Open Libram LXVII: Ruh-roh, RET ALERT!

90 Human Paladin
15265
Well they're yellow disks of light, they're very appealing for paladins.

They dont quite say "Danger!" like fire on the floor does.
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Not even 90~100k damage packets say "Danger!" to mages, apparently. Ice Blocking lunatics - can't do da deeps while frozen!
90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
i remember killing that when the healing darkmoon card had that awful graphic, where when ever a paladin used light of dawn with a proc you had a massive glowing cone that obscured everything on the floor.

it took me forever to figure out the trick to dodging attenuation though, it takes practice.
90 Draenei Paladin
17760
Just pulling something from another post I made on a ptr thread:
Since the proc does not work on TV, that's a ~5/6 period to activate procs. Which comes to ~20% weapon damage per proc. If they had simply left SoJ as it is on live and increased it to ~18-20% weapon damage, it would have given more consistent pressure without opening massive gaps in pressure or sacrificing control.

During a normal rotation with the reworked Seal of Justice, Inquisition refreshes are naturally going to waste a full round of the debuff. Being generous and assuming full uptime, that's ~3 TVs for every 1 Inq. That would put the average weapon damage at 15%, with 3/4th of Holy Power usage going to TV. That's a dps downgrade from the current iteration of SoJ, and makes our pressure worse during both an Inquisition refresh period and outside of TV usage.


Am I missing something, or is the current iteration of SoJ really that crappy? The practical implementation seems overly complicated to the point where it's inefficiency only further hurts any sort of viability it may have as a pvp seal.

If they really want SoJ to be the go-to pvp glyph, why don't they either A) just boost the weapon damage on the live version of SoJ or B) cause the stack to automatically pop at 5 stacks rather than requiring TV to pop? In either case, the damage seems nowhere near drastic enough to warrant removing the snare component.

It's like everyone is going "ooo big number!" without realizing that the one extra number is at the cost of a whole bunch of smaller numbers that will likely make SoT even more of a default glyph for pvp.

Moving around when our damage without cooldowns happens is not going to increase our natural pressure that much, because most of our most threatening damage comes from cooldowns. To actually make damage outside of cooldowns threatening, they need to pull it from cooldowns. Ideally GotAK, since it is by far the least exciting cooldown that has a massive impact on our burst.

It would be awesome if they lowered the cooldown and effect of GotAK to 1 minute, took away it's attack damage, and moved that attack damage into our finishers. That would have much more impact than any of the awkward, poorly balanced changes they're trying to do with SoJ.

/rantoff
Edited by Snozberries on 2/15/2013 10:06 AM PST
90 Draenei Paladin
16840
i remember killing that when the healing darkmoon card had that awful graphic,


You shut your face, I miss that graphic. Popping your CD's and making your character literally explode in a blinding flash of Silver was awesome.

02/15/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Snozberries
Just pulling something from another post I made on a ptr thread:


You should post that in GC's personal hangout thread too.

I loose more faith in Blizzard all the time, mostly because they're so snarky and condescending with their changes like they have been with this one and then they end up being hilariously wrong to everyone's detriment.

Later they try to save face by going on about "After testing and feedback we've decided......"

Yeah, sure you did buddy. Sure you did.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 2/15/2013 10:17 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
15265
Yea, when they say "We've received feedback saying this group likes that" I always go to myself "Where did they get this from?"

Like the original DS bonus, I dont recall anyone complaining about Holy Damage TVs, but they change it due to one guy's post?
Edited by Paladinchaz on 2/15/2013 10:22 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
12260
dodging attunement isn't difficult if you've played any video games with projectiles in them. i keep having to remind myself that for many people, this is the first and only video game they play.
90 Draenei Paladin
16840
Deadmines was a great indicator of who was a past gamer.

Mario 101 people! These are the basics.
90 Draenei Paladin
17760
02/15/2013 10:32 AMPosted by Cadenbrie
Mario 101 people! These are the basics.


I was terrible at Mario >_<
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
When the boss is first pulled I use wings, wait til the last 13 seconds and use ES with my trinket and keep using them when it's off cds. I avoid using my GoaK during the initial pull because I rather save it for lust and I'm not sure if it will be back up during the last burn phase. My rotation is 3HPInq, 5hptv, exo, cs, j without wings. With wings its 3hpinq, 5hptv, ES (with the trinket), HoW, Exo, CS, J.

Since it was a pug it was 3 pallies, 2 priests, a druid, and rest I forgot lol. The only buff missing was the attack speed one from DKs or shammies.
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Are you only using ES with CDs up? 'Cause you basically miss a use between Wings. Also, during Wings, J > CS.

...But even that doesn't explain the seemingly low performance (well, maybe the lack of ES, but not likely). What's your DPS on opening burst that you then slide to 55k?

