BS 1-500 with Ghost Iron alone

90 Gnome Warrior
13195
http://www.wowhead.com/news=210415/5-2-ptr-blacksmithing-leveling-revamp-megaera-video

It's unclear how many skillups each of these recipes will provide, but it looks like 1-500 BS will be doable with only Ghost Iron bars. I presume the idea is for these recipes to be used, not ignored, so they will likely be more efficient than leveling the profession in the standard manner.

Given the popularity this route will likely have, I'd expect it to expand to the other profs as well.

My initial reaction is one of contempt for this change. It'll make old-world mats meaningless, people leveling mining might as well vendor their Thorium ore if this change makes it across all profs. We'll also see a proliferation of people with professions that are presently costly to powerlevel, which could destabilize many markets.

I'm concerned this will both diminish the feeling of accomplishment for dinging a tough prof 600, and flood many markets with oversupply since people won't have to exert much in the way of effort to enter those markets. The new lightning forge weapons, we might see them selling at mats cost, if it costs so little gold/effort to switch out your Inscription for Blacksmithing.

I don't know what the rationale behind this is supposed to be, people will like it because it will get them to 600 faster, but it undermines years of tradition in favor of near-instant gratification. Who knows what the economic impact will be, this just strikes me as irresponsible.
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82 Goblin Shaman
12575
http://www.wowhead.com/news=210415/5-2-ptr-blacksmithing-leveling-revamp-megaera-video

It's unclear how many skillups each of these recipes will provide, but it looks like 1-500 BS will be doable with only Ghost Iron bars. I presume the idea is for these recipes to be used, not ignored, so they will likely be more efficient than leveling the profession in the standard manner.

Given the popularity this route will likely have, I'd expect it to expand to the other profs as well.

My initial reaction is one of contempt for this change. It'll make old-world mats meaningless, people leveling mining might as well vendor their Thorium ore if this change makes it across all profs. We'll also see a proliferation of people with professions that are presently costly to powerlevel, which could destabilize many markets.

I'm concerned this will both diminish the feeling of accomplishment for dinging a tough prof 600, and flood many markets with oversupply since people won't have to exert much in the way of effort to enter those markets. The new lightning forge weapons, we might see them selling at mats cost, if it costs so little gold/effort to switch out your Inscription for Blacksmithing.

I don't know what the rationale behind this is supposed to be, people will like it because it will get them to 600 faster, but it undermines years of tradition in favor of near-instant gratification. Who knows what the economic impact will be, this just strikes me as irresponsible.


It takes THIRTY DAYS (one lightning steel ingot per day that are BOP), 300 ghost iron bars, 30 Living Steel, and 18 SoH's to make a Tier 3 2H weapon, I fail to see how the market is going to be flooded.

If people want to flood the market with a bunch of blue T1 weapons, let them it will save me some time!
Edited by Twixaroo on 2/1/2013 12:50 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
8265
The game makes far too many compromises for the econ motivated players already. This nod to people who just want to make stuff is way past due.

Take a look at the amount of mats required to level blacksmithing. The amount just doesn't support the available supply, especially when people are spending little to no time in the zones where the spawn. Other than bots and dedicated miners (which low pop servers may not even have). With 3 other production tradeskills feeding off the mats, steps needed to be taken. Either reduce the mats required or let current content miners have better value for the time.

Contempt for the change? Please... Speaking as someone who has 2 other chars with 600 mining this is a great change. For blacksmiths and miners alike.

And on the instant gratification part.. people have been leveling production tradeskills with just AH work since the game was released. How is buying 5 different bars from the AH such a character building trial, but buying 1 different bar from the AH makes people lazy scum who spit on wow's great (and non existent) tradition of slow tradeskill leveling?
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
11180
Having done the slog to level a BS this expansion I certainly do not begrudge an easier path for this in the future and this can hardly be considered unexpected. They have previously stated that the new cooking and inscription models were the future of professions this is them committing to that.
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90 Gnome Warrior
13195
It takes THIRTY DAYS (one lightning steel ingot per day that are BOP), 300 ghost iron bars, 30 Living Steel, and 18 SoH's to make a Tier 3 2H weapon, I fail to see how the market is going to be flooded.


My concern is that with the threat of having to invest any meaningful amount of start-up capital or time to develop a blacksmith removed, there is nothing stopping anyone who knows about the weapons to flip every level 90 toon they have to that prof within a week of patch day (pending how many skillup points you get per training recipe, we don't know that yet).

Within 5-6 weeks or so, we'll likely see an huge glut of such weapons appear on the AH. The current development of a BS toon would've slowed that a bit, but that market regulator is gone.

This is a huge change to the profession - especially given that these weapons are going to be one of the cornerstones of the profession market for this tier.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
8460
I just levelled blacksmithing on one of my alts just last week.

