Paladin shields flying under the radar?

80 Tauren Druid
2115
Because of Disc SS.

I think in 5.2 we are going to see Paladins absolutely crushing other healers, as disc is now. Because Paladins get a reliable shield, that can account for 30% of their healing currently. And without Disc to get in the way, that % will go up.
Edited by Zasshu on 2/6/2013 8:59 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
7415
Disc will make up some of the absorb lost from DA procs from POH with our bubbles being cheaper. We won't be able to bubble spam the entire 10 man team but I believe we will bubble spam 1 group and save inner focus/POH for the other. Then have SS for the next burst.

I'm curious to see if pally absorbs will outpace us in 5.2 but I actually doubt it.

In regards to Pallys, I don't really believe disc 5.2 will have much if any bearing on the strength of Pallys in regards to meters just because the nature of absorbs are much less likely to overheal. So I don't believe disc in a group with a pally suppressed their healing as much.
Edited by Gandhisfist on 2/6/2013 9:24 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10215
No, they aren't flying under any radars. Do you really think blizz doesn't see EVERY HOLY PALADIN gearing for spirit mastery and having a good chunk of their heals come from that secondary?

Honestly, I don't think you understand how our shields work comapared to a Disc Priest's DA/SS/PW:S. Our shields are a buffer on the raid, not a brick wall that stops all incoming damage. It is nigh impossible to cap out a shield on every raid member in combat. Raid buffed I'm around 35% mastery, which means 35% of most of my heals convert to a shield that last 15s. Even cheesing things with EF to keep the shield up it is pretty rare to see more than 1-2 raid memebers with a fully capped IH shield.

What exactly do you think the problem is? Do you really think we holding back other healers with our mastery?
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90 Orc Shaman
10495
Illuminated Healing is no where close to being as ridiculous as current Disc shielding is.

Paladins have no Spirit Shell mechanic that lets them turn pure healing into pure shielding, which is part of what makes Disc so strong right now as they can use SS to nullify huge ammounts of damage in boss fights. Paladins can not do such a feat as they really don't have the mechanics to pre-shield a raid sustaintably, with how limited HR and LoD are compared to PoH spam.

Their absorbs are solid, but certainly not OP levels right now. If Shaman mastery was quantified as a separate source from our main heals, it would probably be on similar levels as Illuminated healings when shown on recount.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
02/06/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Zasshu
I think in 5.2 we are going to see Paladins absolutely crushing other healers,


Not sure why you think it would show itself any differently next patch. It currently makes up 20-25% of palading healing currently, at least in 25 man, so it shouldn't really change that much next patch. If anything it is going to go down as once the t14 set bonus is gone you won't be able to EF blanket as much. Just my opinion though.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Paladin healing in 10 mans is quite strong relative to other-non-Disc healers. So perhaps a nerf on those grounds alone.

That being said.

Illuminated healing isn't doing the "burst damage prevention" that SSh is doing. Illuminated Healing isn't trivializing unseen strike, rain of blades, dissonance fields exploding, run away, elegon protectors heroic 3-target soak nuke, feng arcane/quake phases. The pre-shielding potential just isn't there.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
VEX
10945
I haven't looked at raw data much recently, but with EF rolling, paladin shield absorption rate is really, really high. Shields commonly have lifespans of 40+ seconds. I don't anticipate seeing many different results in 5.2.
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90 Human Rogue
6900
I don't think they have done a balance pass yet, but I do think that some tweaks are in order, or will come quite fast once pally healers start obliterating the meters in 5.2. Mastery scales *so* much better than other secondaries :|
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90 Undead Priest
16470
02/06/2013 05:33 PMPosted by Sórrow
I don't think they have done a balance pass yet, but I do think that some tweaks are in order, or will come quite fast once pally healers start obliterating the meters in 5.2. Mastery scales *so* much better than other secondaries :|


They've never done a balance pass. Blizzard doesn't test any Disc Priest numbers or healing and have always overnerfed us or overbuffed us.

Blizzard is scrambling right now because of the place they put Disc Priests with the buffs they gave us in ~November. The result will be us being bottom of the barrel for the rest of the expansion because we now no longer have a way to heal. Blizzard should have made these changes to Disc before MoP launched, instead they are doing a half assed job and gutting our only AoE heal without providing us any alternatives.

And yes. Holy Paladin's are going to be doing as much if-not-more output through absorbs than Disc Priests in 5.2 while providing more utility and more raw healing output.
Edited by Poena on 2/6/2013 10:42 PM PST
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90 Gnome Priest
17125
Paladin shields are pretty OP right now. You should look into top paladin logs. On a lot of fights they can be crazy good. Paladins are THE only class that can actually compete with a disc priest in 25m's since the nerf to monks. But not on every fight.

The thing I hate about illuminated healing the most is how good it is on singletarget. You can mostly tank heal as a paladin and do almost as much as the other raid healers because of IH.
Edited by Zolvolt on 2/6/2013 11:38 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
16520
Holy Pallies have received virtually no attention in 5.2 in PvE. No significant buffs or nerfs, and I've not even see any commentary on our new set bonuses (which are one of the few things about the class that outright suck).

