Disc 5.3 Changes!

100 Blood Elf Priest
8885
Since it is probably too late to mention or suggest any changes for 5.2, let's move on to 5.3! In all honesty with the current changes and going back in synergy for stat and spell use, Disc will probably need another overhaul in 5.3 because of the 5.2 changes. My suggestions to put Disc in a balanced position that does a better job with stat and spell synergy.

1. Bump BT to 25%, but have it not affect power word shield. This would encourage power word shield weaving which sounds like what the devs want. That will never happen until PWS have some kind of synergy with our other spells that it doesn't with itself. Until that, PWS will be used either for rapture returns or spamming depending on mana cost and power of the spell.

2. *edited* Have Binding Heal stack grace. Grace has the same competing issue with AA that many of our spells do since they don't interact with eachother. Single target heals are terrible on non-graced targets, but keeping Grace up on anyone other than the tank is a losing effort. Binding Heal is also sub-par with Disc and has no interaction with our talents, this fixes that and allows grace to be a much less hated ability with the glyph putting it on a 3rd low health target.

3. Make DA last 10 seconds.

4. Have Renew give 100% DA similar to PoH now. This would give us a "cheap" spell to spot shield/heal before incoming damage or to keep DA refreshed on a target past the 10sec duration. This is a spell hardly used besides throwing at a tank if they are 100% and taking heavy damage.

5. PoM - Same as renew for the same reasons. This may not be needed as we still use PoM often, but it is a way to get mastery more involved beyond the all or nothing nature it will become in 5.2. It also has the same affect as renew in keeping up DAs though obviously random in nature. Still it would probably put PoM more on par with holy.

6. Add Binding Heal to list of spells that can be used with SS. With the glyph that would be more of a 10 man change, but with a nerfed PoH, there will be times where this would be preferable to either a single heal or PoH.

An example might be any spread out fight where PoH won't hit 3+ targets or parasitic growth on Amber-Shaper where a shield won't prevent all damage before being used up to prevent smart heals from putting extra strain on the target.

7. Change Rapture return to a flat rate.

8. Have Grace affect PWS.

The idea isn't so much to buff Disc though it would probably lead to that somewhat, but to give Disc synergy with shield instead of it being competing and more options for random/aoe dmg. PoH is either too good on 4-5 targets or in situations where finding a group with 4-5 targets is easier such as 25 man or really bad when there is only 2-3 targets. PoH in 5.1 is too powerful and needed nerfs, but Disc doesn't have other options to heal.

While I like PoH and the "skill" it takes to find the correct person to use as the epicenter, that's only fun if it's an option. Right now PoH is always the right answer if it hits 2 or more and in 5.2, it will probably only be the right answer if it hits 4+. Both situations don't give you an alternative to PoH, you are tied to it for better or worse. This needs to be fixed moving forward.

Feeback appreciated as the thing I am most upset about with 5.2 is breaking the synergy mastery has a stat and it going back to awesome for PWS spam, terrible for everything else. We need more spell interaction and synergy if Disc is going to get to a point where changes aren't needed every patch.
Edited by Taihou on 2/1/2013 4:36 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
11430
Can't we at least wait to SEE how the 5.2 changes (which haven't even been set in stone) impact us before proposing another rework?
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
8885
We have done this rodeo before. They are set in stone at this point most likely. There may be tweaks after 5.2 hits if Disc does worse than expected, but I would bet on nothing major being changed before 5.2 live.

The reason for the proposal is the negative impact that 5.2 has on the mechanics side of the class. The class needs more synergy and less competing spells in a bad way or it will lead to the constant find the best spell at the time, PWS or PoH and spam it. While there are arguments about AA, it's current iteration is probably the best thing about Disc. It gives us an efficient spot heal so we don't rely on a broken mechanic like grace and allows us to proactively time for burst healing.

