10 N Rain of Blades Advice

90 Blood Elf Paladin
15510
Observation 1: Before all the adds are dead, it's not an issue.

Observation 2: Once all the adds are dead, and he has 3 stacks of recklessness, OMFG does that hurt.

Background: We do this fight with 1 tank, 3 healers, 6 dps. Our dps is good enough to down the adds in under 4 minutes, so that means we have to deal with 4 RoB while WLM has his ouchie buff.

Our priest has both disc and holy specs, although it seems to work better with her as holy for the Divine Hymn than it does as disc. But some of that is the result of our shaman not quite being up to par in healing, so if we don't have a cd up one of the shaman's responsibilites is likely to die.

I know there are guilds that 2 heal this, so I'm not sure that our shaman slacking a bit is really our problem.

In phase 2 we tend to spread out around the boss, and I've assigned the priest and shaman to each heal 3 people while I handle the tank and 3 melee with a combination of Light's Hammer/BoL/and healie goodness.

We've tried the group up for RoB tactic once or twice, and it just doesn't seem to work very well for us. It's possible we could coordinate things better, but I've seen RoB cast anywhere from 47 seconds to 72 seconds apart, which makes it hard to time the grouping up to avoid dropping wind bombs in melee range.

In terms of raid cds we have our warrior's banner and rallying cry, our priest's DH (or possibly barrier/spirit shell), and our shaman's Healing Tide.

Anyway, I'm looking for advice both raid wise and specific to each healer so that we can hopefully master this quickly instead of hoping it works out ok.

Logs from this week: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/z8nn7x6btsxc60mk/
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
02/01/2013 12:44 PMPosted by Sellys
or possibly barrier/spirit shell


You want SS over DH. It is just better. Shaman can take totemic projection and put SLT on the melee and tank.

edit: also your shaman didn't use ascendance once in your kill and should be donkey punched for said offense.
Edited by Sadiemay on 2/1/2013 12:52 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15510
In regards to Spirit Shell, would I be better off assigning our disc priest to the melee so she can prayer of healing/spirit shell them, or should is SS with single target heals sufficient? I'm thinking giving her the melee makes more sense. Put her in the same group as the melee and she can hopefully get a big enough shield on tank/herself/3 melee via PoH to keep all five alive.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
If you think you priest does better at Holy / it's easier as holy... They need a lesson in how to Disc. The damage happens over... what 6 seconds? If they spirit shell properly, the raids health shouldn't move for the first 2-3 seconds.

So here is the breakdown....
First RoB
Rain of blades 15 seconds away... Disc SSh begins... they PoH spam alternating G1 and G2.
3 seconds away, shaman drops healing stream then hits unleash. Then casts Healing Rain on melee/tank, and gets ready to run into it himself.

Second RoB
No SSh, so shaman does same thing but hits Asc and HTT.

Third RoB
Same as first

4th RoB
SLT and Barrier on melee, every runs in. Pally hits wings/guardian.

5th RoB
Same as first

The key is understanding classes.
-Priests don't heal 3 people efficiently, they heal 5 people.
-Shaman's don't ONLY heal individuals well, they heal individuals who stand in the healing rain, and watch their totem smart heal, then after that is in place they become single/chain healers.
-Pallies excel at the mix. LoD is spread AoE, Beacon is tank, HR is stacked... so do all three as a pally, direct heal the melee with HR while HS ranged and LoD for smart healing whoever needs it.
Priest should focus ranged with PoH (they should stand central), Shaman should focus melee, Pally should HR melee while HS lowest health and LoD dumping.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
With three healers there really isn't a reason to make people specifically heal anything. Less maybe you keeping your beacon on the tank. With ES/Beacon, and PW:S on the tank they should stay pretty stable. if your disc can watch the time they can blaket ss the whole raid and trivialize rob. Also get yourself a tattle tale mod and yell at people for not eating their lock rocks.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
We don't have a priest on our team, but I hear tell that SS can be used on nearly every RoB.

SS every RoB.

Save Healing Tide for RoB, obviously. Can be used twice in the fight, use it on an early time and then set a time for it to be used later.

