Open Libram LXVII: Ruh-roh, RET ALERT!

100 Human Paladin
15890
STRENGTH POLEARM:

http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/96621-bo-ris-horror-in-the-night


Ooo, a reason to Xmog the Grand Marshal Pole arm

02/08/2013 04:20 PMPosted by Snozberries
I'll give the game a little more time, but so far I haven't found anything I particularly like about it


Its a bit borring till you get new skills
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20200
02/09/2013 04:15 AMPosted by Hafleur
GC said rets don't use SoJ anyway so they've been running around without a snare in PVP so it's okay to force them into BoG? That doesn't sound right. I kind of wonder how many rets even knew about SoJ then lol. When SoJ was 100% lots of rets didn't know it existed (because it sucked for years lol). How many knew it was a 50% snare in MoP?

Cayse is right that you don't see SoJ all that often in BG's, and we know teammates usually brings the snares in arena, but I still don't trust Blizzard's data. Twenty percent of high-end arena Rets use Repentance? Yea, okay, lol.


If they're using datamining, specifically (and I really hope they aren't) using the spec stats site, it has very obvious flaws that you can see just by looking at how many 2200+ arena tanks that it lists. Hint; it's a lot. Because it just picks up what they logged out as. Ret does some 2200+ arena, then goes to a raid, switches to repentance for it, logs out after. Did he use repent for arena? Really probably not.

Was some minor build change on PTR overnight, but the new justice still isn't working correctly. It stacks, but isn't consumed.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
I spent my honor on a Battlemaster's trinket to win a forum argument and then accidentally disenchanted my upgraded burst trinket. Now I don't have the honor to buy a new one. I think there's a lesson in there somewhere...

02/09/2013 12:54 PMPosted by Cayse
If they're using datamining, specifically (and I really hope they aren't) using the spec stats site, it has very obvious flaws that you can see just by looking at how many 2200+ arena tanks that it lists. Hint; it's a lot. Because it just picks up what they logged out as. Ret does some 2200+ arena, then goes to a raid, switches to repentance for it, logs out after. Did he use repent for arena? Really probably not.

I dearly hope their methods are a little more sophisticated, but that comment got me wondering.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
dbl post
Edited by Hafleur on 2/9/2013 1:23 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20200
Ticket an item restore, it has to have a GM look at it because it was disenchanted. I've done it a few times accidentally. Fat-fingering a gear swap during combat actually caused me to DE my tier gloves a while back. :|

I'm fairly certain that they have more sophisticated data gathering methods, but when they say things that are backable by a stat website that even many of the people who use it can be forced into admitting it gives flawed data.. always gives me a bit of worry.

Some rets may take it and just not really use it. Ret/rogue 2's may just not need FoJ. And how many rets are there for them to look at, if they're only looking at 2200+? I don't really know what the EU brackets look like, but on US there are very, very few.
100 Draenei Paladin
17330
Was going to try and squeeze another Challenge Mode session in today, but people have lives evidently so I guess it'll be tomorrow.

I regret not getting to DPS in my Challenge Mode group but it has given me a renewed appreciation in Tanking.

Tanking in Challenge Modes is actually active and fun, where as to me in a normal dungeon or normal raid setting (in my experience, no offense to full time Tank peoples) it's rather dull.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 2/9/2013 1:31 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
02/09/2013 01:07 PMPosted by Cayse
Ticket an item restore, it has to have a GM look at it because it was disenchanted. I've done it a few times accidentally. Fat-fingering a gear swap during combat actually caused me to DE my tier gloves a while back. :|

haha that's probably a good idea, but I might just grind it. I'm gonna do BG's anyway just because.

02/09/2013 01:07 PMPosted by Cayse
Some rets may take it and just not really use it. Ret/rogue 2's may just not need FoJ. And how many rets are there for them to look at, if they're only looking at 2200+? I don't really know what the EU brackets look like, but on US there are very, very few.

Yea, that thought crossed my mind as well. What high rated Rets are there really this season? Maybe one here and there who barely broke 2.2k on the back of a BM Hunter.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20200
Exactly. And the armory pvp ladders are also unreliable as well, so god help us if those are the source.

Stormstrike has three rets in 3v3 who are "2200+." Of the three, one is 1000, just holding the team, one is 863, and one is 2204 as the only player on his 3's, is 2207 in RBG, and 2034 in 2's. He looks like someone who was trying to make it in 2's and then just got carried in 3's and RBG. Obviously, Stormstrike isn't very good, but it's average.. nearly all the battlegroups look like that.

And that pattern continues for every battlegroup.. there's one or two legitimate 2200+ rets per battlegroup, the rest are holy and have ret gear just because they're out of stuff to spend points on, or are holy for pvp and ret for pve.