Actually that does make me realize they took binding heal off grace. That would be a good addition to give additional worth to binding heal especially with the glyph. The class needs to be less fragmented.
Edited by Taihou on 2/1/2013 12:54 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Priest
11895
5.2 is probably going to launch around March, so I do still think there's time for quite a few more changes.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
8885
02/01/2013 03:01 PMPosted by Skootalloo
5.2 is probably going to launch around March, so I do still think there's time for quite a few more changes.


I hope you are correct on both accounts. I am not really arguing against the current changes as something needed to be done. However, as is, the class needs additional changes to bring some synergy between spells. The two easiest would probably be binding heal on grace and borrowed time slightly increased and not affect subsequent shield casts. If that is done, you can make mana costs for shield cheaper without being so worried everyone will spam it to the exclusion of all else.
Edited by Taihou on 2/1/2013 7:09 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
9855
Considering the Patch for the PTR has changed about 3 times in a week, I dont think anything is set in stone as of now
Reply Quote
100 Undead Priest
16980
02/01/2013 12:21 PMPosted by Icecreamsoup
Can't we at least wait to SEE how the 5.2 changes (which haven't even been set in stone) impact us before proposing another rework?


No need. The current round of 5.2 changes makes Disc unplayable in 25man Heroics for anything but gimmicks.

If Disc waits until 5.2 to go live, the class will be dead and unplayable for progression content.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Priest
16980
02/01/2013 06:30 PMPosted by Shammyren
Considering the Patch for the PTR has changed about 3 times in a week, I dont think anything is set in stone as of now


People say this every patch... and then every patch the most untested changes go live and leave a class either overpowered or crippled... at which point Blizzard hotfixes said class leaving them either overpowered or crippled until the next round of overblown nerfs/buffs.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Priest
13955
02/01/2013 06:50 PMPosted by Poena
Can't we at least wait to SEE how the 5.2 changes (which haven't even been set in stone) impact us before proposing another rework?


No need. The current round of 5.2 changes makes Disc unplayable in 25man Heroics for anything but gimmicks.

If Disc waits until 5.2 to go live, the class will be dead and unplayable for progression content.


Sorry, no.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
6860
02/01/2013 06:50 PMPosted by Poena
Can't we at least wait to SEE how the 5.2 changes (which haven't even been set in stone) impact us before proposing another rework?


No need. The current round of 5.2 changes makes Disc unplayable in 25man Heroics for anything but gimmicks.

If Disc waits until 5.2 to go live, the class will be dead and unplayable for progression content.

Holy melodrama, Batman. I mean, wow.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Priest
16980


No need. The current round of 5.2 changes makes Disc unplayable in 25man Heroics for anything but gimmicks.

If Disc waits until 5.2 to go live, the class will be dead and unplayable for progression content.


Sorry, no.


Sorry yes.
In the current PTR incantation Disc has no AoE heal of note that isn't on Cooldown. Prayer of heal is trash without DA. Even Ghostcrawler said it that we are supposed to AoE heal with SS+PoH and IF+PoH and then "heal" players back up with PoH. I'm not sure if anyone is aware, but PoH hits for 30k per person... a 5 person party only non-smart heal for 30k each. Raid buffed I'm around 430k HP, making PoH heal for 1/14th of my total health. Now compare that to every other class who has spammable and low CD AoE heals which hit like a truck compared to our "heal".

TLDR; Disc will not be able to heal in an environment which has heavy AoE that comes more often than once a minute... which is nearly every fight in 25mans.

02/01/2013 07:00 PMPosted by Fistlobster


No need. The current round of 5.2 changes makes Disc unplayable in 25man Heroics for anything but gimmicks.

If Disc waits until 5.2 to go live, the class will be dead and unplayable for progression content.

Holy melodrama, Batman. I mean, wow.


Holy Ignorance, batman. I mean, wow.
Edited by Poena on 2/1/2013 7:07 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
8885
This is the most retarded thread i have ever seen.

Anything other than nerfs to disc are not going to bring about 'balance'.


