Dethroning GM

85 Human Priest
9910
Build a guild around friends and people who like to play and do things together... do not build a guild for numbers.... that was your problem in the first place
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4540
Yes that's what I want to do WITH this guild here. I will keep my other guild of course, but yeah.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8445
If u were in mine u would be thrown out for even entertaining such an idea!
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90 Human Priest
10500
So you would rather have them plot behind your back to overthrow you instead of splitting off to start their own? It just seems like a waste of resources for something that provides little benefit to the overall well being of the game.
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90 Human Warlock
3490
Say a group of players then decided to join many larger guilds that have no requirements to join, who happen to have a lot of gold in the guild bank. The group of members slowly gain trust and continue to recruit more of their members until they have reached the limit needed for impeachment of the GM. They then impeach the GM and hijack the guild, and split the guild bank amongst themselves.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4540
02/06/2013 09:36 AMPosted by Drmstlker
If u were in mine u would be thrown out for even entertaining such an idea!


In all seriousness, this is why for the most part I just tend to stick to guilds of my own these days, any attempt to limit freedom of speech/expression, isn't bright, constructive or helpful. I think some people were taking me WAY of context, as if I had some evil plan to overthrow certain GM's or whatever, but this was never the case, I would sooner guilds just come clean with things is all, rather than a situation where people don't like the GM, and the GM remains completely blind to it.

Maybe some kind of system where they could make an anonymous vote if they weren't happy with the GM and the way things are running, so the GM could make their own decisions on whether or not to talk about things and ask what people's issues are, so they can either decide to compromise or not so they at least have plenty of forewarning?

Just an aside, I am getting increasingly frustrated at the moment, it's becoming harder and harder to debate legitimate issues without people making all kinds of accusations, I didn't post this as a member of guilds I am not happy with, I posted this as a GM of a guild or two, where I can sometimes be incredibly clueless as to when people are not happy. So please, if you have a response, respond in that context? These constant accusations are derailing what has the potential to be honest, open and constructive debate. Already had one thread locked over that, don't want to see it happen to another.
Edited by Eliil on 2/7/2013 12:19 AM PST
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85 Human Priest
9910
02/07/2013 12:13 AMPosted by Eliil
Just an aside, I am getting increasingly frustrated at the moment, it's becoming harder and harder to debate legitimate issues without people making all kinds of accusations,

Your problem is your past posts.... people read them and then see you dribble on about more !@#$. You cant expect people to forget stuff you have said in the past as this is a "new" topic.... Say stupid %^-* you get remembered as stupid... just saying.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4540
Perhaps not, but I CAN expect people to stick to the forum guidelines, as I try to all the time, and not get personal or make false accusations. The honest truth is, there's people that I absolutely loathe, and I wouldn't put certain things past them, but that's no need to go calling them out for things, as 1, not only is not helpful or constructive and against forum guidelines, but 2, you can only judge things with another person from your own personal experience anyway. Words are primitive and tell you very little about a person.
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90 Gnome Warrior
13465
*off topic.
You are frustrated by comments made by others in regard to your threads and to your responses in various threads. I would offer you some advice. Go back and read your past comments, threads, responses - everything. If you are honest with yourself and truly are interested in solving issues you have within your guilds, you will see distinct patterns. Some of this forum's faithful readers and commenters already have. From my point of view, you are given solid, sound advice and are not interpreting it as given and take snippets to fit your needs. It makes me as a constant reader and sometimes commentor on these forums, to read everything you type with a very jaded eye and to have no desire to enter into any meaningful dialogue with you. I think this is why you are getting the backlash that you are receiving now (and I understand, if you are not seeking drama, how it can be frustrating).

Other people aren't generally derailing your posts, you are. You are feeding the drama you claim to want to avoid. Seriously, go back and read everything you have written with the eye of an outsider. It may enlighten you to things in your behavior that others are seeing and responding to.

