, I'm really going to try to stay at least somewhat active in this forum, and maybe a few others. What's happening here is really valuable and well worth preserving and nurturing, IMO. Maybe I could even give back a little with whatever I'm able to learn about this game. Thanks again to all of you for your responses!
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27 Human Paladin
160
Alicite - I've never seen or interacted with Ivar Bloodfang. I got the Hand Of The Light quest from Lord Grayson Shadowbreaker, a paladin trainer in the Cathedral of Light in Stormwind City, which was my entry into Shadowfang Keep. That's how I got my Gavel Of The Order, which was dropped by Commander Springvale. That quest also involved picking up 5 crates of moonsteel ingots and 5 deathless sinews from the ghouls and gheists in the dungeon. Getting those items was a large part of why I fell so far behind the party - they just wouldn't wait long enough for me to pick them up.
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90 Gnome Rogue
9660
It is so sad to see this happening to you. I believe you would be better off finding a guild with like minded people in it, or at least that enjoy helping one another out.

If the guild you are in can't be bothered to get a group of lowbies together to run through some dungeons with you and help you with learning to tank find one that will.

It will take some looking on your part to find them but there are helpful and friendly people in this game. I would hate to see the community lose a player before they even get to see a tiny fraction of what this game has to offer.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6045
It's too bad that this happened to you.

However, if you really want to see the rest of the dungeon, you could probably solo it, even now. I know this character is a free player, and so I've had a lot of time to accumulate dungeon drops and the like for this level. But I've made no effort to twink-I've just soloed dungeons, starting with the lower level ones and moving on up. I was only able to kill one boss in SFK, but since you've got seven levels on me, you definitely have a shot.

I realize you probably want to move on at this point, and that walking to the Keep as alliance is a pain, but soloing would allow you to see the dungeon, and it helps with learning about your class' abillities-even if it doesn't particularly help with tanking, specifically.

Best of luck in the future!
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90 Draenei Paladin
10315
The quest NPCs in SFK like to hide a lot or are severely slow at getting to their point of quest-giving. There were so many times we ran forward not waiting when that slow walking worgen would go to his position and even wait a few seconds before popping the quest mark above his head.

It's caused us to have to rerun that dungeon many times.

As far as getting punted back to Elwynn, you don't have to leave the dungeon if you are not ready to. If you still have things to do, don't leave the instance group and don't zone out using the dungeon finder icon by the minimap. You should still be able to run through the dungeon to turn in any quests that may need turning in.

I think this is what happened: you missed one of the quest turn-ins at one point. Easy to do, especially after you kill the knight ghosts. That worgen guy stands on top of the railing where you really can't see him and we miss him every time. At that point, you're always one quest behind so when you kill Godfrey, you don't actually have the quest to kill Godfrey until after you kill him and turn in the quest you got for killing the boss before Godfrey.

I am really not a fan of turning in quests and getting quests while in the middle of running the dungeon. Give them all at the beginning. Other players are too pushy and have done it before and assume you have, too, corralling you through the dungeon at their pace and not at the pace you need to do the quests and such.

Basically, I'm saying be aware of quest turn-ins and quest getting on the move through instances. Especially, the instances below level 60 since they've been revamped.
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27 Human Paladin
160
Posting in this forum is a bit buggy: Sometimes I get a post ready, click "Preview," and I end up back at the top of the thread, and my new post has gone to the bitbucket.

Belo - I think I may have found a decent guild with my ret pally. They're mostly all lvl 60+, but there's a few of us lowlifes, and the salts seem very willing to help us out. Sorta makes me wish I was still playing my tankadin ... I'll probably dual-spec when I get to 30, and give another try to tanking with this guild.

Axmillia - it's encouraging to hear you've had some success soloing dungeons at your level. Your ideas are pretty much what I had in mind when I rolled my alt.

Kerasi - your points support my desire to take things slowly, especially in instances. I understand that if this is your fifth or sixth trip through a particular dungeon, you're probably not going to learn much, and you just wanna get it over with. But I haven't been there before, and I'm not gonna learn squat by trying to keep up with you. I guess it's just part of how most people play this game, and you just gotta learn to live with it. But it really drags down the experience for me, anyway, and I suspect a good number of others.

Anyway, thank you all so much for your encouragement. I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel just yet, at least not until I've found my own way to play it. I may end up being a minority of one, but that's fine by me if it works.
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