This is taking into account the 5.2 nerfs, some of which I suggested are further nerfs like 10 sec DA. Not going to comment further unless you actually read and don't blindly post.

Also while the title is in jest, I don't have hopes for any significant changes happening on the PTR. This isn't a thread about the viability of 5.2 Disc as is on the PTR, but how to fix issues with the class present and made worse by 5.2 changes. Disc needs more spell interaction and better stat design to help temper excessive single spell use.
Edited by Taihou on 2/1/2013 7:26 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Priest
13955
02/01/2013 07:07 PMPosted by Poena
Sorry yes.


I accept that you feel frustrated and powerless, but I disagree with your opinion.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Shaman
15790
You aren't very good at reading comprehension are you?

Mum says I'm good.

02/01/2013 07:16 PMPosted by Taihou
This isn't a thread about the viability of 5.2 Disc as is on the PTR, but how to fix issues with the class present and made worse by 5.2 changes.

I am completely aware of this, but it was always going to happen. But the second part of the sentence here is what throws me. Disc has no issues. Its the most powerful spec in the game right now relative to its competitors. Disc is to healers what Arcane mages and Aff locks are to dps, but multiplied by about 2-2.5.

If you're talking mechanics, Disc have few issues, and very few of the suggestions actually deal with mechanics changes.
Disc are, historically, a single target healer. With the change to Binding Heal in 5.2, they have a more efficient way to heal 3 targets without just mindlessly PoHing. Binding Heal stacking grace might be okay, but only on the direct heal portion. Grace as a mechanic is something that should be consciously stacked, which is why Disc's AoE and multi-target do not stack it. If you're suggesting that Grace should be stacked by AoE, then we run into the issue of Grace becoming a major mechanic of Disc in that Disc priests are attempting to stack and maintain Grace on as many targets as possible, and that doesn't sound like fun. I think Grace is fine and the Binding Heal change addresses some of those mechanics problems.

02/01/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Taihou
Have Grace affect PWS

Would be overpowered, sorry.

02/01/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Taihou
Add Binding Heal to list of spells that can be used with SS.

Nice idea, but again, Binding Heal will be a smart heal come 5.2. The idea of Spirit Shell as I understand it from the Dev's POV is it is something consciously stacked and controlled. Where does the smart heal come into this? If someone is lower than the others and you are Spirit Shelling, do they get the Binding Heal shell, or is it random? What if the low health person eats all the shields, gets topped up and then others take huge damage?

02/01/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Taihou
Change Rapture return to a flat rate.

It will be in 5.2. A percentage of Spirit.

You shouldn't use Renew as Disc. I wish people would stop. It should be Holy only, really.

DA nerf to 10seconds makes no sense. DA rarely drops off in a scenario where it is required currently, and I don't see that change having it happen more frequently. It's either eaten or never needed.

02/01/2013 07:16 PMPosted by Taihou
Disc needs more spell interaction and better stat design to help temper excessive single spell use.


That is the style of the spec. If you want huge multi-target, you should be playing holy. While its a bit of a relic from old design, Disc maintains many remnants from the days were it was single target all day, every day.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Shaman
15790
I accept that you feel entitled and powerless, but I disagree with your opinion.


I fixed that for you, but otherwise I agree.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Priest
13955
02/01/2013 07:35 PMPosted by Convictfish
Would be overpowered, sorry.


Actually, I don't think having Grace affect PW:Shield would be overly powerful. Nor do I think it's accurate to say that we've historically been single target healers unless by historically you mean we were originally designed as...

Disc has been a powerful raid healer for the past two expansions and is a great single target support with things like PW:Shield and Atonement, but just isn't in a spot where it's a better choice than say Resto Sham/H Pally for dedicated tank healing.
Reply Quote
02/01/2013 06:54 PMPosted by Elethia
Sorry, no.


Can I has your stuff? I mean, since you will be dead and all.

<3
Edited by Morenn on 2/1/2013 7:46 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Priest
13955
You'll just have to cast Resurrect, Morenn. :3
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]