Also, grasping at straws, now, but, latency...? >_>
90 Human Paladin
15265
Gotta say, Sanctified's constant thread spamming of bad ideas on the PTR forum is getting a bit annoying.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
02/15/2013 10:55 AMPosted by Grôgnárd
Are you only using ES with CDs up? 'Cause you basically miss a use between Wings. Also, during Wings, J > CS.


No I use it before AW is up too, there's like a 35 second time difference between ES and AW so i wait until 20 seconds until ES is back up before I use AW for my next burst.

Latency ranges from 70-100 though if I'm laggy I use my wireless tether which provides a little better latency.
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Yeah, I'm stumped; trinket and lack of other VP boosts is the only things I can see that could potentially be the problem. I have a 2/2 LFR Final Orders, which is a really stable and potent trinket, 2/2 of the same helm, 2/2 of the same shoulders...But I don't know why that would cause such a glaring discrepancy between the two of us - especially considering you actually have a lot more strength than I do.

...Wait, did you have food and flask buffs? Just remembered I had those, and was using potions with burst - no pre-pot, though.
90 Human Paladin
15265
This just in

Paladin
- We're worried that we're not going to be able to get the new Seal of Justice on PTR in a good place. We still like the goal of giving Ret more damage outside of their long cooldowns, but Censure just brings a lot of benefits that are going to be hard to reproduce in any kind of "build up to burst" mechanic. When faced with decisions like these where the new design isn't a clear win, we think the right decision is to revert the change. It's possible we could buff Seal of Justice (the 5.1 version) to 20% damage from 16% damage, but overall it would still probably not get much use in PvP.
- However, we haven't given up on the idea of solving Ret's problems of long cooldowns. We are going to try changing the 4pc PvP set bonus to lowering the cooldown on Avenging Wrath by 1 min. This is a set bonus that has worked out pretty well in PvE and would help Ret keep up pressure more frequently without getting to the point of one-shot abilities.


I know the bonus is amazing in PVE on our current set, a lower cooldown AW for PVP is a pretty strong bonus.
Edited by Paladinchaz on 2/15/2013 12:24 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Warrior
15120
02/15/2013 10:13 AMPosted by Cadenbrie
You shut your face, I miss that graphic. Popping your CD's and making your character literally explode in a blinding flash of Silver was awesome.


nuuu, our holy paladin really liked holy avenger for some reason, he would just chain light of dawn with a proc up and the entire raid would die because "AMG MY EYES IT BURNS"

02/15/2013 10:32 AMPosted by Cadenbrie
Deadmines was a great indicator of who was a past gamer.


bubble and nitros. what mechanics?
90 Draenei Paladin
13095
02/15/2013 10:13 AMPosted by Cadenbrie
i remember killing that when the healing darkmoon card had that awful graphic,


You shut your face, I miss that graphic. Popping your CD's and making your character literally explode in a blinding flash of Silver was awesome.


Nononononono

It was the most HORRIBLE most AWFUL

HORRIBLE

TERRIBLE

EYE-BLINDING
FACEBURNING
IRRITATING THING

EVER


whoever decided to put that graphic in the game needs to quit their job and die in a fire
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
02/15/2013 11:33 AMPosted by Grôgnárd
...Wait, did you have food and flask buffs? Just remembered I had those, and was using potions with burst - no pre-pot, though.


Crap i knew I forgot something. I had the food buff and I didn't feel like using another flask during the middle of the second phase when it ran out because three DPS died from attunements. I'll get some burst pots and see if it increases my dps. I can only use one per fight correct?
90 Draenei Paladin
16840
02/15/2013 12:22 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
I know the bonus is amazing in PVE on our current set, a lower cooldown AW for PVP is a pretty strong bonus.


Oh my.

02/15/2013 12:31 PMPosted by Idoma
"AMG MY EYES IT BURNS"


02/15/2013 12:38 PMPosted by Tailias
whoever decided to put that graphic in the game needs to quit their job and die in a fire


Blasphemers! Silver Wings and Silver Ashbringer was win! Hitting your CD button and being surrounded in a explosion of Silver and coming out of it with those was awesome!

Pffft on your Holy Paladin problems!!!
90 Draenei Paladin
13095
I'm sorry, but wiping on Blade Lord because of a stupid trinket graphic, and subsequently having to drop a Jeeves to grab the mats for a Ghost Iron Dragonling with Spirit/Mastery/Crit cogs so that I wouldn't blind my !@#$%^- raid when we're healing back up... that was a low point.

It's just totally nonsensical. Why would they design such an amazing trinket to have a horrible downside for absolutely no reason?

Sorry, I'm getting angry again. Calm down... calm down... in three or so weeks you're not even healing anymore... the bad graphic is gone... deep breaths...
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]