I think there are two plausible reasons (which aren't entirely contradictory): Blizzard think we're fine, and that we're flying under the radar.
Edited by Tarski on 2/6/2013 11:49 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8030
02/06/2013 09:17 AMPosted by Glorÿ
Honestly, I don't think you understand how our shields work comapared to a Disc Priest's DA/SS/PW:S. Our shields are a buffer on the raid, not a brick wall that stops all incoming damage. It is nigh impossible to cap out a shield on every raid member in combat. Raid buffed I'm around 35% mastery, which means 35% of most of my heals convert to a shield that last 15s. Even cheesing things with EF to keep the shield up it is pretty rare to see more than 1-2 raid memebers with a fully capped IH shield.


This is the difference between paladin and disc absorbs. The way our healing is tuned, it is nowhere near optimal play to cap out IH shields on any significant portion of the raid. Our mana and holy power is much better spent actually healing, with IH just being a bonus. Is it strong? Yes! Is it balance breaking like disc currently is? Not even close.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5830
Because of Disc SS.

I think in 5.2 we are going to see Paladins absolutely crushing other healers, as disc is now. Because Paladins get a reliable shield, that can account for 30% of their healing currently. And without Disc to get in the way, that % will go up.


You definitely have a misunderstanding. Think of our spellbook as Paladins in comparison to a Priest. I can't spam a huge heal that hits five targets within 40 yards that is not only a large heal, a large shield AND also benefits from mastery. Paladins are quite different from Discipline Priests, even though our mastery creates a shield as well. When I'm healing, I have a 100% shield (roughly 33% of my total health) on the tank... Pre-pull. That's it. If you're healing enough to have a full shield on anyone at any time, you're overhealing the hell out of people, and wasting mana.

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to be hateful. And although I haven't read everyone's responses (when I reply, I read the OP and do so for myself), I don't think you're ignorant or anything like that. Don't worry, no hatred here. I will say one thing about the whole Disc debacle.

A class is a class, and is only as powerful as you make it. Yes, there are performance differences between them all, but personally, I have each healer at 90 (except for Monks - I can't stand their style for some reason), and I think they're all powerful in their own way. It just takes time and experimentation to learn the ways to really get 100% from each one. Do I think the nerfs to Disc are unreasonable? Nope. They're absurdly overpowered in certain situations. Do I think Paladin mastery needs nerfed? I'm sure some will say, "of course not bro, you're a pally." To which I say, you're right! I am a Pali. But we are very different healers. Our AoE heal is basically worthless if spammed, and much more expensive than that of a Priest. We are different, not worse, not better. People have such skewed perceptions of this game.

Any who, I hope my opinion helped at least a little. If not... I'm sorry! Please have a good day, though. Take care!
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90 Troll Priest
10205
I wouldn't say it's only because of there shield, but on most log you have pally right next to disc in both 10 and 25 (if you actually look at the hard version of protector there are way more holy pally than disc priest) yet because there holy pally there not getting any kind of nerf while disc priest are getting one that make them worse than we were in 5.0. It's like holy pally being OP is just normal, there were OP for most of cars, they were doing very good since the start MoP they were almost mandatory in LK for tank healing.

It's just so weird the difference in reaction, priest spec does better than most: "OMG nerf them NOW" H pally does better than most "Whatever business as usual don't even balance them in the slightest next patch"

Edit: For the protector fight I meant 10 man version, disc domination is bigger in 25 man but H pally are the only class you can see among with them in the top 100, so once disc priest gets nerfed it'll just be a bunch of H pally in the top 100 in both 10 and 25.
Edited by Meit on 2/9/2013 8:27 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
15450
I wouldn't say it's only because of there shield, but on most log you have pally right next to disc in both 10 and 25 (if you actually look at the hard version of protector there are way more holy pally than disc priest) yet because there holy pally there not getting any kind of nerf while disc priest are getting one that make them worse than we were in 5.0. It's like holy pally being OP is just normal, there were OP for most of cars, they were doing very good since the start MoP they were almost mandatory in LK for tank healing.

It's just so weird the difference in reaction, priest spec does better than most: "OMG nerf them NOW" H pally does better than most "Whatever business as usual don't even balance them in the slightest next patch"

Edit: For the protector fight I meant 10 man version, disc domination is bigger in 25 man but H pally are the only class you can see among with them in the top 100, so once disc priest gets nerfed it'll just be a bunch of H pally in the top 100 in both 10 and 25.


Holy Paladin's high number in 10-man HM Elite Protectors is from blanketing the raid with EF with is supported by our 4 pc. bonus (both PvP & PvE). You want proof?

Log for No. 1 Holy Paladin between Asani's death and Kaolan's death.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jgau208zcwbs1ib2/sum/healingDone/?s=6904&e=7107

Impressive at 144k hps. Look at healing spell breakdown.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-jgau208zcwbs1ib2/details/5/?s=6904&e=7107

No. 1 heal is Eternal Flame. Look under buffs gained. Thirty three percent of Holy Power gained is from a buff called Holy Power which comes from the PvP 4 set bonus.

We are going to lose those set bonuses in 5.2. It is a huge nerf.
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85 Human Paladin
10180
There's a good chance you'll be seeing paladins move more towards haste next patch as well once "spirit cap" is attainable. Haste still will give the highest HPS per point as far as I know.

Additionally, mastery is getting a psuedo-nerf because our biggest spell that doesn't benefit from mastery is getting a 20% increase from our 4 set.
Edited by Røth on 2/9/2013 12:37 PM PST
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