ARRRRRGHHHHGHGHHGHHGHGHGH
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100 Human Paladin
9580
If they are doing this, then I want to see something similar for leatherworking.

It took me ages to get my rogues leatherworking up simply because I didn't have skinning and old world (medium and heavy mostly) leather and hides are NEVER on the auction house.
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100 Human Paladin
aus
20255
Sub 300 at least BS is quite a bit harder then JC, inscription,alchemy etc.

20-30 minutes of gathering (thanks CRZ) for 1 point.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
02/01/2013 03:23 PMPosted by Ereus
With 3 other production tradeskills feeding off the mats, steps needed to be taken

What do you mean? I farmed all my own mats while leveling. Doesn't take long. The AH is a good supplement if you don't mind the extortionate profiteering. I fail to see how the entire economy of low level mats needed to be wiped out in principle (we know this'll get added to the other primary professions as well). Also, there are only really a handful of choke points in the system at the end of classic, BC, and Wrath that required real volume anyway. Go solo a raid or a dungeon or 3 and you'll collect enough to get er done. Need herbs or ore, do a couple of circles in the low-population zones that no one visits anymore and you'll be done shortly. I collect this stuff while digging for archaeology and hardly ever need to purchase from the AH when I grind up a profession.

This makes sense only from the perspective of a lvl 90 character wanting to level a profession from scratch, imo. They don't want to go back and farm mats from trivial mobs, so ghost iron it is. They don't want to pay at the AH, so cheap, overly plentiful ghost iron it is.

I disagree with this idea. I didn't like it for cooking, but at least that was a secondary profession. I like it even less on a primary profession where a little dedication isn't too much to ask for the ability to make wearable gear and benefit from profession perks.
Edited by Maeday on 2/1/2013 9:35 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
0
02/01/2013 07:54 PMPosted by Mate
20-30 minutes of gathering (thanks CRZ) for 1 point.

While this hasn't been a problem in my experience farming my own mats, I do understand that many perceive it to be a problem, and that CRZ may not be affecting my realm the same as yours. This may be a valid point. Blizzard should be using dynamic respawn rate code on nodes and herbs the same way they do on mobs in high population zones to deal with crowding.

If there are a ton of people there, let the respawn times get shorter, especially on trivial content. All the MoP nodes are far more plentiful than BC, Wrath, and even Cata nodes.

The solution is to encourage people to go out into the world and play the game. Go get your loot (and therefore, it needs to be out there to go get!) and create your own. Sitting in SW/Org buying out Ghost Iron at the AH is NOT what this is supposed to be about.

Professions in theory are about dedicating oneself to crafting so you have a unique skill. You go and learn recipes. You try them, make them, and get more skill. These require level-specific mats so that you can do it as you level. This is a good thing, and encourages people to go out into the world as they level alts and collect mats to sell to crafters. This is good for the economy. Don't undercut that entire system when other fixes could work.

Why not just analyze the leveling choke points and add a few easy-to-make recipes to circumvent the really bad grind points? It's not like the analysis would take long.

Google: <Profession> leveling guide
Click the first link
Read the number of mats listed per skill up
Note the ones that are very high (they're all at the max level breakpoints)
Devise a few level-appropriate shortcut recipes

Fix it the right way, please.
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6 Blood Elf Warlock
0
Whoa there, don't panic!

The low-level ores/bars will still have value and there still will be value in mining sub-Pandaria for a number of reasons.

Firstly, have you looked at how many ghost iron bars this will actually require? A metric poop-ton of them! The average bar price is around ~6g/bar now and it will almost certainly rise with the advent of 5.2 (thunder-forged item demand). It will costs thousands of gold to level only using ghost iron bars.

Classic bars such as thorium and mithril may still be the cheaper way to level blacksmithing thus low-level miners will still be able to sell these even when the changes come out.

Just a guess, but Blizz probably wants to eliminate bottlenecks in leveling blacksmithing by allowing players to sub ghost iron for materials that are too costly or are unavailable on the AH (I'm looking at you Obsidium/Cobalt Bars).

TLDR Version: The Ghost Iron Only Route may be more expensive way to level blacksmithing than using the classic mats

Prices referenced from the good goblins of the Undermine.
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02/01/2013 09:58 PMPosted by Aljin
(I'm looking at you Obsidium/Cobalt Bars)

You know, I never had a problem with obsidian or cobalt. It was thorium that was overfarmed.

Then again, I kill alliance going after my nodes.
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90 Human Monk
17840
I'm glad profession leveling is moving forward. Leveling grossly outpaces profession leveling and gathering right now, and pretty much everything you make from 1 to 525 is vendor food.