*on topic -
It is a very bad idea, and would set a horrible precedent and lead to all out chaos within guild structures (but that has already been stated numerous times).
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4540
*off-topic*
I don't see what all the fuss is about, I know everything I've said and done, sometimes I regret what I say, other times I do not, BUT taking snippets of advice to fit our needs is what everyone does. Does everyone that claims to be religious follow their holy book to the absolute letter? Seldom. You take out the bits that work for you, and reject the parts that don't make sense.
That does not mean that I’m not taking time to reflect on things and admit when I was wrong. For instance, one of the things on the forums I’ve said that I do regret include things like what happened on Christmas Day (boxing day my time) when I expressed my frustration at the player-base. It was just the wrong place, wrong thread, at the wrong time to express such frustrations, and I realize that now.
But regarding what I’ve said recently? I can honestly say that given some of the tougher decisions I made, my experience here is better for it. For example, the only people still by me that I am close to, are the people that don't mislead me in anyway, or make false promises for starters, and while some of my friends have encouraged me to tone certain things down, they do understand that my need for expression is important to me, and I will never get personal and attack an individual and/or guild in a place like these forums. The few people that choose to remain my friends understand that, and I've had to simply let people that try and deny me my freedom of expression go (though more often than not, it was the case that they let me go, but that's another story entirely).

*on-topic*
Yes, the original idea I had I can see would not work out. There must be some middle ground though? As I said, how about a system where unhappy members of the guild could make some kind of anonymous vote, to let the guild master know they were unhappy with the GM or whatever. That way a sudden mass exodus wouldn't come as such as a shock, and a GM could choose whether or not it was right for them to step down in order to keep the guild and friends together? Often it's the case, you don't know your the problem of something until it's too late.
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90 Tauren Hunter
0
*on-topic*
Yes, the original idea I had I can see would not work out. There must be some middle ground though? As I said, how about a system where unhappy members of the guild could make some kind of anonymous vote, to let the guild master know they were unhappy with the GM or whatever. That way a sudden mass exodus wouldn't come as such as a shock, and a GM could choose whether or not it was right for them to step down in order to keep the guild and friends together? Often it's the case, you don't know your the problem of something until it's too late.

There is no need for an anonymous vote mechanic in the current guild structure...all that is needed is for guild members to be mature and adult enough to speak up if they have an issue. If they are unwilling to step up and give voice to their frustrations/issues, then they have much larger issues to deal with than something in a video game....
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4540
Perhaps you are correct. Thank you.
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90 Night Elf Mage
9670
*on-topic*
Yes, the original idea I had I can see would not work out. There must be some middle ground though? As I said, how about a system where unhappy members of the guild could make some kind of anonymous vote, to let the guild master know they were unhappy with the GM or whatever. That way a sudden mass exodus wouldn't come as such as a shock, and a GM could choose whether or not it was right for them to step down in order to keep the guild and friends together? Often it's the case, you don't know your the problem of something until it's too late.


If ppl are not speaking or chatting in gchat, that may be a problem. If they say 'no thnx' to most of your offers, if it gets quiet when you come online (b/c they are now speaking in whispers or /group/party & don't want to deal with your unpredictable moods), if they plan dungeon runs/fun runs etc without you...there are MANY ways guildies can show they are unhappy with the guild leader, & it often happens for some time before they break off & form their own guilds.

[quote]There is no need for an anonymous vote mechanic in the current guild structure...all that is needed is for guild members to be mature and adult enough to speak up if they have an issue. If they are unwilling to step up and give voice to their frustrations/issues, then they have much larger issues to deal with than something in a video game....


Yet even the OP here admits that anyone coming to the guild leader with any issues or problems, if they do not approach in the exact right way, with the exact words & at the exact right time, then they will most likely be gkicked for being 'disloyal' or 'lying', since they may have previously said that they felt loyal to the guild & never pictured themselves leaving.

Since everything is viewed as being distrustful, sneaky, underhanded or just plain mean, how could anyone, no matter how loyal & respectful of the guild, be expected to read the OP's mind to know 'just the right words/time/way' to bring up anything having to do with the guild without swift & suspicious retribution from the OP as a Guild Leader?

You have made it nigh impossible to be approached b/c you are currently made of defensive knee-jerk reactions. I feel awful you are tuned this way, but until you stop charging ppl debts they don't owe from your past bad experiences, I'm afraid you'll be stuck in this loop of fearing pain, fearing being left behind, fearing being lied to, fearing ppl will get too close, fearing ppl will never be close enough, etc etc. You are making your own fears come true.

