Serious suggestions to help shadow PVE

Single-target shadow PVE needs a buff. Let's come up with some serious suggestions of ways to improve single target shadow PVE without making multi-dotting fights or PVP too overpowered.

I do think shadow needs a dps cooldown. I think that making Power Infusion a standard ability instead of a talent choice would be great. It's on a 2 min cd right now. I'd be ok with Blizz increasing it to 3 minutes if it were a standard spell and not a talent.

I also think that Shadow Word: Death should be castable all the time (remove that glyph from the game entirely) and generate one orb when used... 8 second cooldown. Even a ten second cd would be ok. Just give us *something* else we can cast while moving.

Also, buff mindflay by about 10-15%.
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90 Pandaren Priest
15080
Actually buffing mind flay, while it sounds good on paper, can throw T3 talents out of balance. Solace and insanity will be directly affected, but I guess they're still working on that. FDCL will be affected because the talent directly affects the uptime of mind flay, and a buff to mind flay would devalue this talent. Mindbender is the only talent unaffected, but two talents thrown out of balance is enough to mess up the whole tier.

A good suggestion for a quick fix on MMOC was to simply buff shadowform from 20% to 30%
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90 Undead Priest
7740
While I would love to see a 10% overall buff, that would be insane in PvP.

Honestly I think it's the ShadowOrb mechanic what's holding S.Priest back, or rather, it's relation to Devouring Plague. The rate they build is so slow, it completely prevents reliable damage. I've always thought it was strange that D.Plague, our hardest hitting ability, accounts for less overall damage than our other abilities.

Personally, I'd like to see Glyph of M.Spike removed, and Glyph of D.Plague added.

  • Glyph of Devouring Plague - Devouring Plague's duration is increased to 15 seconds, and now deals it's damage evenly throughout it's duration. However, this ability no longer heals the Priest per Shadow orb, but rather heals the group for 5% of all Shadow damage dealt by the Priest for it's duration.
  • This would give back the VE-like feel that many Shadow Priests miss, while helping DP benefit more reliably from Mastery and the new Insanity talent. In addition, this glyph wouldn't be used in PvP, because of the healing and burst component loss, even if it's a large DPS boost.

    But that's just what I would do. You could easily drop the VE part, and it would still be a massive PvE improvement while remaining a PvP "non-buff", I honestly just added that as an homage to the original VE, and my nostalgia for that sort of "flavor" skill.
    Edited by Kyzr on 2/5/2013 5:20 PM PST
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    90 Troll Priest
    3595
    I never reply on here but id like to say i really love the suggestion by Kyzr. Please blizzard do something to increase the generation of orbs/ bring back our group healing (not on a large cooldown). Love the idea Kyzr you have my vote
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    90 Goblin Priest
    5730
    i dont think ANYONE disagrees about Spriest needing single target DPS buff. even if i play a PERFECT fight, without ANY downtime, and perfect reaction time, hitting all of my spells properly, i still get out-dps'd by people half paying attention with equal or even slightly lesser gear. its insulting. its making me turn my alt into my new main
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    90 Human Priest
    8565
    While I would love to see a 10% overall buff, that would be insane in PvP.

    Honestly I think it's the ShadowOrb mechanic what's holding S.Priest back, or rather, it's relation to Devouring Plague. The rate they build is so slow, it completely prevents reliable damage. I've always thought it was strange that D.Plague, our hardest hitting ability, accounts for less overall damage than our other abilities.

    Personally, I'd like to see Glyph of M.Spike removed, and Glyph of D.Plague added.

  • Glyph of Devouring Plague - Devouring Plague's duration is increased to 15 seconds, and now deals it's damage evenly throughout it's duration. However, this ability no longer heals the Priest per Shadow orb, but rather heals the group for 5% of all Shadow damage dealt by the Priest for it's duration.
  • This would give back the VE-like feel that many Shadow Priests miss, while helping DP benefit more reliably from Mastery and the new Insanity talent. In addition, this glyph wouldn't be used in PvP, because of the healing and burst component loss, even if it's a large DPS boost.


    Ding Ding Ding!!

