Open Libram LXVII: Ruh-roh, RET ALERT!

100 Human Paladin
16150
02/08/2013 01:29 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
Considering GC said deal with the changes or we won't do any changes at all it sounds like some kind of punishment.


Hes getting tired of the PVP Ret whining? I dunno

02/08/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Cayse
I also can't help but feel that the removal of the snare from SoJ is basically punishment for all the people whining about not having a snare for the last few years.


Yea I dont get that, they finally give us a passive one, then take it away
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
02/08/2013 01:25 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
Probably but thats a lot of seal twisting and a lot of unoptimal of hopo banking

I meant two stacks of Justice on separate targets. No seal twisting. :)
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
02/08/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Cayse
I also can't help but feel that the removal of the snare from SoJ is basically punishment for all the people whining about not having a snare for the last few years.

How'd you come to that conclusion? If they wanted to punish us for whining over the past few years, they never would have gave Ret a baseline snare in the first place.
100 Human Paladin
13120
i feel like a lot of people playing paladins will whine about not having something that other classes do, and when they get that thing they realize that it isn't a magic bullet that fixes things they don't like about paladins and they complain about having that thing because it's not as good as other things (or something).

it must be terribly frustrating for class design to attempt to appease the community only to have everything they do thrown back at them.

i'm willing to try the new SoJ anyway, because it's probably going to let me hit really hard fairly often and with proper HP management/procs from DP, i'll be able to lay a decent chunk of burst regularly. using BoG will also be fine because i don't honestly stun people every 30 seconds in a fight and the only thing i'll really miss is the range.
100 Human Paladin
16150
02/08/2013 01:43 PMPosted by Martana
i feel like a lot of people playing paladins will whine about not having something that other classes do, and when they get that thing they realize that it isn't a magic bullet that fixes things they don't like about paladins and they complain about having that thing because it's not as good as other things (or something).


I agree, they need to play the class they actually really want to be (mainly Warriors)
100 Draenei Paladin
18195
My main gripe is with what this can do to how we play in PVE, and it looks to have potential to do some really stupid things.

I also really, really hate it when one talent gets made the default right choice 99% of the time.

There's whining and then there's criticism, large difference.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 2/8/2013 2:07 PM PST
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Yeah, I posted a concern about the PvE impact of the Justice change in the PTR pt.2 thread, but I don't think it got seen since I didn't directly quote a Blue.
100 Draenei Paladin
19025
i feel like a lot of people playing paladins will whine about not having something that other classes do, and when they get that thing they realize that it isn't a magic bullet that fixes things they don't like about paladins and they complain about having that thing because it's not as good as other things (or something).

it must be terribly frustrating for class design to attempt to appease the community only to have everything they do thrown back at them.


Eh, I never really saw much comment from players about SoJ. One of GC's comments leads me to believe they based it mostly off an numbers read, that they weren't seeing many rets use it.

The thing is, it was a pretty specific niche to begin with. And one that some players chose to cover with BoG instead.

The thing with the ret community in particular is it's size. There's a big enough player base that there's bound to be some vocal bunch for each and every little nook and cranny of the spectrum. And those nooks don't usually vocalize until their cranny gets changed.

02/08/2013 01:43 PMPosted by Martana
i'm willing to try the new SoJ anyway, because it's probably going to let me hit really hard fairly often and with proper HP management/procs from DP, i'll be able to lay a decent chunk of burst regularly


The iteration will definitely find some usage. Irregardless of a snare or not. Getting a big TV out of it will likely require more than a bit of uptime and tunneling, though.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
The iteration will definitely find some usage. Irregardless of a snare or not. Getting a big TV out of it will likely require more than a bit of uptime and tunneling, though.

It'll take as long as Truth to stack, so not very.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20720
02/08/2013 01:38 PMPosted by Hafleur
I also can't help but feel that the removal of the snare from SoJ is basically punishment for all the people whining about not having a snare for the last few years.

How'd you come to that conclusion? If they wanted to punish us for whining over the past few years, they never would have gave Ret a baseline snare in the first place.


Mostly the tone behind some recent comments. They finally gave in and put in the option for a "real snare" as people were calling it (because giving up the damage from truth, or previously from righteousness when it was good wasn't worth the snare), and then people didn't take that talent, but also still weren't using justice. Most rets really were playing without any kind of snare at all so far this expansion.

