Those who don't study history...

80 Tauren Druid
2115
... are doomed to repeat it.

It's funny to see some of the Disc "nerfs" included in 5.2, like removing the automatic DA from PoH.

You know, before WoTLK, that's the way PoH was for disc. Blizzard ADDED automatic DA to make Disc AoE healing viable. So, PoH will revert back to an underpowered, group-based, weak AoE heal for Disc.

I've switched between Holy and Disc since BC. Blizzard can never seem to get them both balanced correctly at the same time. I wish they'd collapse them into one tree and come up with another dps spec (perhaps holy dps?).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
I never understood why people post on obvious forum alts instead of their mains. :-\ Do you think you get more street cred for posting on a Druid?
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90 Draenei Shaman
16765
History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it. :-)

I'd say that healing models can differ vastly per expansion. The needs of a spec can change. Essentially, it's not evidence enough to simply quote the past to justify your opposition to changes today.
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80 Tauren Druid
2115
02/04/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Tiriél
I never understood why people post on obvious forum alts instead of their mains. :-\ Do you think you get more street cred for posting on a Druid?


Because I'd rather have people respond to my post, and not respond with things such as "you should reforge all your haste into mastery, don't you read EJ?", that are unrelated to the topic.
Edited by Zasshu on 2/5/2013 10:18 AM PST
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80 Tauren Druid
2115
History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it. :-)

I'd say that healing models can differ vastly per expansion. The needs of a spec can change. Essentially, it's not evidence enough to simply quote the past to justify your opposition to changes today.


They do, but honestly, PoH hasn't changed. My feel is that it will still be used during Spirit Shell, but not beyond that.
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80 Tauren Druid
2115
Really, the solution is to have Spirit Shell only absorb half incoming damage, and let half through. And have DA absorb all damage (as it does now). Probably leave PW:S untouched as well.

By having Spirit Shell only absorb half the damage, you eliminate most of the heal sniping, and things like HoTs still have a place.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
So Divine Aegis doesn't work for Disc every time they cast it, only when they crit. So people can now stop spam-casting PoH to keep everyone at full health. I am working on leveling my priest through MoP, and it's so !@#$%^- easy to just spam PoH constantly; the DA takes care of incoming damage and the hela itself takes care of any damage that they recieve. Doesn't matter if the tank is taking spiky damage, or if there's a lot of AoE going out; nope, just spam and call it a day. I made the switch back to Holy last night and had fun once more, because it took more work than mashing 1 button until the trash or boss was cleared.

The current Disc is simply overpowered. Being able to one button mash your way through dungeons isn't what healing is about. It could be that I still have my DS gear on that toon (he's still only level 85), but I never ran even close to OoM, because of Rapture by putting a shield on the tank, meaning more PoH heals all day er'ry day.

As for the SS nerf...honestly, I don't know anythign about it. I've only had to use Spirit Shell once because of a mega-squishy tank. I never had to except for one cast in one instance, so I can't speak about it in full knowledge of what I'm talking about.
Edited by Fistlobster on 2/5/2013 10:35 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
So Divine Aegis doesn't work for Disc every time they cast it, only when they crit. So people can now stop spam-casting PoH to keep everyone at full health. I am working on leveling my priest through MoP, and it's so !@#$%^- easy to just spam PoH constantly; the DA takes care of incoming damage and the hela itself takes care of any damage that they recieve. Doesn't matter if the tank is taking spiky damage, or if there's a lot of AoE going out; nope, just spam and call it a day. I made the switch back to Holy last night and had fun once more, because it took more work than mashing 1 button until the trash or boss was cleared.

The current Disc is simply overpowered. Being able to one button mash your way through dungeons isn't what healing is about. It could be that I still have my DS gear on that toon (he's still only level 85), but I never ran even close to OoM, because of Rapture by putting a shield on the tank, meaning more PoH heals all day er'ry day.

As for the SS nerf...honestly, I don't know anythign about it. I've only had to use Spirit Shell once because of a mega-squishy tank. I never had to except for one cast in one instance, so I can't speak about it in full knowledge of what I'm talking about.