    Also adding I finally got my 2 set and do see a nice increase but still not enough.
    I haven't seen many posts about the 4 set. I have a LFR robe I'm holding in my vault in the event I should be so lucky as to score the helm. Does anyone who has played with the PW:S talent wearing the 4 set have anything useful to add?
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    90 Human Priest
    9310
    I think our dots could use a small (not huge) buff to IMHO. On fights with multiple targets we are far from over powered. We do real good in LFR because we can sit and tank/spank most of the fights. Once you start doing normal and heroic we drop down on the meters because we must move a lot more. Our dots don't tick for much so we suffer a lot from movement.

    Some changes to Glyphs would be nice as we really don't have a single one that actually increases our DPS. Glyph of MS was slightly nice on movement fights but now that one will be useless.

    I don't think our DPS in PVP is a problem. Other classes put out far more burst and even single target damage. The problem is VS and our CC talent tier has made it a little harder for melee to just steam roll us. Nerf our CC and VS and we can go back to being free HKs and everyone will be happy
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    90 Tauren Druid
    4305
    Kyzr has an excellent suggestion. Perhaps the best one that we'll see in this thread. It buffs our PVE damage adequately without affecting PVP negatively.

    A few more ideas I'd like to add:

    - Give SW:D a chance to reset the cooldown on shadowfiend. It would give us a moderate boost to DPS without affecting PvP too drastically.

    - SW:D now spawns shadows the same way SW:P crits do. Our shadows are kind of wonky in PvP anyways, so I don't see the harm in it.

    - New passive ability: Cast Shadow. You cast a powerful shadow that gathers strength from nearby allies. You gain a 1% bonus to shadow damage for each player within 15 yards. Stacks up to 10 times. In PvP this would be a very unreliable ability, since it has such a short range. For 2v2's and 3v3's, the bonus wouldn't even be noticeable. In PvE however, we could always maintain at *least* a 5% buff from the other ranged casters/healers in our group, and another 5% if you can position near meleers too. This alone ought to get us from 92k to ~100k DPS.
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    90 Tauren Druid
    4305
    Bump. Bit disappointed people aren't offering more suggestions.
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    90 Human Priest
    9310
    They could give our shadowy apparitions a chance to proc Orbs. How about that? They seem to love shadowy apparitions.
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    90 Worgen Priest
    2780
    I don't really like the shadow orb idea at all. I don't like having to wait 20ish seconds into each fight to cast my 6 sec dot. DP is an awesome skill, I'd love for it to have better uptime. I think making shadowform give 10% extra dmg to non player targets would probably be the easiest fix, that way mind flay's dmg gets increased, our dots do more dmg and that will help our single target dps.

    I would also be happy to be able to cast mind flay while moving since they're nerfing glyph of mind spike. Our mobile dps is terrible and the ability to cast a 3 orb SW:I mind flay while running would be incredibly useful since a lot of current bosses require heavy movement.
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    15305
    02/05/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Kyzr
    I've always thought it was strange that D.Plague, our hardest hitting ability, accounts for less overall damage than our other abilities.


    If you add the DoT to the direct damage it should end up on the top by a decent %, if not in the top 3 abilities depending on the fight and RNG.

    SW:D now spawns shadows the same way SW:P crits do. Our shadows are kind of wonky in PvP anyways, so I don't see the harm in it.


    02/07/2013 09:32 PMPosted by Zebedeo
    They could give our shadowy apparitions a chance to proc Orbs


    No, no no no nonononononoooooooooooooooooooooo

    Apparitions are dumb, they are bad, they are inane and arbitrary. It's a stupid mechanic that some dev thought was totally awesome so they won't get rid of it. Please put the damage back into SW:P.

    02/05/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Kyzr
    Honestly I think it's the ShadowOrb mechanic what's holding S.Priest back


    Shadow Orbs should just be removed completely but since they won't do that I guess it doesn't hurt to rework things. Unfortunately the devs generally don't take into consideration what we put in the class forums.

    It would be great if they reverted all the changes they made in MoP. Bring back Dark Archangel/Evangelism, bring back the old mastery, bring back Mind Flay reducing the CD on Shadowfiend. They really hurt the spec in a lot of ways all in the name of "cool ideas" and "new abilities". Look at where we were at the end of DS compared to where we are now. People complained about the RNG back in Cata but look at us. We depend almost entirely on RNG outside of renewing DoTs and Mindflay.
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    90 Night Elf Priest
    7540
    No, no no no nonononononoooooooooooooooooooooo

    Apparitions are dumb, they are bad, they are inane and arbitrary. It's a stupid mechanic that some dev thought was totally awesome so they won't get rid of it. Please put the damage back into SW:P.


