New Rep Faction in 5.2 earned from Raiding?

(Locked)

90 Human Mage
4440
I may have misunderstood, so allow me to ask this:

Will the new 5.2 dailies not grant reputation to the new factions? Will it ONLY be through killing bosses in the raid?


There's a daily faction and there's a raid faction. You'll receive reputation from dailies for the daily faction (Sunreaver Onslaught). You can only increase reputation with the raid faction (Shado-Pan Assault) by raiding Throne of Thunder.


Does the daily faction also have gear?
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
02/01/2013 12:45 PMPosted by Faizaniel
I don't want to imply though that having Valor items on daily quests was in any way a failed experiment. Obviously some of you weren't too keen on having the items behind those reps, and so in 5.2 we're trying this. We may have some mix in the future, we may not, let us know how you think it feels when the patch is live and if the new daily hub is compelling enough to gain your attention without a meatier (ie ilvl based) reward

It seems like the problem here is that people don't like having to do a bunch of dailies to earn reputation to get valor point gear. The obvious solution to me would be to remove the reputation requirements (and maybe adjust the valor point cap if people are getting gear too fast). That way people who don't want to do dailies can still spend justice/valor from the PvE activities they would rather do, and people who do want to do dailies can still get nice rewards and participate in PvE progression.

From what I've seen of the Thunder Isle dailies on the PTR, I love the atmosphere... but I don't have much of an incentive to go there instead of the existing daily quests, yet. Clearly a lot hasn't been implemented, but so far 5.2 has been disappointing for me (as a very casual non-raider who might go see LFR one of these days, but isn't going to be in Throne of Thunder at release) because it puts more limits on my character progression than the 5.0/5.1 daily quest model did.


This is my biggest worry with 5.2 and these changes. Some people didn't like dailies (and TBH the upgrade system should have stopped that QQ). But what about those who did enjoy them? What about those for whom that was their main gear source as they couldn't commit to a raid schedule, or even regularly have the time for the LFR queue?

I am worried that far more people will lose out in 5.2 from having had a ton of gameplay to do in order to get their VP items largely through solo content. Is there going to be anything worthwhile for them to work towards in 5.2?

Anyone who raids or runs LFR is not going to lose out in 5.2, and in all honesty didn't really need to worry about dailies in the long term if they didn't like them in 5.0 and 5.1. However blizzard risk annoying all those players who have been able to buy current VP or badge loot without raiding since TBC, and since cata have been able to get an complete, or almost complete, upgrade set each content patch. What is there for those guys in 5.2?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17515
But what about those who did enjoy them? What about those for whom that was their main gear source as they couldn't commit to a raid schedule, or even regularly have the time for the LFR queue?


How does removing the rep requirement from vp items affect that group of people?

Remove rep requirement, items cost VP only.
Rep items are vanity items, which you would be gaining rep via the same dailies.
Dailies continue to rewards VP and rep.
82 Goblin Shaman
12575
Will rep gains be tiered by difficulty?

That is to say, will a heroic raider earn more than a normal raider, and a normal raider earn more than somebody running LFR?


Based on what we have seen posted so far, I would guess the answer is no - it is all the same - but we do not know for certain yet.
82 Goblin Shaman
12575


There's a daily faction and there's a raid faction. You'll receive reputation from dailies for the daily faction (Sunreaver Onslaught). You can only increase reputation with the raid faction (Shado-Pan Assault) by raiding Throne of Thunder.


Does the daily faction also have gear?


There is no VP gear - I'm not sure if there is any non-VP gear, however.

Blizzard is pretty much saying : "We are making raid gear currency able to be earned through a variety of activities, including (actually!) raiding. However, in order to purchase raid equivalent gear with VP, you must (actually!) participate in raiding (whether that be LFR or Normal/Heroic), earning faction specific reputation only available from within the Thrown of Thunder."

Finally, they are making sense!
Edited by Twixaroo on 2/1/2013 2:56 PM PST
90 Dwarf Paladin
15715

The whole point of a steady and measured currency to buy items is to offset the RNG of boss loot drops. If you're unlucky you still have this absolute system, and no matter what, you know that in X time you can fill in at least a few of those gaps. The intent of these currencies wasn't as a type of separate loot progression, but that is the way a lot of people perceive it, and certainly some of our designs have even worked to support that perception.


