Why do you insist on ignoring us....

90 Troll Mage
9425
Were telling you're wrong, and you're insisting you're not. I can switch between specs Fire and Arcane, I'll spend the time enchanting and gemming correctly and their is a big gap in DPS between fire and arcane... any top contending mage can tell you that.

The problem is not raidbots or world of logs, it comes down to the player - and were all telling you that the dps nerf was severe - you continue to babble about internal tracking and raidbots, but obviously its not working.
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22 Tauren Druid
0
I agree with the op nerf arcane down to fire's level. But seriously devs don't usually read class forums. You would have a better shot at the dps forums.
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My mage just dinged 90 and I am seeing 20k-ish with fire and 40-45k with arcane. I have garbage gear but I can't image the gap is that big.
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90 Undead Mage
14540
You just dinged 90 and you're surprised that Fire isn't performing as well? You need to understand something, Fire is a heavy scaling spec. Always has been. You run headlong into it with crap for gear (which I worry you may have even left itemized for Arcane sensibilities), no kidding you're not gonna do as well. Arcane starts strong, but finishes wheezing every progression tier.
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
The ironic thing here that the majority of the player base says the Fire nerf was too hard and Arcane is OP now and Arcane should be brought down and/or Fire buffed up so that the two are on par for raiding.

Yet most players don't seem to give a crap about Frost which has pretty much been reduced to nothing at this point and next epic despite the slight buffs will probably still be worthless. With normal gear going up to 522 (I think?) next epic I seriously don't see Frost keeping up with the other specs at all for raiding.

Fire, despite its recent nerf probably still outperforms Frost when you scale properly. What does this say about Frost? That despite Fire being bashed on the head with a nerf hammer REALLY HARD, it's still actually superior to Frost.

So basically if you scale properly, for raiding it's Arcane > Fire > Frost.

Yet all the topics & popular opinion are directed to:

a. Nerf Arcane
b. Buff Fire

People assume Frost's buffs are more than enough to bring it on par, when actually it will probably bite the dust come 5.2
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Were telling you're wrong, and you're insisting you're not. I can switch between specs Fire and Arcane, I'll spend the time enchanting and gemming correctly and their is a big gap in DPS between fire and arcane... any top contending mage can tell you that.

The problem is not raidbots or world of logs, it comes down to the player - and were all telling you that the dps nerf was severe - you continue to babble about internal tracking and raidbots, but obviously its not working.


Why do you insist on cherry picking your information?

Arcane is getting nerfed in the next patch. Fact. Fire has, by design, a weaker single target in favor of a strong cleave. I lag a bit behind on some fights and absolutely destroy others. Seems to be working as intended to me.
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90 Troll Mage
9425
Fire can't beat arcane on any fight currently - even windlord. Right now as it stands, arcane is getting buffed in 5.2

Where do you get your information?
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90 Undead Mage
14540
Arcane is getting retooled and its mana juggling minigame is being made less exploitable. Once the spec is more in line with how it was intended to work, we'll see what kind of numbers come out. Not that people can stay at max stacks for a whole fight if RNG kisses them on the forehead.
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
Fire can't beat arcane on any fight currently - even windlord. Right now as it stands, arcane is getting buffed in 5.2

Where do you get your information?

Arcane isn't getting buffed, it's getting its mana management system reworked. This isn't necessarily a buff.

The only buffs I see are for Frost but then again they screwed up the pet's Freeze and still no sign of Water Jet so I don't know how Frost will fare come 5.2
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90 Troll Mage
9425
my current gear live vs ptr it's showing a strong buff... not to mention the affects of what less charges will have on cleave dmg.

Scorch weaving nerf and RoP nerf, would have left us at negative

but the charge reduction and dmg increase - changes up the game - a haste build is going to yield a buff without even scorch weaving.

Also people were under the misconception that scorch weaving yielded a huge dps increase to us - I think the difference was sub 3% increase.

I do expect some more tuning to be done to arcane though before it hits live.
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Just one example: https://twitter.com/FerRezz/status/290187900174356480

It may not be playing out as a nerf on PTR yet, but it's getting nerfed.
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90 Troll Mage
9425
Please go by the time line - GC states arcane overpowered is linked to being able to keep our charges (which he's wrong) - this twitter post was made before the revamps he just implemented on arcane.... which just like fire combustion will go live - theirs not doubt though we'll get nerfed in a host fix down the road.

Nothing has changed in the many year blizzard continues to go about balancing - mages will always be in a good place regardless.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
02/04/2013 09:53 AMPosted by Zensa
arcane is getting buffed in 5.2


Should probably rethink your position, because you're very wrong.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
02/04/2013 02:44 AMPosted by Breaktheice
Yet most players don't seem to give a crap about Frost which has pretty much been reduced to nothing at this point and next epic despite the slight buffs will probably still be worthless. With normal gear going up to 522 (I think?) next epic I seriously don't see Frost keeping up with the other specs at all for raiding.


"Still" be worthless? At the moment you can raid as Frost at all levels of content.
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90 Troll Mage
9425
i'm pulling higher numbers on PTR - had to reforge into a haste build though.
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
02/04/2013 04:09 PMPosted by Mahourai
Yet most players don't seem to give a crap about Frost which has pretty much been reduced to nothing at this point and next epic despite the slight buffs will probably still be worthless. With normal gear going up to 522 (I think?) next epic I seriously don't see Frost keeping up with the other specs at all for raiding.


"Still" be worthless? At the moment you can raid as Frost at all levels of content.


And always finish behind an Arcane mage in DPS. Yeap, seems legit.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
9795
The ironic thing here that the majority of the player base says the Fire nerf was too hard and Arcane is OP now and Arcane should be brought down and/or Fire buffed up so that the two are on par for raiding.

Yet most players don't seem to give a crap about Frost which has pretty much been reduced to nothing at this point and next epic despite the slight buffs will probably still be worthless. With normal gear going up to 522 (I think?) next epic I seriously don't see Frost keeping up with the other specs at all for raiding.

Fire, despite its recent nerf probably still outperforms Frost when you scale properly. What does this say about Frost? That despite Fire being bashed on the head with a nerf hammer REALLY HARD, it's still actually superior to Frost.

So basically if you scale properly, for raiding it's Arcane > Fire > Frost.

Yet all the topics & popular opinion are directed to:

a. Nerf Arcane
b. Buff Fire

People assume Frost's buffs are more than enough to bring it on par, when actually it will probably bite the dust come 5.2


I definitely agree with you, I think frost does need some more attention. I understand that frost is always the best pvp spec but what about those that like frost that don't pvp? I have always and will always play frost(whether I'm highest dps or not) but I wouldn't mind if the devs gave the spec a little more pve love.

Why should any spec be out performing another in the first place, they should all be on equal grounds.
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90 Human Priest
Zen
6530
Frost Frost Frost! I raided frost in DS, and man I had to do everything right to fight for a middle position on the dps meters.

I think the reason frost is always ignored is because its so hard to balance. Anything with high burst is tricky to balance, because the minute you buff the damage, it becomes game breaking in pvp, so I guess devs are content to keep it somewhat broken for pve, since mages have 2 other choice to raid with.

And yes you can raid at all levels with frost, but still, I don't want my mage several million damage behind other specs on world of logs even at normal raid levels.
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