Andorhal, Stormgarde, Alliance

90 Human Priest
15115
Well there needs to be some diversity. My plan is just a way for that to happen, Stormgarde doesn't even need to be a "capital" city, just a bastion for the fight against the Horde in the North. I would love it, however, if they did make it more than just a regular other city and gave it some flavor and depth.

I want to like to fight for the alliance, but I can't. I can't because we haven't won a major offensive to recapture or conquer in a long time. In fact, we retreat more than any other faction. (or passive...)
Edited by Mestre on 2/7/2013 2:08 PM PST
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100 Tauren Shaman
14190
I think the best you can hope for in this war is the alliances campaign against Org at the end of this expac. After that the war will probably cool and we wont be seeing any major land shifts for some time.

Even if that were not the case, Blizz as pretty much said they arent going to be going back and redoing old zones for a long time. Im afraid its unlikely Stromgarde will get any love any time soon.
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100 Human Paladin
11050
02/07/2013 02:01 PMPosted by Grimauna
And that's part of the problem. In WC2 you had multiple nations/clans which a lot of people had their favorites such as Stromgarde, Lordaeron Kul Tiras etc. But now it makes no sense why we are ignoring them and just have Stormwind which is full of refugees from nearly every human kingdom.


Because different cultures are hard. Homogenization and racial hats are easy. And there are 11 playable races and 40 odd nonplayable.


Which is boring.
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90 Orc Warlock
10490
02/07/2013 02:13 PMPosted by Gollard
Which is boring.


And lazy. Don't forget that. I'd love it to matter which clan you were from as an Orc, or what Tauren tribe and so on, but it's unlikely to ever occur.

And as for Stromgarde, I'd love the humans to take it. It'd force Sylvannus to be on her toes, open up a new human flight point that's not literally a pit, and actually give the humans a win. I think your last victory was Camp Taurajo.
Edited by Grimauna on 2/7/2013 2:35 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20725
And lazy. Don't forget that. I'd love it to matter which clan you were from as an Orc, or what Tauren tribe and so on, but it's unlikely to ever occur.

And as for Stromgarde, I'd love the humans to take it. It'd force Sylvannus to be on her toes, open up a new human flight point that's not literally a pit, and actually give the humans a win. I think your last victory was Camp Taurajo.


We won Jade forest pretty much 100%. Horde lost their airship and 99% of all troops, Alliance lost nothing, and the reason only a small group of Alliance is in Jade forest is because they think they won, and only leave a scouting force. They took their completely intact fleet back to SW to go get even more troops, while the Horde were all busy being dead.

Also, Alliance won Dalaran, August Celestials are on their side, as are the Jinyu, and the Monkey king...immortal leader of all Hozen. So basically every Pandarian faction is Horde now.

ALSO, there's the 2 scenarios. "A little patience" where Alliance beats the evil Horde, and "Dagger in the Dark" where neutral players beat the evil Horde.
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90 Orc Warlock
10490
02/07/2013 02:55 PMPosted by Threeslotbag
We won Jade forest pretty much 100%. Horde lost their airship and 99% of all troops, Alliance lost nothing, and the reason only a small group of Alliance is in Jade forest is because they think they won, and only leave a scouting force. They took their completely intact fleet back to SW to go get even more troops, while the Horde were all busy being dead.


I think the Airship wiped out an entrenched, fortified alliance base on the north side of the forest before crashing, and destroyed the northern airfield. I think think they zero summed between the forest hozen and the jinyu reinforcements. Pretty sure it's a draw.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20725
02/07/2013 03:17 PMPosted by Grimauna
I think the Airship wiped out an entrenched, fortified alliance base on the north side of the forest before crashing, and destroyed the northern airfield. I think think they zero summed between the forest hozen and the jinyu reinforcements. Pretty sure it's a draw.


The Airbase was a single Alliance ship that got lost, their main fleet was totally fine.

All the Hozen and Jinyu died in Jade forest, but the Horde player recruited Hozen because all the Horde were dead, the Alliance player recruited Jinyu because all the Alliance went back to SW.

Also, in later Alliance quests the Jinyu and Hozen join the Alliance.
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90 Human Priest
15115
02/07/2013 03:48 PMPosted by Threeslotbag
I think the Airship wiped out an entrenched, fortified alliance base on the north side of the forest before crashing, and destroyed the northern airfield. I think think they zero summed between the forest hozen and the jinyu reinforcements. Pretty sure it's a draw.


The Airbase was a single Alliance ship that got lost, their main fleet was totally fine.