I know you feel wounded, but you have to stop acting like/feeling like a wounded badger in a corner with EVERYTHING.

I wish you the best & I really hope you can find constructive ways to overcome your over-actions/overreactions to daily social interaction.

You cannot change what you don't acknowledge.
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1 Orc Warrior
0
I had a guild exodus once. Lead my guildies through heroics in DS. End of content blues hit me and told them I was taking a break from raiding till MoP hit to go finish up the PvP season. They started talking behind my back I guess because one day I log on and they all started leaving. Said I was taking the guild to another server and did. Then some random member asked if I would just give the guild to him. Screw that. My guild. I worked on getting you guys in, helped you increase your heals or damage, and studied the raids to lead you. It's one thing to pass your guild on if you want them to have it, it's another to have it taken away by force. Mass exoduses are good. They either create stronger bonds or show you your mistakes. Sometimes both. Taking away GM by force does neither and would create more hate, animosity, and ill-will than any mass exodus. You aren't tied to that certain guild. You're tied to friends and the time you spend.

Now I hear they can't even clear MSV normal let alone anything on HoF and say that I kicked them all out instead of them leaving.

Eliil, you sound like one of those douches and no one can hinder your "freedom of speech" on the internet. They are just calling you out on your trolls. Big difference.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4540
*off-topic*
Sugarleaf, you are referring to a past issue though, of a guildie coming to me about garbage that trolls had told them, a completely different situation that has little to do this topic. For the record, I had no issue with that member leaving, as 1, I didn't trust them much anyway, and 2, yes, given the fact that their loyalties were also with someone I didn't particularly like for various reasons, I simply didn't care that they left. But this topic isn't about people that I don't care about.

To poster above me, what people call trolling, I call being myself, and staying true to who I am, and either will find great people that accept me for who I am, or not. Trolling to me, is deliberately saying something to cause negative reactions or annoy people. Though yes, I am aware that often in my pursuit of closer friendships, a lot of people won't like me and call me a 'troll', probably the ones that I had to reject and other randoms. The way I see if you feel the need to go calling out individuals in this game, over matters in a simple game, maybe it's time to take a break, get a real life for a while...

*on-topic*
I don't want to go after the past again, but it's very simple, there's a difference between someone demanding me that they need to talk to me as if this is some kind of workplace and they are my boss, and someone asking if they can please talk to me about an issue, this is where I come to have fun and a good time and get away from life, and the more seriously people take things, the less I want to know. I would have NO problem with a guildie coming to me and saying, 'look, I am sorry, I am not happy in the guild at the moment, and this is why', and either I will listen to what they say and make changes, or not, but at least I had the information to make the choice. And if they don't have the guts to do that, then I am starting to agree with what Gantaris said.

Though in all honesty Sugarleaf, yes, in my experience, I've found some people harder to approach than other people, that's why maybe an anonymous system where you could express your feelings could be useful, that's where my thinking was going...until Gantaris piped up anyway.
Edited by Eliil on 2/8/2013 11:20 AM PST
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1 Orc Warrior
0

To poster above me, what people call trolling, I call being myself, and staying true to who I am,


Point made. You ARE a troll.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4540
Thank you Subrosian for you insightful response.


To poster above me, what people call trolling, I call being myself, and staying true to who I am,


Point made. You ARE a troll.


If that's your definition of a troll, yes. It's not mine.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
9445
I sincerely believe based on passed posts by you.. that you have violated my guidelines.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7865086540

read this.. and if you have already broken most of these guidelines.. my advice sincerely.. stop making guilds to waste your guild members times. if you are not going to seriously show them proper respect.. and care.

You are not worthy of being a Guild master.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
4540
Your post is way off-topic Thejedi! What is actually true, is that what makes you worthy of being a Guild Master, is getting 4 other people to sign a guild charter. Right now, the chick I am on, is in her own guild, and its exclusive to only the CLOSEST of friends, not something I've tried before.

I have a lot to say on your post though in your other thread, but I will move this conversation over there.
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