Spirit link is godly as well, everyone can stack for RoB to make use of healing rain/pally aoe/spirit link for one of the RoB

Ascendance + HR + CH/GHW/HS etc is similarly godly.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Make the Priest go Disc. The Priest should be able to track SS to see who is getting the protection. Have her alternate between G1 and G2 with Spirit Shell approx 12-14 seconds before it's due to happen. If someone isn't getting the buff in one group, have her target that peroson with PoH while under Ss, and just alternate like that. She should be able to soak up just about everything from RoB.

At worst, she'll only be able to get every other RoB. At best (if the stars align), I have been able to get every RoB, because sometimes he delays it just after one set of adds dies.
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90 Human Priest
5860
Your disc priest should be spirit shelling the raid nearly all of the Phase 2 Rain of Blades casts. About 15s before the cast, pop Spirit Shell (and Archangel) and cast 2-3 Prayer of Healing casts on each group. RoB tends to come a bit faster than every 1 minute. If it gets too close to comfortably Spirit Shell that's when you use another healer CD, such as HTT. You'll still have to heal through the RoB damage, but it's much more manageable with a large chunk absorbed by SS.

example log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v36pw157lerwupda/sum/healingDone/?s=5657&e=6090#Evry

edit: aaaand it looks like lots of others replied too.
Edited by Evry on 2/1/2013 1:13 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
02/01/2013 01:11 PMPosted by Tiriél
Spirit Shell approx 12-14 seconds before it's due to happen.


Have you had it expire before he actually casts it?
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90 Pandaren Monk
13685
Make sure everybody stacks on boss for Rain of Blades, then ranged/healers get out once it's over to avoid dropping a wind bomb on melee.

Basically it's chain cooldowns, use one per raid of blade and it's GG.

If you priest is disc, all his damage done will be boosted by recklessness, so his atonement is doing 600% healing..
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13125
Pitkanen - I don't know if you've actually done this as Disc, but I'm guessing you haven't (it sounds like you're speaking from healing with a Disc priest who figured out the timing on his/her own). The issue for learning the fight is that he doesn't actually RoB on cooldown.

For the first 4-5 (counting from the beginning of the fight) he does it very nearly once/minute (the logs I've looked at closely seem to show him hitting it every 1:05 to 1:15); after that, he speeds up, but doesn't quite hit the 45-second mark because he still has other abilities he uses at a higher priority rating.

There's also something odd going on with boss mod timers, or at least BigWigs (I think they're just assuming he does use it on CD and counting 45-second intervals from the first use); in p2 he tends to cast RoB before the timer ends.

The best I figured, although I haven't actually been the one to put it into practice, is that you basically want to hit SS right when the first RoB goes off in p1, then hit it on CD for the rest of the fight. (It's more ideal if you can time ~5 seconds before the first one, but I'm not sure that's possible.) With that strategy, almost every RoB comes out either partway through SS (which is fine) or during the 15-second active window after it expires.

Even if you do that, it's likely you'll miss one of the RoBs in p2 - it should be either the last or second-to-last one. When you see him start to cast and your SS is still on CD or just coming off CD, get a cooldown from another healer and hold SS for about 30-35 seconds.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Yeah, I'm def going off the timing I have to use as resto with my 3min CD's and projecting based on the SSh CD.

I hate bosses with bad timers. So much. This guy and Feng... doesn't bliz know I can't cast healing rain while running in, I have to put it down before I run in, if I cast it after I get in it is too late to do any real healing.... I need my timerz to tell me when to do stuff!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/01/2013 01:20 PMPosted by Taymage
Spirit Shell approx 12-14 seconds before it's due to happen.


Have you had it expire before he actually casts it?


Yeah. If the adds go down right before he RoBs, he delays it.
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90 Human Priest
5860
@the timer: in P1 on normal, he uses it about every minute (+/- 1-2 seconds). Once P2 starts, he uses it about every 48-55s so you eat up time on SS.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2uto14gb0r9rdjwg/xe/?s=3812&e=4183&x=spell+%3D+%22Rain+of+Blades%22+and+type%3DTYPE_CAST

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v36pw157lerwupda/xe/?s=5657&e=6090&x=spell+%3D+%22Rain+of+Blades%22+and+type%3DTYPE_CAST

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5f4xpgz66xukghps/xe/?s=6160&e=6581&x=spell+%3D+%22Rain+of+Blades%22+and+type%3DTYPE_CAST
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100 Tauren Druid
9620
3 healers whatttt?