All the Hozen and Jinyu died in Jade forest, but the Horde player recruited Hozen because all the Horde were dead, the Alliance player recruited Jinyu because all the Alliance went back to SW.

Also, in later Alliance quests the Jinyu and Hozen join the Alliance.


Non of that points to any alliance victory that is worth remembering. They are all skirmishes, and overall don't move the tipping point towards the alliance at all. The alliance get pushed back on terrain that ACTUALLY matters. In the end, no one will care about Pandaria, probably because there won't be any "capital" city or human nation that will stay there and claim themselves sovereign.

The point I'm making is that we have no other sovereign human nations that we have rebuilt (as in humans) because we lack the "spirit" (get it?) to do it and the courage to do it as well (mostly because of writer ignorance). This is probably because Anduin would like us all to be peaceful hippies that live in huts and not reclaim ANY human lands (let's all go live in Stormwind and close the gates while we are at it!).

We need a victory, not just a BG that keeps us in a stalemate (see AV, AB, BfG, TB, WSG) which I remind you are ALL Horde offensives (they are not on defense for these BG's). And the other BG's really aren't as important because they aren't over current Alliance Territory (they are over new lands, resources that have opened up and are being fought over). When are we going to get a BG that is in Mulgore, or some other Horde Territory?
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100 Human Paladin
11050
02/07/2013 04:08 PMPosted by Mestre


The Airbase was a single Alliance ship that got lost, their main fleet was totally fine.

All the Hozen and Jinyu died in Jade forest, but the Horde player recruited Hozen because all the Horde were dead, the Alliance player recruited Jinyu because all the Alliance went back to SW.

Also, in later Alliance quests the Jinyu and Hozen join the Alliance.


Non of that points to any alliance victory that is worth remembering. They are all skirmishes, and overall don't move the tipping point towards the alliance at all. The alliance get pushed back on terrain that ACTUALLY matters. In the end, no one will care about Pandaria, probably because there won't be any "capital" city or human nation that will stay there and claim themselves sovereign.

The point I'm making is that we have no other sovereign human nations that we have rebuilt (as in humans) because we lack the "spirit" (get it?) to do it and the courage to do it as well (mostly because of writer ignorance). This is probably because Anduin would like us all to be peaceful hippies that live in huts and not reclaim ANY human lands (let's all go live in Stormwind and close the gates while we are at it!).

We need a victory, not just a BG that keeps us in a stalemate (see AV, AB, BfG, TB, WSG) which I remind you are ALL Horde offensives (they are not on defense for these BG's). And the other BG's really aren't as important because they aren't over current Alliance Territory (they are over new lands, resources that have opened up and are being fought over). When are we going to get a BG that is in Mulgore, or some other Horde Territory?


Pretty much any victory on Pandaria will mean nothing in terms of new land/claiming because like you said its unlikely we will built any nation/city there.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
20725


Non of that points to any alliance victory that is worth remembering. They are all skirmishes, and overall don't move the tipping point towards the alliance at all. The alliance get pushed back on terrain that ACTUALLY matters. In the end, no one will care about Pandaria, probably because there won't be any "capital" city or human nation that will stay there and claim themselves sovereign.

The point I'm making is that we have no other sovereign human nations that we have rebuilt (as in humans) because we lack the "spirit" (get it?) to do it and the courage to do it as well (mostly because of writer ignorance). This is probably because Anduin would like us all to be peaceful hippies that live in huts and not reclaim ANY human lands (let's all go live in Stormwind and close the gates while we are at it!).

We need a victory, not just a BG that keeps us in a stalemate (see AV, AB, BfG, TB, WSG) which I remind you are ALL Horde offensives (they are not on defense for these BG's). And the other BG's really aren't as important because they aren't over current Alliance Territory (they are over new lands, resources that have opened up and are being fought over). When are we going to get a BG that is in Mulgore, or some other Horde Territory?


I guess you should quit the game now then because now that Horde and Alliance have about the same amount of zones in Kal/EK (Alliance still have 1 more), it's unlikely Blizz will ever give either team more cities/zones again.
Edited by Threeslotbag on 2/7/2013 4:38 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
15115
I'm not going to quit over it, mostly because I love raiding and I love the overall plot. It's the little things that add flavor to the game. But the flavor of it is almost entirely defense, and it needs to end. The horde can have most of western plaguelands and they already have Hillsbrad (which used to be contested). There is not one zone north of the wetlands that is alliance, we have and most likely will be losing those contested territories due to lack of a strategic base of operations that is well defended. The closest base that is well defended is... Ironforge...