    This might not be too bad of a suggestion. Devs have commented that they completely reworked the Apparition AI. They say that they will retarget enemies if theirs despawns (the only problem with them right now.)

    Also, the apparitions didn't really bug out THAT much. They account for less than 5% of our damage normally, Only my most recent log for Blade Lord Tay'ak, 51 Apparitions hit Tay'ak, when I had 64 total crits with Mind Flay. So that's 64 that should have spawned not including the 3 apparition cap, which is being removed.

    Some final calculations:
    Apparitions did 3.8% of my damage on this fight (Tay'ak)
    If aprx 80% (79.69%) of my possible apparitions hit the target, I am missing 20.3% of my Apparitions' damage. 20.3% of 3.8% means I missed 0.77% of my total DPS because of capped or broken Apparitions.

    On that fight I did 69918.1 effective dps for that fight, which means I lost 538.37 dps because of "Terrible Apparition Mechanic that is detrimental to our dps."

    TL;DR, Apparitions don't bug enought to cause a big problem with our dps. But that Shadow Orb generation could be huge.
    Reply Quote
    90 Pandaren Priest
    12910
    While I would love to see a 10% overall buff, that would be insane in PvP.

    Honestly I think it's the ShadowOrb mechanic what's holding S.Priest back, or rather, it's relation to Devouring Plague. The rate they build is so slow, it completely prevents reliable damage. I've always thought it was strange that D.Plague, our hardest hitting ability, accounts for less overall damage than our other abilities.

    Personally, I'd like to see Glyph of M.Spike removed, and Glyph of D.Plague added.

  • Glyph of Devouring Plague - Devouring Plague's duration is increased to 15 seconds, and now deals it's damage evenly throughout it's duration. However, this ability no longer heals the Priest per Shadow orb, but rather heals the group for 5% of all Shadow damage dealt by the Priest for it's duration.
  • This would give back the VE-like feel that many Shadow Priests miss, while helping DP benefit more reliably from Mastery and the new Insanity talent. In addition, this glyph wouldn't be used in PvP, because of the healing and burst component loss, even if it's a large DPS boost.

    But that's just what I would do. You could easily drop the VE part, and it would still be a massive PvE improvement while remaining a PvP "non-buff", I honestly just added that as an homage to the original VE, and my nostalgia for that sort of "flavor" skill.


    Your idea is great, I would also like to see glyph of mind spike removed, since it will become useless if nerf goes live.
    The glyph of DP would not be use in PvP for loss of burst, and one thing you forgot to mention is, its loss of damage completly since it can be easily dispelled, like it was the case when they try to make it a dot before.

    Another thing i think of is (I have not tested it yet so am not sure if it happens already) having our T15 2 set bonus increase or give DP an extra tick too when shadowy apparitions hit target, and please make it be a 100% chance for an extra tick, after testing T15 2 set bonus in PTR seems like 65% chance for an extra tick on dots wont make it strong enough for Shadow Priest to have tiear at all
    Right now am hating SPriest T14 completly for being locked to a useless spell like Insanity for 5.0 and 5.1, and am only using 2 pieces of tier for its haste componet, would not like to see the same thing with locking tier bonus to a useless/ lowst damage spell like apparitions.

    One more thing, out of topic here, but our D.Plague just got nerf (I know we just got nerfed again).
    when GC grabs that bat he doesnt stop untill class is done for. : )
    Edited by Lykorys on 2/9/2013 6:41 AM PST
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    90 Troll Priest
    10360
    While I would love to see a 10% overall buff, that would be insane in PvP.

    Honestly I think it's the ShadowOrb mechanic what's holding S.Priest back, or rather, it's relation to Devouring Plague. The rate they build is so slow, it completely prevents reliable damage. I've always thought it was strange that D.Plague, our hardest hitting ability, accounts for less overall damage than our other abilities.

    Personally, I'd like to see Glyph of M.Spike removed, and Glyph of D.Plague added.

