MW stat priority if missing spell haste buff

Nearly every guide I have read repeats essentially the same information. Spirit until comfy>haste until ~3148 while in Stance of the Fierce Tiger>Int>Crit>Mastery>Haste.

Focusing on the haste portion, the number represents a breakpoint for 2 extra ticks of renewing mists. With or without the haste buff, one needs a total of 16.6% haste to get that extra tick.

The other spells which could benefit from haste are enveloping mist, with breakpoints at 8.29%, and 24.92% and Zen Sphere (which I don't use) with breakpoints at 6.24% and 18.73%.

So the mathmagicians have figured out the sweet spot is aiming for the second tick of renewing mists. I have little doubt that their calculations are correct.

But for nearly every 10 man I've run, I've NEVER had spell haste buff present. I've even had runs with THREE hunters, and NO SPELL HASTE. As an aside, hunters, keep a spore bat at the ready.

I know in 25s you're likely to have either a spriest, boomchicken or ele. But in 10s spell haste buff that seems consistently missing. Expanding spell haste to other classes is a subject for a different thread, and there are plenty.

Since we have fixed GCD and the ability to layer in instant cast spells to our main channeled spell, haste has next to zero value to us, other than those ticks.

Without the spell haste buff, it feels impossible to get to the second break point, at least without doing something that feels really stupid, like losing too much spirit. I already feel like I am running on fumes.

My hybrid question/statement is, I guess the best thing to do is reforge to the first haste breakpoint, followed by crit. With my current gear, if I proceed with that reforge strategy, I will trade about 7.6% of haste, which is essentially worthless without the spell haste raid buff, for an additional 3.4% crit. The net effect on mastery would be negligible, as I would mainly be changing mastery-to-haste reforges to mastery-to-crit reforges. I mention this because healing spheres from gift of the serpent still make up some 8-10% of my total healing, even after having reforged mastery to either haste or crit.

How are other mistweavers reforging their gear for groups where there is no spell buff?

Thanks for your thoughts. Extra points for people with actual experiential information.

And yes, it will all change come 5.2%.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7800
You have to keep going for haste then. Its unfortunate.
I think if you have a hunter one of their pets can give spell haste too.
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Yes, spore bats give spell haste (So go get them hunters!).
The issue is, without a frost dk or rogue, I think you end up missing another important buff, attack speed.

Congrats on your new hat, Dåisuke!
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12775
I think you'd be better off going for the breakpoint assuming no 5% haste buff (4719). It's only about 1600 more haste and I don't think you would lose much spirit to get that. Try setting it on wowreforge and specify the haste breakpoint and preferred spirit - maybe 9k? And then reset the default priorities for higher crit/spirit and lower mastery. I'm not sure why they have the numbers they do by default, but meh, it's easy to change.

If, however, you don't get numbers you like with this method, then I'd prioritize crit. Thing is, if you decide 1st tick of enveloping mist is all you need to go for, you actually will have a lot of wasted haste because your gear won't allow you to decrease it that much - even if you swap out the spirit/haste gems to spirit/crit. As far as I know, excess haste isn't all that useful except for faster ticks on soothing mist and crackling jade lightning. Your usage of those determines whether that's worth it or not.
Edited by Habreberry on 2/6/2013 11:12 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12775
Oh, the one week we didn't have the spell haste buff I whined and cried the whole time ;)

It actually did feel harder to heal, but my numbers weren't significantly lower. I just noticed my Renewing Mists weren't as good on the charts as normal and mana was used up more. I think maybe spell priority needs to change if you aren't getting those optimal stat priorities.
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90 Pandaren Monk
tlc
15535
If you will consistently not have 5% spell haste, go to 1578 haste for one extra tick and dump the rest into crit. If you don't realistically get that low, Enveloping mists has a breakpoint at 2348. 5%ish crit on all spells compared to 2-3% overall healing from haste; you end up trading a little bit of consistent healing for more burst potential and mana regen(overall healing will be roughly the same).