Well, it's obvious that you don't raid on your Disc Priest, so yes, you wouldn't really understand how the nerfs are going to affect Disc Priests in raids. We'll still be able to basically one-button mash our way through dungeons (although um...most people didn't spend all of their time casting PoH in a 5 man, because that would be stupid lol). Dungeons aren't difficult once you have gear. We're not being nerfed because of our...ah..."prowess" in 5 man content. :-P
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Then I apologize. I don't have the experience necessary to really have an informed opinion on the subject, so I'll try to withhold my opinions. In my experience, having leveled this healer and am working on a 2-in-1 healer, it just seems so...easy to heal in Disc. Way too easy.
Edited by Fistlobster on 2/5/2013 10:48 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/05/2013 10:44 AMPosted by Fistlobster
Then I apologize. I don't have the experience necessary to really have an informed opinion on the subject, so I'll try to withhold my opinions. In my experience, having leveled this healer and am working on a 2-in-1 healer, it just seems so...easy to heal in Disc. Way too easy.


I don't mind you offering your opinion, but it's kind of silly when you make statements like, "You won't be able to mash one button in dungeons anymore." It's silly. And yes, it IS easy to heal a 5 man as Disc when you have enough gear. It IS way too easy, but that has a bit more to do with our mana scaling out of control than things like PoH - at least in 5 man content.

Think of it this way - imagine if, on your Mistweaver, you never had to worry about mana, ever. You could cast your most expensive, most costly spells and never see your mana pool really drop. BUT...your cheap, easily-spammed abilities did so much healing by themselves that you never really had to cast the expensive ones. And you were pretty much always swimming in mana.

My mana rarely drops below 80% these days, even with a really squishy tank.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
02/05/2013 10:53 AMPosted by Tiriél
Think of it this way - imagine if, on your Mistweaver, you never had to worry about mana, ever.

"Life has killed a dream I dreamed..." :C

But yes, I understand where you're coming from. I guess I just outscale the content I heal at. My opinion was ill-informed, and rather opinionated. I dunno, looking through these forums and seeing a lot of world-is-ending dismay at Disc nerfs that it's starting to bug me. Disc will still be viable, I have no doubts, and I'll still switch between Disc and Holy once I get my gnome up to 90. They both have their uses. But I just feel that right now, Disc is the end-all spec for priests right now, simply because it has too much power.
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90 Human Priest
11345
There are new patch notes on MMO-C. They contain numbers changes. Now we get to see which of them are actual changes and which are tooltip updates or datamining errors.

You can't really make an accurate assessment of how strong the spec will be until after the numbers pass is done. I think removing auto-DA is a good thing for the spec mechanically as long as they can find some middle ground between mastery sucking because PW:S is too weak and us spamming PW:S because it is too strong.

Edit: Looks like most of them are changes because of the new Spiritual Healing passive. I still want to know what is going on with there being a new PW:S tooltip every patch.
Edited by Amabella on 2/5/2013 11:07 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9855
I've switched between Holy and Disc since BC. Blizzard can never seem to get them both balanced correctly at the same time. I wish they'd collapse them into one tree and come up with another dps spec (perhaps holy dps?).


Because perfect Balance that makes 100% of the player base happy doesnt exsist.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/05/2013 10:59 AMPosted by Fistlobster
Think of it this way - imagine if, on your Mistweaver, you never had to worry about mana, ever.

"Life has killed a dream I dreamed..." :C

But yes, I understand where you're coming from. I guess I just outscale the content I heal at. My opinion was ill-informed, and rather opinionated. I dunno, looking through these forums and seeing a lot of world-is-ending dismay at Disc nerfs that it's starting to bug me. Disc will still be viable, I have no doubts, and I'll still switch between Disc and Holy once I get my gnome up to 90. They both have their uses. But I just feel that right now, Disc is the end-all spec for priests right now, simply because it has too much power.


Well, part of it is that not everyone was abusing Disc to the degree that certain people were in higher-end raids. For instance, I've never blanketed my raid using PoH. I raid 10 mans and I am responsible for one tank all the time, so blanketing PoH outside of Spirit Shell is not a wise move on my part. So, for me, it's kind of frustrating because it makes an already kind of derpy spell worse for me.

