A guild with too many "raiders"

90 Troll Priest
9440
Hi -

I've had the (great) luck of starting a new semi-hardcore 10 man raiding guild with friends, needing DPS and tanks and healers, going from needing to pug half a raid, to a few, to one, and now to having too many raiders on the roster due to over recruiting.

I want to include everyone who wants to be included, because I really want to having the extra raid ready people in the guild when people otherwise can't make it. We're planning on switching out the group composition for progression almost boss-by-boss in 5.2, but for now I'm looking for options. It simply takes too much time to switch people out when a whole MSV run only takes an hour and a half.

How do you keep people recruited to raid involved, when there are better qualified and better geared people also on the roster?

My current thoughts, since we only have a few extra people, is that we'll be making a "Core" rank, and promoting our there-every-time raid group to that rank. Those will be the first people invited, and then we'll fill in spots from the "Member" rank as needed for comp.

My members are also extremely willing to let others come in for gear when they can't get anything new - but once we're in 5.2 content I think that will be rare and so I'd like any other thoughts.

What would you do?
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90 Tauren Warrior
9435
Just set up a rotation.
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I would advise against segregating your raiders by what will viewed as "favorites" and "second string". Keep your people that raid at the same rank (barring officerships) and just rotate them in on a set schedule as rvalue said.

Some rotate by boss but if you're a bit more casual I know I would prefer a by lockout simply because that way your people can pug on weeks when they know they'll be "off" and wont get locked out of bosses. You could always poll your members to see what the majority prefers.
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90 Human Paladin
6515
Start a secondary raid group and then move into 25 man progression. Otherwise create a rotation but seriosuly my horde guild had 3 10 mans running. Back in vanilla my alliance guild had 3 40 man groups going.
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90 Human Warlock
7245
Agreed with the posters above... do a rotation or u can do 2 groups dividing people accordingly
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90 Troll Priest
9440
Interesting, I was afraid of seeming like we were playing favorites with people. A rotation would be good, though building those compositions will be interesting since we don't have a lot of duplicated classes.

I like the idea of two groups as well, but we don't have enough members for two full groups unless a lot of members want to raid alts.

How would you manage the rotation when you don't have duplicated classes?
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
If you have people you can easily identify as better geared and qualified than others, you need to either get the others to get better or get rid of them. Or just sigh and carry them anyway if its a GMs wife situation.

And if people don't drag their feet and are outside switching is easy, just do it during trash.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5980
Generally if a raid team has people of vastly different 'qualification' levels, the raid team has trouble. If you've got some new people who are learning it's one thing, but when your raid team has people who play at very different levels over the long term then eventually you'll get resentment from 'god, I feel like I'm carrying those guys' or 'man, those guys need to chill out about mechanics'.
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
What do you have a surplus of? Stop recruiting what you have a surplus of.

One point to keep is that no one recruited should ever feel entitled to a raid slot. A raiding guild is a team of raiders, some of whom will not be playing every game.

With that in mind, you do want to keep people involved. You don't want to end up back in a spot where you realize that you've only got one healer showing up. Here are a few solutions I've seen work in the past:

• Rotations. Invite everyone, then have people sit. Take volunteers first "OK, so we need two DPS to sit out, any volunteers?" If you still need people to sit, do a /roll 100, high roll stays. Keep track of who is in, week-to-week, and as fair as possible, rotate in people who have been benched. (This works better if obtaining gear is influenced by attendance and being benched gets you the same credit as actually being in-raid.)

• Progression versus Farm. If you have enough bodies to fill two raid teams, do that. Otherwise, have one night of raiding be just for those who are newer, lesser geared, haven't been raiding consistently, and need to replace heroic 5-man gear. Take a couple geared folks to make it go well. On other nights, work with just the "regulars/core" to work on progression fights.

• Super scheduling. Like a hard-core version of rotations. Sit down with a spreadsheet and plan out a month's raiding. Forecast which bosses with be down each night. Set up who will be invited to each night. Then send everyone the schedule and make it clear that those are their raid nights.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12995
Some fights it's helpful to have specific specs/classes, so a bench is nice for that.

However at the end of the day, your top 10 should be brought for progression unless one of your 10+ players spec/class will make the fight ahead much easier due to a specific class abilities way of countering a mechanic.

Tell your "bench" players that they will be brought in for farm content and should they outperform one of the top 10 on a regular basis, they will take their raid slot.

My personal perfect 10 man roster consists of such.

2 tanks
4 healers, one is mainly a bench player, try to have them a class/spec that nobody else uses gear for.
7 dps, a good balance of ranged and melee with one of your dps having a viable tank off set just incase one of your two tanks can't make it (is weak for the encounter)

Now the problem is that most people don't want to be recruited for a bench spot, so you basically tell everyone over the course of the next 2-3 weeks, you'll be looking over logs to see who is the most consistant dps/hps and who has the best situational awareness and you'll be picking the top 10 people with -both- of the factors in mind and that will be your progression team.

It's a crappy spot to be in, but you have to put the guilds progression ahead of friendships you may have made along the way, anyone who is actually a team player in the guild will understand and if it's not what they are looking for, will search for other options.
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90 Draenei Paladin
17855
Try to keep your roster to 11-12 players who can commit to the schedule. Or if you have some players who can't make every night, add .5 players per player who can't commit to the full time schedule.

But generally... don't keep people around if they can't commit. Needing a bit of time off is ok, but if it's a regular thing... prob best to sit them till the schedule change sorts itself.

We use SMS messages to relay when players have the night off well before the raid starts normally (generally). Keeps things smooth and running well.

Some players may prefer a full time backup position, we have a few players that do that and float between our raid groups if there is a spot. If there isn't, that's ok too. We occasionally pull them in for 'farm nights', so they can gear.
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90 Night Elf Druid
16155
If you want to do a rotation, I would suggest making a loot list. It's where members can choose the top 3-5 fights they would prefer to be in for (most players get upset when they're sat for the boss they need the most, from my experience).
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90 Troll Hunter
5100
As a raid leader as well, If you are looking to progress in the raid its not a bad thing to have a "core" raiding group and then a second string raiding group but you have to be clear to people that you are working for progression. If you are less hardcore raiding however then switching who gets to go every run would be a simple and easy fix. Provided you have a good way of deciding who gets to go without making the few that don't get to angry and leave for greener pastures.
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