All races are now in a FFA?

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90 Gnome Priest
6860


Eastern Kingdoms would honestly just basically implode lol.

Plus you guys are discounting the Blood Elves a little to quick. They have the Sunwell and could use this as a very powerful power source for them.

Didn't the Elves used to have some sort of barrier system?


Which failed, and the forsaken leader is a high elf she knows how it works.


Failed against Arthas and the scourge.

The forsaken is just a small band of undead, plus she may know how it used to work but it wouldn't surprised me if they changed it to some degree since she is the leader of the Forsaken.

I'm just providing a point of view for the Blood Elves since I don't like how Rufin and you are just basically throwing them away like they wouldn't put up much of a fight.
90 Orc Warlock
5980


Which failed, and the forsaken leader is a high elf she knows how it works.


Failed against Arthas and the scourge.

The forsaken is just a small band of undead, plus she may know how it used to work but it wouldn't surprised me if they changed it to some degree since she is the leader of the Forsaken.

I'm just providing a point of view for the Blood Elves since I don't like how Rufin and you are just basically throwing them away like they wouldn't put up much of a fight.


We are throwing them away because they would have been wiped out if they were alone that is why they joined the the Horde, and The new plague melts your face.
02/06/2013 05:01 PMPosted by Darmonic
We already said no neutral factions, because then we have to add in the black rock orcs and quilboars and so forth.


So that only takes out the Argents. Still too much for the Forsaken to go through.
90 Human Paladin
17285
02/06/2013 04:31 PMPosted by Rufyn
But I will uphold that the Forsaken would rule the EK if there were no neutrals and it was entirely up for grabs.


In Tides of War, Sylvanas expressed her concern that the Alliance forces in the Eastern Kingdoms might attack (and destroy) the Forsaken in retaliation for the destruction of Theramore.

Ironforge and Stormwind are somewhat stronger than Gilneas was.
90 Gnome Priest
6860


Failed against Arthas and the scourge.

The forsaken is just a small band of undead, plus she may know how it used to work but it wouldn't surprised me if they changed it to some degree since she is the leader of the Forsaken.

I'm just providing a point of view for the Blood Elves since I don't like how Rufin and you are just basically throwing them away like they wouldn't put up much of a fight.


We are throwing them away because they would have been wiped out if they were alone that is why they joined the the Horde, and The new plague melts your face.


I know they are still somewhat struggling but I would imagine by now at this point they are somewhat self sustaining.

Also I hate this stupid Plague the Forsaken have.

Still a little crappy you guys are just discounting the Blood Elves.
90 Orc Warlock
5980
02/06/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Egrem
But I will uphold that the Forsaken would rule the EK if there were no neutrals and it was entirely up for grabs.


In Tides of War, Sylvanas expressed her concern that the Alliance forces in the Eastern Kingdoms might attack (and destroy) the Forsaken in retaliation for the destruction of Theramore.

Ironforge and Stormwind are somewhat stronger than Gilneas was.


Do you not understand Free for all, The Humans, Dwarves and gnomes are all enemies.
90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
Darmonic, you're skewing everything towards what you want by amplifying the forsakens strengths, minimizing it's weaknesses and eliminating any strengths the other races might have. You're heavily stacking the deck for the forsaken.

If this is a free for all, then ALL of the strengths and weaknesses of ALL of the races. You can't pick and chose what is applicable or not. An example is:
02/06/2013 04:19 PMPosted by Darmonic
Not really they are stuck in the Nether and the Naaru dies and absorbs all their souls.
You're just deciding that a race you don't like automatically loses.

You need to take into account the strengths of the races. The dwarves strengths is their homeland, a highly defensible series of tunnels, they have only one gate in and out of their main city, they have a population that hasn't been hardly touched by the trials and tribulations of every other race in the game. They are a long ways away from any major enemy forces. They have a highly efficient industrial military industry. Lastly, the Tram that connects SW and IF could be collapsed with explosives.

The gnomes would be, sadly, finished off quickly. They have no defensible city and have a very small population. They'd put up a good fight but would lose fairly fast.