But this isn't VP anymore - VP is for upgrading. It doesn't make any sense to spend VP on the missing piece when you should be spending it on upgrading items. If you buy the missing piece with VP, then it could be wasted VP if your missing piece does drop next week, where upgrading is never wasted. There are multiple ways to get that missing piece, but there is only one way to upgrade. It's not even a choice and it doesn't fit with your original design intention for VP.

I understand that upgrade vendors are being removed for 5.2, but it is this way currently on live and it sucks. When (or if) the upgrade vendors return in 5.3, it will be the same way. I can never buy missing pieces for my offspec becaues there are always things to upgrade for my main spec. Upgrading should not cost VP. I love the idea of upgrading, but I hate that I have to spend VP on it, esp. when the blues keep saying the original intention of VP was to fill in the missing pieces.
90 Blood Elf Priest
14095
02/01/2013 11:01 AMPosted by Bashiok
Huzzah! The hero hath once again slain many inconsequential foes


Who said that trash has to be inconsequential? Firelands wasn't that long ago. I remember having to CC and having to pull carefully. I remember when trash actually had mechanics that could wipe you if you weren't paying attention. I remember good and interesting trash.

I remember the turtles.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17515
02/01/2013 03:20 PMPosted by Shockem
LFR gets a Delayed wing each week in 5.2? if so we will be left behind rep wise unless we do normal/heroic mode? is this true?


Just like in 5.0. Does doing the easy content earn you the least rewards? Apparently so.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17515
02/01/2013 03:28 PMPosted by Shockem
In 5.0 rep wasn't tide to raids there’s a difference here I love LFR because I don't have to commit to a set day/time every week! I have a family and a life so LFR has been a real nice feature for me.


Thats totally understandable. So because you have other priorities, yea, youd be slightly behind.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13160
02/01/2013 09:34 AMPosted by Whyvette
I know what a horrific grind is from doing just two dailies to Exalted.


LoL like those Tuskarr's out in Northrend. Cheap bastards.
90 Pandaren Monk
12100
I'm not knocking the raid rep deal, but don't knock ICC trash rep runs.

I never understood the big deal here. It brought a lot of folks together on the server. People formed their own raids like Sha. You know, mmo type stuff.

Just put the best gear revered and past; with no rep past revered from pre first boss trash or something.
100 Orc Death Knight
14175
02/01/2013 12:09 PMPosted by Bashiok
So here's a question, why have valor gear gated behind rep at all? I definitely see it as a step in the right direction having valor gated behind raids instead of dailies. But it's still a double-tax. You earn valor points, but in order to spend said points, you need to earn rep on top of it.


The whole point of a steady and measured currency to buy items is to offset the RNG of boss loot drops. If you're unlucky you still have this absolute system, and no matter what, you know that in X time you can fill in at least a few of those gaps. The intent of these currencies wasn't as a type of separate loot progression, but that is the way a lot of people perceive it, and certainly some of our designs have even worked to support that perception. The whole original intent in mind though it makes more sense to ensure that you're killing bosses to be able to buy Valor items, and not just farming up Valor from other sources. Of course we could take Valor out of everything but raid kills/completions to avoid that... but Valor is a nice reward to have in a lot of various systems, and lets people pick and choose the ways they want to earn it.

I don't want to imply though that having Valor items on daily quests was in any way a failed experiment. Obviously some of you weren't too keen on having the items behind those reps, and so in 5.2 we're trying this. We may have some mix in the future, we may not, let us know how you think it feels when the patch is live and if the new daily hub is compelling enough to gain your attention without a meatier (ie ilvl based) reward.

I understand the intent. However, it still feels like a double tax (rep + valor points) even if in effect you just are trying to tie 5.2 VP gear to 5.2 bosses.

I did like the previous system where previous tier content/gear was switched to jp and valor was earned only in the current tier. I feel like this maintained the intent of current VP gear from current bosses. But the added bonus I liked was it allowed a lot more flexibility for older content. Personally I liked I could convert jp to honor to buy previous tier pvp sets for transmog, for example. It certainly adds a lot more use for jp which I feel has been left by the wayside this xpac.