Also, I think a lot of Priests are still traumatized by how bad Disc was when MoP dropped. A lot of Disc's issues were brought up during the Beta, repeatedly. We were repeatedly told it would be fine. Well, it wasn't. Blizzard didn't listen, and quite predictably, we weren't fine. But instead of addressing the deep mechanical issues (that should have been addressed during the Beta, but weren't), they just did a round of ridiculous buffing (that only the foolish Priests wanted). So now there's a round of heavy nerfing, and it feels like see-saw.

I guess the same could be said of Mistweavers, because a lot of the mechanical issues with the spec were brought up repeatedly in Beta, but the raw numbers that y'all could put out sort of covered it up and made it easy to ignore. With the nerf, the mechanical issues because glaringly exposed.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Makes sense. Maybe just the scale of the problem was...well, the problem. I apologize for coming off as pompous, and thanks for helping me understand the issue from the perspective of a healer who wasn't part of the problem.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/05/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Fistlobster
Makes sense. Maybe just the scale of the problem was...well, the problem. I apologize for coming off as pompous, and thanks for helping me understand the issue from the perspective of a healer who wasn't part of the problem.


I think healers have become meter junkies to the point that 99% of players will simply spam their highest throughput spell and to hell with whether they're actually helping the raid - IT LOOKS GOOD ON THE METERS, BRO! As long as they have the mana to support it, spamming will ensue. If you're ever in the offshore healer chat we have set up ,I'll tell you a story about a Disc Priest doing precisely that to a friend of mine (who is not a Disc Priest), looking amazing on the meters but actually gimping his raid horribly.

With that said, I'm not concerned with ranking, I'm concerned with bosses dying and my co-healers feeling like we're a team. So, I try not to suppress them unless it's absolutely needed (incoming raid damage, need to get that Spirit Shell up!). I mean, I need them. I can't do all of this by myself. :-P

And you're welcome. I hope I didn't come across as too aggressive. If I did, it was not intentional!
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
You weren't. I've seen much, much worse. :P

I do think healing meters are part of the problem, and I know I should stop looking at my own, and instead focus on overhealing (hint: mine's insane). Really no point in having healing meters if you're top of the charts and your raid wiped anyways. The point of healing is to keep the raid up, and that's it.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9855
You weren't. I've seen much, much worse. :P

I do think healing meters are part of the problem, and I know I should stop looking at my own, and instead focus on overhealing (hint: mine's insane). Really no point in having healing meters if you're top of the charts and your raid wiped anyways. The point of healing is to keep the raid up, and that's it.


If I have recount open in a raid and it isnt on DPS, its on Damage taken or Overhealing down. I hate looking at my actual healing Meters to be completely honest lol
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
You weren't. I've seen much, much worse. :P

I do think healing meters are part of the problem, and I know I should stop looking at my own, and instead focus on overhealing (hint: mine's insane). Really no point in having healing meters if you're top of the charts and your raid wiped anyways. The point of healing is to keep the raid up, and that's it.


Your overhealing is going to be high because of the nature of Renewing Mist and Uplift. That is not bad play on your part, that is just how your class works (think Druids if you will).

As far as healing meters, they have a place. They've always had a place. It used to be that you'd look at the meter to see why one player was so much further behind the pack. Was spell usage incorrect? Were they severely undergeared? How active were they? What were they doing in the raid?

Sadly, all people look at these days is how high on the meter they are. :-\
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
I mostly have it on to keep an eye on my HPS. Not for my own ego, but for my own stability. If I have a pull where I do dismal HPS and the party suffers for it, then I try to recall what I did differently. Alternatively, if I do amazing HPS with good mana management, I try to work in what I did into a regular rotation. Anyone who uses the healing meters to boost their ego is using it for the wrong reason.

That said, I'm getting to the point where I've hammered out most of what I can do as a healer, and should focus on reducing my overhealing done, even in dealing with the mechanics of RM and Uplift. Fun spec is fun, but I should still be able to play to my best.
Edited by Fistlobster on 2/5/2013 11:40 AM PST
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