Humanity might set up and fortify it's positions, expanding south and sending ships and armies west and north, but it takes time to get to dwarven lands, and they'd face the same problems the forsaken would face. Attacking highly defensible tunnels, forts and choke points.

The forsaken would show some initial successes, but get bogged down in the Wetlands, Loch Modan and Dun Moroh(?). Unless they bypassed the dwarven lands and went straight for Stormwind,d in which case it would be a case of mutual slaughter. Just because the forsaken are fighting humans, doesn't mean they'd win. It's 50/50 at best. Especially since the humans would have paladins who are -very- effective against the undead.

In Kalimdor the trolls would be wiped out fast. There's not a lot of them left.

The orcs would fight until their strength was spent and they were slaughtered. It's very likely the orcs would attack everyone. Troll, tauren and Night elf.

The problem with orcs with the Night elves is the orcs have to fight their way across the entire continent, then up the coast, then assault a city on top of a massive tree. This gives the Night elves a huge amount of ground to do bleed the orcs white. They'd have very long lines of communication and supply. Lines that could be cut easily.

The worgen would probably lose. There aren't enough of them to bother the Night elves that much in Kalimdor.

The tauren would close off Mulgor and clean house there, then wait, while the goblins just blew themselves up.

This is assuming that every race had a suicidal death wish. If it was every race suddenly was consumed by the need to attack the other races, it would end up with everyone dead. If it was every race was suddenly on their own and they didn't have a suicidal death wish, then it would probably be much more like I pointed out. You're making the assumption that -every- race would suddenly want to rule the world and be inclined to a genocidal mania.
90 Night Elf Hunter
5420


Failed against Arthas and the scourge.

The forsaken is just a small band of undead, plus she may know how it used to work but it wouldn't surprised me if they changed it to some degree since she is the leader of the Forsaken.

I'm just providing a point of view for the Blood Elves since I don't like how Rufin and you are just basically throwing them away like they wouldn't put up much of a fight.


We are throwing them away because they would have been wiped out if they were alone that is why they joined the the Horde, and The new plague melts your face.


You're also assuming that they would not have rebuilt those defenses and that the forsaken know of those defenses. Those are some big assumptions.
90 Human Paladin
17285
02/06/2013 05:12 PMPosted by Haely
Still a little crappy you guys are just discounting the Blood Elves.


The blood elves are a nearly extinct race - their total population is only around 7% of what they had a decade ago. They can barely maintain their own kingdom, much less conquer another.

02/06/2013 05:23 PMPosted by Darmonic
Do you not understand Free for all, The Humans, Dwarves and gnomes are all enemies.


The gnomes lost 80% of their population when they lost Gnomeregan. They now have only a small encampment at New Tinkertown. The dwarves could clear them out in five minutes.

The dwarves could then march north and roll over the Forsaken.

Stormwind couldn't do much to Ironforge - Dun Morogh is surrounded by mountains (making Stormwind's navy useless), the dwarves have control of the skies (thanks to their gryphon riders and flying machines) and any land-based invasion would have to pass through easily defensible tunnels and choke points.
90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
02/06/2013 05:01 PMPosted by Darmonic
Also the Worgen are meant to fight Demons and undead and lost gilneas... the blood fang is dead, they got pushed all the way out of Silverpine so the worgen are actually not that great... I mean their world is supposedly lost to the legion.


What the hell are you talking about? The worgen are meant to fight demons? Where did you get that idea? What world are you talking about that they lost?
90 Gnome Priest
6860
The blood elves are a nearly extinct race - their total population is only around 7% of what they had a decade ago. They can barely maintain their own kingdom, much less conquer another.


That's not fair to use population as a deciding factor to how fast they would be conquered.

Population gives an advantage but that doesn't mean you should forget the advances in Magic that Blood/High Elves have over other races. Or the fact they have the freaking Sunwell, a fountain of near limitless power.

I'm not trying to say they would win, but don't just discount them because they have an extremely small population.

Same with Gnomes in saying they could be wiped out in minutes. That's bull crap and you know it. Gnomes have amazing technology and a very high intelligence. The Technology the Alliance has is because of the Gnomes, sure Dwarves had some input but a large majority of the technology was contributed by Gnomes and who knows what else they have stuck up their sleeve.
90 Orc Warlock
5980
Also the Worgen are meant to fight Demons and undead and lost gilneas... the blood fang is dead, they got pushed all the way out of Silverpine so the worgen are actually not that great... I mean their world is supposedly lost to the legion.