Why would you have assignments with 3heals...and having Shaman not on the stacked melee is offensive if you're going to assign healers.

Honestly healing assignments is dumb in just about every fight this tier except for Garalon and Will of the Emperor.

And yes, Rain of Blades sucks. It hurts. I would advise you set set each RoB to one specific healer for their cooldowns.

Say Priest gets first, Pally second, Shaman 3rd.
From there, you need to see who is having the most trouble healing through it. I know for a fact my Tranquility cannot heal it on it's own. I have to use a Int pot, and even then it's cutting it very close.

The Priest should easily be able to handle 3 of them relatively on his own. SS, Barrier, SS.

Make sure the entire raid is stacking up during RoB, UNLESS some people have their own personal cooldowns to blow.
We have a shadow priest and a hunter popping disperse and deterrance, this helps alot because this = my tranq does not heal them = more heals for people who need it. Things like this will greatly help your shamans cooldown.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13150
02/01/2013 01:20 PMPosted by Taymage
Spirit Shell approx 12-14 seconds before it's due to happen.


Have you had it expire before he actually casts it?


Yes. It makes my guts not care for Wind Lord. From one of the DBM authors (mysticalos), for people who haven't seen it:

"I find no problem with them. his abilities are highly variable. ALL of his abilities are on cooldowns and not precise next timers. this means that they are highly variable. for example. the tank debuff only has a 20 second cd, but he may wait as much as 30 or 35 seconds before casting it. We do not control this, blizzard does. all we can do is provide a timer that says "he won't be casting x ability for next 20 seconds". wehther he casts it right away or waits a while is beyond our control. the better boss mods get the more variable blizzard makes boss cds to counter our delopment. They still want RNG to keep players on their toes to prevent everything to just be a hardcoded planned sequence of events where you are prepared for every ability the split second it happens."
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90 Night Elf Druid
10550
02/01/2013 01:10 PMPosted by Fluffy
Ascendance + HR + CH/GHW/HS etc is similarly godly.


Indeed it is. I've dropped this boss once on my shammy and between my cooldowns and the two mistweavers (revival), the RoB damage was almost trivial.
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90 Gnome Priest
17125
1.) have you disc priest spirit shell EVERYBODY with prayer of healing for every single rain. When they do use spirit shell an added bonus would be if they archangel, innerfocus, or power infusion also ready. (pi is probably not necessary for 10m)

2.) shaman needs to use their cooldowns.

3.) win boss
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90 Pandaren Monk
10205
First thing I checked for and noticed right off the bat. People are being hit by Whirling blade..this should never happen. I know it happens from time to time but from just three that I checked, far too many times (on the kill, everyone but one person got hit dubya tee eff), that in itself is a large burdon taken off of the healers, especially when the tank is taking alot of bursty damage.

All you really need to do is rotate personal cooldowns and raid cooldowns.

I'm gonna look at it more, and of course I am no expert at this, but these are the things that are just screaming at me right off the bat.

One thing I also just noticed, there is a lack of chain healing, but Riptide is his second most used spell (which has a chain heal buff in it), shouldn't they be using it more often? I am no shaman so I have no clue.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
02/01/2013 12:44 PMPosted by Sellys
Anyway, I'm looking for advice both raid wise and specific to each healer so that we can hopefully master this quickly instead of hoping it works out ok.


Your priest should be running Disc for this fight. No ifs ands or buts, hands down it is the best spec to handle RoB. Have him watch the RoB timer and SS before it goes it. Damage avoided is always better than healing up after taking damage.

From a Holy Paladin perspective, I use HA and Lights Hammer on this fight. I drop Hammer in the melee group and then 3HoPo blanket the ranged. On RoB where I have Holy Avenger on cd, I use DF or AW, which ever one is up, and I try to roll out some EFs while stacking HoPo in preparation for the burst. Since the raid takes very little dmg between RoB, this usually isn't an issue and gives me something to do while I'm waiting around for it.
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