People like to pick and choose how they earn VP, and they like to pick and choose how they spend it, too. Even if all there is to purchase is valor gear, one can pick which slot they want to buy first. I personally choose items that aren't a tier set slot - boots, belts, bracers, etc. In a gated rep VP system, it sounds like only certain slots will be available depending on rep standing. 0 choice.
100 Blood Elf Priest
18050
02/01/2013 12:45 PMPosted by Faizaniel
From what I've seen of the Thunder Isle dailies on the PTR, I love the atmosphere... but I don't have much of an incentive to go there instead of the existing daily quests, yet.


It's good you put that "yet" there because at one point you Will be done with all the other dailies, unless you need gold or feel you have to cap valor weekly. I don't "have" to do them now, all exalted even doing them sporadically/eratically (except that bastidge Nat Pagle, may he drown in his beer cooler with the stoopid rare fishies)...errm, what was I saying.

Oh yeah, yay for more newer things to do! You can come later.
14 Night Elf Hunter
130


Does the daily faction also have gear?


There is no VP gear - I'm not sure if there is any non-VP gear, however.

Blizzard is pretty much saying : "We are making raid gear currency able to be earned through a variety of activities, including (actually!) raiding. However, in order to purchase raid equivalent gear with VP, you must (actually!) participate in raiding (whether that be LFR or Normal/Heroic), earning faction specific reputation only available from within the Thrown of Thunder."

Finally, they are making sense!


It doesn't make any sense unless the upgrade vendors stay in. I don't mind the idea putting the best gear behind raidfactions but I do mind not being able to spend my vp. And as long as LFR is considered raiding, I have a problem with it. It is easier to get carried through there then LFD. But after all it's Blizz new baby. Everybody has to love it or stay behind.
Edited by Littledeer on 2/1/2013 4:50 PM PST
14 Night Elf Hunter
130
I'm looking forward to the daily questhub and hope they have some neat rewards that don't cost over 1000 gold. It seems to me the only reason there are so many mounts behind the factions is as goldsink. I rather have the token system from TB.
100 Goblin Shaman
8700
02/01/2013 04:49 PMPosted by Littledeer
It doesn't make any sense unless the upgrade vendors stay in. I don't mind the idea putting the best gear behind raidfactions but I do mind not being able to spend my vp. And as long as LFR is considered raiding, I have a problem with it. It is easier to get carried through there then LFD. But after all it's Blizz new baby. Everybody has to love it or stay behind.


It makes plenty of sense.

Bashiok, basically confirmed something I've been telling your crowd for a while:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7811651378?page=4#77

VP gear was never meant to gear you up. It is there as a means to bad RNG in raids. They are just going back to that this coming patch.

And, yes, despite popular belief: LFR (Looking for Raid) is still considered a raid:

1) Requires more than 5 breathing zombies to be at their keyboards and participating.
2) Has a similar lockout on gear the way a normal raid has a weekly lockout.
3) Has slightly harder mechanics than a 5 man does- but not so hard that people can't get the content down.

The only difference is you can still run LFR all day if you want to; you just can't get gear unless using a token.
Edited by Jujubiju on 2/1/2013 5:02 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11285
Are there any plans for content that is no longer the “most current” as far as including it into raid finder , my specific example is the Avengers of Hyjal and the fact that you have to be killing bosses to get rep , maybe adding a quest line would be a nice way to recover those factions reputation, I missed out on most runs that gave Avengers reputation , it’s hard to set up a raid for none-current stuff , the other alternative is to wait for a few expansions until you can solo the raid to get reputation , the idea of locking reputation for a faction boxed only inside a raid is getting a little old , especially with all the revolutionary drastic changes Blizzard has been implementing. Just a thought , I wish the best experience to everyone.
100 Human Mage
14745
02/01/2013 10:39 AMPosted by Omegal
So, regular raiders will still be running LFR whether they want to or not to min max their rep. :\


Oh dear. You have to choose between not doing something or hanging out with the dirty unwashed masses. ;)

If you're a min/maxer you're happy you can do lfr as well if that's how it works. If you're not you'll either do lfr or not depending on how you feel.

I don't have much sympathy for the "forced to do it" attitude.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]