What the hell are you talking about? The worgen are meant to fight demons? Where did you get that idea? What world are you talking about that they lost?


That is why they summoned them with the scythe, and why Argual summoned them when the undead came.

Also I do feel like the dwarves are a very strong enemy but honestly the TRAM is a weakness to Stormwind and the Ironforge.

@kyrnid. It isn't profitable to blow yourselves up you are saying the goblins would all just commit suicide and not even fight, and the night elves would be able to shrug of an internal worgen problem and external draenei problem.

My vote goes for the humans just because they are so secluded.

02/06/2013 05:47 PMPosted by Haely
The blood elves are a nearly extinct race - their total population is only around 7% of what they had a decade ago. They can barely maintain their own kingdom, much less conquer another.


That's not fair to use population as a deciding factor to how fast they would be conquered.

Population gives an advantage but that doesn't mean you should forget the advances in Magic that Blood/High Elves have over other races. Or the fact they have the freaking Sunwell, a fountain of near limitless power.

I'm not trying to say they would win, but don't just discount them because they have an extremely small population.

Same with Gnomes in saying they could be wiped out in minutes. That's bull crap and you know it. Gnomes have amazing technology and a very high intelligence. The Technology the Alliance has is because of the Gnomes, sure Dwarves had some input but a large majority of the technology was contributed by Gnomes and who knows what else they have stuck up their sleeve.


She is right.
Edited by Darmonic on 9/1/2013 5:01 PM PDT
90 Human Paladin
17285
02/06/2013 05:47 PMPosted by Haely
Population gives an advantage but that doesn't mean you should forget the advances in Magic that Blood/High Elves have over other races.


Is that why most of the best magic-users have been humans (Aegwynn, Ansirem, Antonidas, Arugal, Drenden, Jaina, Karlain, Kel'Thuzad, Khadgar, Medivh, Meryl, Modera, Nielas, Rhonin, Vargoth, etc.)?

There aren't all that many high/blood elven magi who would qualify as notable characters - maybe Aethas, Anasterian, Dar'Khan, Dath'Remar, Kael'thas, Rommath and Voren'thal.

Dalaran is just a city-state - one that was sacked by the Scourge and destroyed by the Legion - and its magi are still more than a match for anything the kingdom of Quel'Thalas can conjure up.

02/06/2013 05:47 PMPosted by Haely
Same with Gnomes in saying they could be wiped out in minutes. That's bull crap and you know it. Gnomes have amazing technology and a very high intelligence.


For all their intelligence and technology, the gnomes remain stymied by troggs and crazed lepers.

Their numbers are very limited, they don't have much combat experience relative to other races, and they have no defensible bases (New Tinkertown is little more than a collection of tents and huts). They're valuable allies when supporting the dwarves or humans, but they're simply not equipped to take on a full-blown army by themselves.
90 Orc Warlock
5980
But the Strongest mage is Azshara.
90 Draenei Paladin
16995
Not to derail but when I saw this title all I could think of was "Wait, we're all in Future Farmers of America?"
90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
That is why they summoned them with the scythe, and why Argual summoned them when the undead came.

Also I do feel like the dwarves are a very strong enemy but honestly the TRAM is a weakness to Stormwind and the Ironforge.

@kyrnid. It isn't profitable to blow yourselves up you are saying the goblins would all just commit suicide and not even fight, and the night elves would be able to shrug of an internal worgen problem and external draenei problem.

My vote goes for the humans just because they are so secluded.


As it turns out, they were not summoned from another world. The archmage Ur and Arugal managed to reach into a part of the Emerald dream and Arugal summoned those worgen (cursed Night elven druids) and that's how they got out. The Scythe was used to help Sentinel Velinde Starsong to help her fight the demons of the Felwood.

In both instances they were called to help fight. They would fight anything. Demons, undead, living, robots, they don't care. They love to fight and be wild animals.