Going through every BG, looking only at 2200 paladins, ruling out any that are alone on the team regardless of their rating if the team is just a hair over 2200, ruling out ones that the armory just looks wrong (missing enchants or things like that).. This is what is left;

Cyclone 2 (Vanguard's, he transferred here for R1, and Tau)
Vengeance 2 (Retardamage and Luminant, many of us know of Lum (they used to post around here), and Retardamage I have seen at high ratings in other seasons)
Bloodlust 1 (Bubblistz, I'm ruling that the KFC teams are KFC, not war/hunter/ret and that Phantomwhite is actually holy based on his gear)
Stormstrike 1, MAYBE. This one is really questionable to me, but may also be legitimate. I list it because it is that close to the line, where the ones on other servers are much more obvious.

Emberstorm, Nightfall, Rampage, Reckoning, Retaliation, Ruin, Vindication, Whirlwind, and Sargeras all have none. Either literally none, many of those have no rets even over 1900, or every team over 2200 is a very obvious buy/carry (the ret is in just awful gear yet has a 2/2 T2 weapon), is a teamholder at 1000 rating on a 2200+ team, or is running a very obvious holy paladin comp.

The EU ladders are pretty much the same, where the top end on nearly every BG is well into 2500, filtering to ret drops the top end on many to sub-2k, but there are another half dozen what appear to be legitimate high rated rets. (By which basically I mean at least half the gear being 2/2, no missing gems, no honor gear at this point in the season. Basically if they don't look pretty close to this; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/razuvious/%D0%A0%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0/advanced I have serious doubt to the notion they got their rating legitimately or got it as ret)

Are we basing pvp representation of high ranked paladins based on ten people? And really, every damn one of those ones that look 100% legit... Fist of justice on all but one. He has burden.
Edited by Cayse on 2/9/2013 3:25 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
wow, nice research. you should post that in the ptr thread, even if it's just a link to the post here. it's a really good point and you've actually proved it. of course we know foj is usually better than bog in arena, and yet the devs think otherwise. of course we know repentance is utter garbage for ret pvp, and yet the devs somehow, someway think some of us use it

i wish they would open their eyes and question their methods. i wonder if they dont realize ret has only one tier 15 option. i wonder if they think some (smart) rets actually use sacred shield instead of selfless healer. unbreakable spirit. etc
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20200
If you want, you can just repost it in there. There's rambly parts that can probably be cut. The question is really "who are they basing this off of" because they say they are basing it off high rated rets, or they are looking at some kind of stats that they mine.

Problem is that there really are so few rets playing at those high levels, how much of a sample size can they have?
100 Human Paladin
13030
02/09/2013 07:12 PMPosted by Lobster
I AM THE TERROR THAT SCUTTLES IN THE NIGHT


I AM THE BARNACLE YOU CAN'T SCRAPE OFF YOUR HULL

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101076/quotes
100 Draenei Paladin
18380
Hell no, I'm Batman. You can be.. um.. Superman. :P

I AM THE TERROR THAT SCUTTLES IN THE NIGHT


Wouldn't you be more of a Batlobster? Batlob? Batster? Bobster?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
I still want my damn snare. 60sec HoJ sure sucks when you're in the thick of things and realize you can't control your enemy for another 20-something seconds. Light give me Shockwave.

The worst part is he gave not the slightest hint of a justification, it was just tacked on the end, "oh yeah, it doesn't snare anymore". Why? To what end? Was there some problem with Ret having a baseline snare? The answer is: of course not, don't be silly.
100 Draenei Paladin
18380
The worst part is he gave not the slightest hint of a justification, it was just tacked on the end, "oh yeah, it doesn't snare anymore". Why? To what end? Was there some problem with Ret having a baseline snare? The answer is: of course not, don't be silly.


His answer was something on the lines of, 'you don't get a dps boost and a snare that applies so easily at the same time.' Which doesn't make a ton of sense, considering it's basically Glyph of Seal of Truth changed into a seal.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
02/09/2013 07:56 PMPosted by Snozberries
His answer was something on the lines of, 'you don't get a dps boost and a snare that applies so easily at the same time.' Which doesn't make a ton of sense, considering it's basically Glyph of Seal of Truth changed into a seal.

What other melee loses DPS for a snare?

Monks if their target slips away, that's it. Nobody else has to sacrifice a talent for basic functionality, either, and we need talents for snares and gap closers.
100 Draenei Paladin
18380
Actually, here's his quote on the matter:
(Having a passive snare for Ret that's available all the time with no damage trade-off is just not something we're going to do. Why not just apply a snare when you enter PvP at that point?)


I suppose his logic is that the burst will offset the amount of control we lose when on a target. But the last sentence still doesn't make much sense to me, considering a ret actually has to work just to get to their target.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]