Until I started to get haste drops, I had swapped into as many crit pieces as a I could and reforged out of haste. I do raid with the spell haste buff, but having spent over a month healing all of normals and a few of the early heroic bosses with the same set up you won't feel anywhere near gimped dropping down to +1 and getting crit instead.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
11690

Without the spell haste buff, it feels impossible to get to the second break point, at least without doing something that feels really stupid, like losing too much spirit. I already feel like I am running on fumes.


The issue of running without the spell haste buff aside. I have less spirit than you, mossiby worse gear and I run INT flask over SPR with further progression in 10mans exlusively and even though towards the end of the fight I do not have mana to hand out I would hardly say I run on fumes.

You might want to re-evaluate your healing strategy and this should allow you to move some more spirit into haste if you desire the extra tick so much.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430

Without the spell haste buff, it feels impossible to get to the second break point, at least without doing something that feels really stupid, like losing too much spirit. I already feel like I am running on fumes.


I've been running at the 2nd enveloping (with spell haste-5378) break point which is even higher since 5.1 as I often spend time healing the tanks in our set-up. I only have real OMG mana moments when things go sideways, I botch my mt usage, or I'm trying to push too much dps. Even then it is generally a case of pop my alch rejuve and slack a bit until mt is off cd or holler for a hymn. Since we have similar gear and are doing pretty much the same content I have to think that something is going wrong with your/your raid's performance if you are constantly having mana problems at the 4800ish break point.
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90 Pandaren Monk
13675
If you don't have any hybrid caster or a hunter in your raid, then you really have raid comp issues.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12775
02/08/2013 08:56 AMPosted by Komakino
If you don't have any hybrid caster or a hunter in your raid, then you really have raid comp issues.
My guess is he doesn't have a regular group and pugs - or they pug half the raid. Whenever I pug on my priest, there's always an issue with buffs... and hunters too lazy to have all the pet types. The other night, there was a group with the opposite problem. They needed 2 healers, but already had 3 priests in the raid. Spell haste wasn't missing but I'll bet several others were.
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Thanks for the replies. A few comments:

It's difficult, not impossible, to cover all raid buffs in 10 slot. In our situation, the hunter does have a spore bat, which leaves us missing attack speed, which he could bring from a serpent or hyena. If our windwalker monk were only a rogue instead. Anyways, we have a mix of players that can cover them all, in some encounters.

I compared a recent log from Eightysix versus one of mine for Stone Guard 10N. (Eightysix's group had Jasper. Ours had Amethyst. Slightly different) Eightysix's HPS(e) was about 56,000. Compared that to my HPS(e) of about 36,000. So exceptionally better numbers for the same encounter.

So what were the differences? Well probably just plain better execution. Using the best ability at the ideal time. But aside from that, there are some other key differences.

Looking at mana regeneration, much better mana tea generation/consumption.

Looking at Eightysix's healing, renewing mists, uplift and eminence were the top three healing abilities, in that order. For me, the top three heals were renewing mist, chi wave and soothing mist. Eminence was essentially zero.

There are a few other differences worth mentioning. I did 12 dispels versus 1 for Eightysix. Dispels can drain mana. But really that is off the subject.

So here's the take away for me. I'm doing it wrong. I'm need to be in melee. I need to have better management of mana tea. Eightysix is spec'd into ascension, where I have chi brew. Of course, ascension only helps you if you're generating chi, which is something I'm not doing that well. But fixing that, I think ascension has some advantages. I know the math favors chi brew in terms of total mana tea generation. Further it gives you some on-demand, at-the-ready chi. But unless you are using chi brew on every cool down and you have zero chi when you use it, it likely delivers lower real world performance.

So less soothing mists, better use of renewing mists, uplift and thunder focus tea. Making sure I am in melee and optimizing eminence. All should help. Thanks for the feedback.
Edited by Donsy on 2/10/2013 10:44 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
I'd actually drop as much haste as possible at your gear level, into more crit and spirit since having haste over an RM breakpoint proves to be detrimental to spreading RM efficiently. The breakpoint really isn't a huge deal, it just makes RM last as long as possible.
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Thanks Kungfuwaifu. I've got a few things to work on. Better execution and prioritization. I want to play around with 1 or 2 extra tick vs. crit. And all of this is about to change.

Congratulations Kungfuwaifu on your #1 spot on Amber-Shaper 10N and #2 on Garalon 10H.
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