Goblins love explosives. Goblin explosives and devices are highly unstable and it's very likely they would blow themselves up. You're also having this FFA as all of the races suddenly attacking everyone else for some unknown reason, which means, the goblins would not be looking for profit, but to take over the Azeroth world market by wiping out every other race.

With the Night elves, you are assuming the few worgen in Darnassus would be a problem and that Shandris wouldn't be able to kill the worgen that are in her army. You're also assuming the draenei would be a threat. The population of the Azuremyst isle is tiny and the Exodar doesn't have any weapons. To attack anyone, the draenei would have to leave the isle somehow. They do not have ships, so it can't be by sailing. Portals would be ineffective for invasions.

Oh! I know who was forgotten for the humans. Dalaran. That would even the odds up a lot. It is an Alliance alined city and organization (the Kirin Tor are Alliance now, not neutral anymore. :D So they get added to the human mix.)
Edited by Kynrind on 2/6/2013 6:32 PM PST
90 Human Monk
2350
I'd put my money on the Forsaken. They're the only "race" that is willing to do what is necessary to win a war with minimal casualties to themselves. They have no honor code, no sympathy, and an entire section of their population dedicated to making chemical weapons.

Sylvanas is also cunning. She would play the situation to her favour, making temporary alliances where necessary and launching surprise attacks when necessary.
Edited by Draile on 2/6/2013 6:40 PM PST
90 Gnome Priest
6860
Is that why most of the best magic-users have been humans (Aegwynn, Ansirem, Antonidas, Arugal, Drenden, Jaina, Karlain, Kel'Thuzad, Khadgar, Medivh, Meryl, Modera, Nielas, Rhonin, Vargoth, etc.)?

There aren't all that many high/blood elven magi who would qualify as notable characters - maybe Aethas, Anasterian, Dar'Khan, Dath'Remar, Kael'thas, Rommath and Voren'thal.

Dalaran is just a city-state - one that was sacked by the Scourge and destroyed by the Legion - and its magi are still more than a match for anything the kingdom of Quel'Thalas can conjure up.


I never claimed they had some of the strongest magic users. I just said don't discount all the knowledge and experience they have accumulated over the thousands of years of being magic users. Although I could see how it seemed I implied that.

I was meaning more that each race uses magic in a different way, different spells and how to manipulate magic and I would imagine that Blood Elves would have many different ways to manipulate magic that other races don't know. It works both ways too, I'm not meaning to dispute that either.

I just don't like how you guys are just assuming since they have a low population, they would be conquered exceedingly easy.

Now take this example for a second and imagine you are a Blood Elf Magi using the Power of the Sunwell to try and fend off the Forsaken that are knocking down your doors and you know your going to die, what would you do?

I would personally do whatever I could to try and implode the Sunwell and cause a huge explosion that could rip away land and wipe out everything in the Vicinity. Can you possibly imagine what the Forsaken would do with the power of the Sunwell, without resistance from Blood Elves anymore if they should wipe them out completley? That's a freaking terrifying prospect. Would you succeed? Who knows, just trying to give some sort of example and scenario to this FFA war.

For all their intelligence and technology, the gnomes remain stymied by troggs and crazed lepers.

Their numbers are very limited, they don't have much combat experience relative to other races, and they have no defensible bases (New Tinkertown is little more than a collection of tents and huts). They're valuable allies when supporting the dwarves or humans, but they're simply not equipped to take on a full-blown army by themselves.


Yea well I call freaking bull crap on that, Gnomeregan should of been taken back a long freaking time ago and cleansed but Blizzard didn't want to take the initiative or unbalance the Horde and Alliance Cities.

Like I said in my previous post, I'm not trying to say the Gnomes would win a fight against the Dwarves, but don't just discount everything about them. It's crap that you just throw them to the side saying we would be conquered in five minutes without looking at all possible angles to the war.

Like I said before what if the Gnomes used their situation in Gnomeregan in the fight against the Dwarves? I'm just providing an example of what could happen.
90 Human Monk
2350
Also, second to the Forsaken, I'd give the edge to the Night Elves. They don't do poison and what not, but they are pragmatic and have a very old, war-based society that essentially birthed the culture that grew into Sylvanas's.
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