If anything, I'd just like to see old materials serving as exchange currency for ghost iron. The only use you'd have for mithril as a BS mat come 5.2 is to make old stuff for those that'd use it for mogging, which isn't really a market.
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90 Undead Warrior
14230
I like the idea under a few rules. It should always be more expensive doing it the easy way, IE using ghost iron. Make the mats rediculus, such as 500-750 Ghost iron bars to go from 1-100, maybe even 1000.

2. Make it for all professions. Have JCers make "Practice Cuts" on green and blue gems to level up and have it cost 1-5 of each green/blue gem to do. Have Enchanters do "feeding the blackmarket" where they turn in massive amounts of mats to the....users....of org/Stormwind, ect. Gathering professions would be interesting, but you could make "training areas" out in the wilderness that would sell "Useless Copper Ore" that you could place and then mine, for leatherworking a farm might need your expertise to make some leather to sell, but you have to pay them X amount per minute to do so.

3. It stops at the current max level minus 100 so you still need some old expansion mats to level up and all of this expansions.

4. Make the recpies themselevs cost a lot/the gathering nodes expensive to obtain.

5. Doing this would still require you to farm any and all non-trainer recipies.

6. Guild Perks do not count towards these items.

7. These items can't be equiped or sold for more than a few copper/silver.
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90 Pandaren Monk
14865
I still think Leatherworking is MUCH harder then blacksmithing to level, i've leveled blacksmithing on 2 characters one in BC and one in Wrath and neither was much of an issue

But LW just flat out sucked
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I still think Leatherworking is MUCH harder then blacksmithing to level, i've leveled blacksmithing on 2 characters one in BC and one in Wrath and neither was much of an issue

But LW just flat out sucked


I definitely agree, but it wasn't always this way. I leveled blacksmithing in vanilla and each subsequent expansion, and it used to suck hard in vanilla--I remember doing laps around Un'Goro and Burning Steppes for three days straight just to get the massive amounts of Thorium needed, some of that on a 60% ground mount, and a lot of competition. Flying mounts made farming ore really easy, much easier by Cata and a total joke in MoP.

Leather, on the other hand, was really easy in Vanilla (easier than tailoring or blacksmithing at least), but got more time consuming as the expansions wore on. I remember days of black morass farming for knothide because competition for leather out in the world was so high (anyone remember drum rotations for Sunwell? Yeah, that). Flying mounts don't help LW at all, as you still have to get down and dirty with the mobs, mostly on foot. And now in MoP if you want to make mail gear, you get to farm three to four times longer than those who make leather gear, thanks to the drop rates on Prismatic Scales. Sure, you can level to 600 on the leather pretty easily, but farming for your mail PvP starter set is god awful.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9995
My thoughts are really that it should be limited to max level (or close to max) like the cooking quests at half hill are. (or maybe they are not... Ive never tried to take a lvl 1 to halfhill...)

But if the recipes were offered via quest somewhere in pandaria (and not the capital cities that you can port to). I would see it as a good thing. Then it would not destroy the old world mats market as leveling players who actually want to level a profession would still have a need for the old mats. Lvl 90 players (who probably leveled as a duel gatherer) could easily switch to a crafting prof.

Yes, I have taken a duel gatherer to max lvl (it was 85 then) and then switched to BS/JC. That took an enormous amount of time gathering mats, and I wouldn't mind seeing it made easier.
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90 Orc Warrior
2145
My thoughts are really that it should be limited to max level (or close to max) like the cooking quests at half hill are. (or maybe they are not... Ive never tried to take a lvl 1 to halfhill...)

But if the recipes were offered via quest somewhere in pandaria (and not the capital cities that you can port to). I would see it as a good thing. Then it would not destroy the old world mats market as leveling players who actually want to level a profession would still have a need for the old mats. Lvl 90 players (who probably leveled as a duel gatherer) could easily switch to a crafting prof.

Yes, I have taken a duel gatherer to max lvl (it was 85 then) and then switched to BS/JC. That took an enormous amount of time gathering mats, and I wouldn't mind seeing it made easier.


I agree

Also wish they'd do this for Tailoring
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24 Tauren Druid
10320
Tailoring and LWing are a much harder and more boring grind then BSing. The only real hard choke points for BSing are fel iron and cobalt. You do need a lot of mithril and thorium, but both are cheap on the AH, and the respawn rates are so fast on those nodes, it doesn't take long at all to farm them yourself if you are poorish.

You need at least 700+ silk, 700+ runecloth, 700+ netherweave, 1100+ Frostweave, 900+ embersilk to get through tailoring, and you're never guaranteed a cloth drop when you kill a mob.

Leatherworking is a god awful nightmare, you need a boatload of thick leather, and after an hour of farming mobs, you have a bunch of heavy leather, heavy/thick hides, and then maybe a few thick leather. The leather is crazy expensive at low levels, because everyone knows its a horrible profession to farm for, so they basically can extort the gold out of you.

My guess would be BSing is getting this first, because of the return of the BC crafting weapons.
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