  • Glyph of Devouring Plague - Devouring Plague's duration is increased to 15 seconds, and now deals it's damage evenly throughout it's duration. However, this ability no longer heals the Priest per Shadow orb, but rather heals the group for 5% of all Shadow damage dealt by the Priest for it's duration.
  • This would give back the VE-like feel that many Shadow Priests miss, while helping DP benefit more reliably from Mastery and the new Insanity talent. In addition, this glyph wouldn't be used in PvP, because of the healing and burst component loss, even if it's a large DPS boost.

    But that's just what I would do. You could easily drop the VE part, and it would still be a massive PvE improvement while remaining a PvP "non-buff", I honestly just added that as an homage to the original VE, and my nostalgia for that sort of "flavor" skill.


    Your idea is great, I would also like to see glyph of mind spike removed, since it will become useless if nerf goes live.
    The glyph of DP would not be use in PvP for loss of burst, and one thing you forgot to mention is, its loss of damage completly since it can be easily dispelled, like it was the case when they try to make it a dot before.

    Another thing i think of is (I have not tested it yet so am not sure if it happens already) having our T15 2 set bonus increase or give DP an extra tick too when shadowy apparitions hit target, and please make it be a 100% chance for an extra tick, after testing T15 2 set bonus in PTR seems like 65% chance for an extra tick on dots wont make it strong enough for Shadow Priest to have tiear at all
    Right now am hating SPriest T14 completly for being locked to a useless spell like Insanity for 5.0 and 5.1, and am only using 2 pieces of tier for its haste componet, would not like to see the same thing with locking tier bonus to a useless/ lowst damage spell like apparitions.

    One more thing, out of topic here, but our D.Plague just got nerf (I know we just got nerfed again).
    when GC grabs that bat he doesnt stop untill class is done for. : )


    I agree that I do not like our t15 set bonuses tied to SA

    But our t14 is not "locked" to insanity: the only reason insanity is buffed by it is because the 4piece is a direct nerf to insanity it by extending the duration of SW:P. The buff is just to offset that nerf. The 4 piece is still a damage increase for us just for the extra dot duration.
    Edited by Syn on 2/9/2013 7:22 AM PST
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    90 Pandaren Priest
    12910
    I agree that I do not like our t15 set bonuses tied to SA

    But our t14 is not "locked" to insanity: the only reason insanity is buffed by it is because the 4piece is a direct nerf to insanity it by extending the duration of SW:P. The buff is just to offset that nerf. The 4 piece is still a damage increase for us just for the extra dot duration.


    Well I had 4 tier set, then drop them to get more int gems, and started picking Heroic gear instead, the 3 sec dot increase is in no means a DPS increase at all, since most of my DPS comes from other spells.
    But you are right the buff to insanity compensates for it, but seriously blizzard gives our set bonus to our lowest damaging spells like our dots, and now apparitions.
    Edited by Lykorys on 2/9/2013 2:44 PM PST
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    90 Pandaren Priest
    7565
    Did you just say the 3 sec duration increase on our dots is not a dps increase? How did you possibly come to that conclusion?
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    90 Undead Priest
    6665
    02/09/2013 03:16 PMPosted by Dictainabox
    Did you just say the 3 sec duration increase on our dots is not a dps increase? How did you possibly come to that conclusion?


    Why I don't take half the people on Bnet forums srsly >_>
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    90 Pandaren Priest
    7565
    02/09/2013 03:17 PMPosted by Cheesecake
    Did you just say the 3 sec duration increase on our dots is not a dps increase? How did you possibly come to that conclusion?


    Why I don't take half the people on Bnet forums srsly >_>


    Even if you accept his assertion that most of his damage comes from other spells, and a quick perusal of high end shadow priest logs show how bs this assertion is, common sense would indicate that the less time you spend refreshing these dots means the more time you have to cast these other spells. What an idiot.
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    90 Undead Priest
    6665
    02/09/2013 03:22 PMPosted by Dictainabox
    Even if you accept his assertion that most of his damage comes from other spells, and a quick perusal of high end shadow priest logs show how bs this assertion is, common sense would indicate that the less time you spend refreshing these dots means the more time you have to cast these other spells. What an idiot.


    yup.

    Wish people would stop posting an essay when they don't even get basics of dpsing.
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