Now they take the snare off justice and TAKE BURDEN AND DEAL WITH IT !@#$%ES!
100 Blood Elf Paladin
18460
I'd rather they replace BoG with something else and make SoJ the 'pvp seal' while still snaring. Maybe it's too much, though. Having to spec for basic functions is stupid. Might as well make tanks have to spec for taunt. You know, if they REALLY need a taunt...

Obviously, I don't like the whole 'if you really need a snare' bit. Look, I get that PVP is balanced around group effort. Theoretically, you should have someone that can snare. In RBGs, this might not be that much of a problem, since the coordination is a lot higher than a random PuG. Now, in solo BG queues communication usually revolves around fornicating mothers and the one guy doing nothing reminding everyone else how horrible they are. Personally, it falls under 'if you want something done right...' mentality. OF COURSE I NEED A SNARE.

I dunno, maybe Fist of Justice should be made baseline. And if they want to do something with it in our talent trees, then have it talented to receive a reasonable damage component. Or is smacking someone with justice for 25k too much?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
Mostly the tone behind some recent comments. They finally gave in and put in the option for a "real snare" as people were calling it (because giving up the damage from truth, or previously from righteousness when it was good wasn't worth the snare), and then people didn't take that talent, but also still weren't using justice. Most rets really were playing without any kind of snare at all so far this expansion.

Now they take the snare off justice and TAKE BURDEN AND DEAL WITH IT !@#$%ES!

hahaha

02/08/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Vlada
Having to spec for basic functions is stupid. Might as well make tanks have to spec for taunt. You know, if they REALLY need a taunt...

or tanks have to spec for siege mode!

ignore that. i've been watching way too much SC lately
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20720
Yup that's what I mentioned earlier and what I was worried about. All the rets going zomgthisissustainedbuff.. it's not. Truth does 12% per melee hit, and censure is even more overall (out of a SSM, truth hit 93 times for 170k, and censure ticked 108 times for 487k, full stack ticks are more than double what truth itself is hitting for). Justice is going to be about the same total, simply applied all at once, sort of like a heroic strike tacked onto every one of our TV's, but no dot damage at all. It's at best the same damage, just shifted.
Edited by Cayse on 2/8/2013 3:29 PM PST
100 Draenei Paladin
15260
02/08/2013 03:10 PMPosted by Covahredro
IDK if anyone else has posted this yet but their not just taking the snare, their taking the 16% weapon dmg off too.

Well that's pretty crap. Justice is a good questing/leveling seal because stuff never lives long enough for SoT to build up and SoR hits for bugger all .. maybe it'll be the default questing/leveling seal in 5.2 now it's been buffed by 50%.
Edited by Muletia on 2/8/2013 4:03 PM PST
100 Draenei Paladin
19025
Finally finished downloading Tera. Just out of curiosity, do ~90% of the female armors consist of thongs and high heels? Or is that just a quirk with the starter armor?
100 Human Paladin
16150
02/08/2013 04:09 PMPosted by Snozberries
Finally finished downloading Tera. Just out of curiosity, do ~90% of the female armors consist of thongs and high heels? Or is that just a quirk with the starter armor?


Depends on the class

The "Heavy Armor" classes, usually have the thongs, cleavage for everyone, and the casters; short skirts

I am on the Tempest Reach server btw
Edited by Paladinchaz on 2/8/2013 4:10 PM PST
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Okay, so the SoJ thing looks really ridiculous on paper for PvE. With 4pT15 proc, we're looking at almost 200k as unmitigable Holy damage (generous assumption on extra AP just for swapping out four peices of my current gear) from a single cast of TV before factoring in things like Inq (which would affect both the HolyTV and the SoJTV), Kings, , HoL, APShout, or consumables (flasks/food). Or cooldowns/pots. Fully buffed, we could be looking at sporadic burst packets of well nigh (if not over) 300k, assuming nothing crits - and if the SoJTV can crit, it could be the dominant Seal in PvE once the 4p is acquired.
100 Draenei Paladin
19025
Finally finished downloading Tera. Just out of curiosity, do ~90% of the female armors consist of thongs and high heels? Or is that just a quirk with the starter armor?


Depends on the class

The "Heavy Armor" classes, usually have the thongs, cleavage for everyone, and the casters; short skirts

I am on the Tempest Reach server btw


Sounds like I'll be rolling male toons then. I'm all for enjoying a character's backside, but running around in a thong all the time is embarrassing.

I'll give the game a little more time, but so far I haven't found anything I particularly like about it.
Edited by Snozberries on 2/8/2013 4:21 PM PST
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