And don't even start in Kalimdor; with Theramore and Auberdine destroyed we really have no foot on that continent. Ashenvale is consistently fought over, the alliance conceded Azshara, one of the isles of Feathermoon SANK. So the only real foothold is in the Southern Barrens and a small incursion of elves in Darkshore, Ashenvale, and an even smaller contingent in Feralas. The next thing we have are islands off the coast... which no one ever visits, nor do they have many resources. The rest of the continent is either Horde (on the offense) or neutral (druids).

So almost nothing on Kalimdor, our forces surrounded in the Western Plaguelands, Gilneas under siege, Arathi contested, etc... What does that leave us with? Ironforge and Stormwind, and the ONLY reason we can trade is because of the tram, the mountains are filled with Dragonmaw and Dark Iron dwarves, there is no overland route to our most important ally on our continent (unlike the horde...).
Edited by Mestre on 2/7/2013 5:13 PM PST
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100 Human Warrior
7715
A problem that some posters present as the reason not to have the Alliance take Stromgarde or the Arathi Highlands is due to game balance. There is a simple solution to this problem. Have it begin as a contested zone, similar to Southern Barrens or the Western Plaguelands. This would allow both sides to continue to have a questing experience. By the end of the questing experience it would end with the Horde being defeated and having to withdraw from the region while the Alliance wins and begins to rebuild Stromgarde.

As to the question of how the Alliance is able to support its forces when they are so far away from a secur command post or supply chain the answer boils down to three points:

1. Failed projection of power.
In other words the Alliance attempted to send its forces into regions in force on the assumption that it could gain control of those regions quickly and then use the controled territory as a point from which to link with other territories. In the case of Andorhal for example this failed due to a confrontation with the Forsaken and Sylvanas using the Valk'ryr. Because Stormwind attempted to project its power to far without a more developed infrastructure leading to Andorhal this failed. As a result yes the Alliance has troops there but they are not actually supported.

2. Airpower and magic.
In game both the Alliance and the Horde make use of both air support and magical transportation on a vast scale. Through this both sides can maintain a pressence in places that otherwise would have been starved out or overwhelmed if said forces relied exclusively on more conventional (read realistic) methods.

3. Rule of cool.
Let be honest here, if Blizz decided that the Horde should outnumber the Alliance on Kalimdor with the orcs alone despite the fact that they came to Kalimdor only a decade ago aboard a handful of ships then that is what happens.
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90 Human Priest
15115
The only one that I somewhat disagree with is two. They may have air support but once again so does the horde and I'm sure that being so close to their capital they are much better prepared to send in their air support, and as far as teleporting, I'm also sure there is some type of magic in wow that can block that capability.

Number three is of course correct, it's sad really. The Alliance being slowly whittled down to pretty much the dwarf and human starting areas (since the Draenei are really guests on Azeroth), the horde even have more proper races (since the Orcs seem to be everywhere and the Draenei are not) on Azeroth than the Alliance. /sigh
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100 Night Elf Druid
12480
3. Rule of cool.Let be honest here, if Blizz decided that the Horde should outnumber the Alliance on Kalimdor with the orcs alone despite the fact that they came to Kalimdor only a decade ago aboard a handful of ships then that is what happens.


Yea most horde races are low in numbers.
Orcs- they came to Kalimdor in only a few ships.
trolls- weakest troll trbe and lost a lot of their citizens to the nagas before the orcs came.
tauren- almost got wiped out by the centaur.
forsaken-only fairly populated horde race.
blood elves- lost 91% of their citizens.
goblins- only 1 cartel that lost a lot of men to the catacalysm.

So plot armor is clearly protecting the horde.
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100 Night Elf Druid
12480
I was trying to find a place to put 5 Horde levels if Alliance took all of Arathi as most of these "Stormguarde" threads suggest.Since this thread suggested Alliance get everything East of the wall, I was saying Horde should get everything West of it, in this case Hinterlands.If you are going to ignore game balance though, why don't we just say "Alliance get every zone everywhere because they are the good guys!"


As posted in another Stromgarde/Arathi Highlands forum before, the horde could get a temorary base that gets destroyed in the end, just like how the alliance lost western Andorhal in WPL. Or they could make Hillsbrad a 20-30.
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100 Human Paladin
11050
02/07/2013 08:13 PMPosted by Mythelm
I was trying to find a place to put 5 Horde levels if Alliance took all of Arathi as most of these "Stormguarde" threads suggest.Since this thread suggested Alliance get everything East of the wall, I was saying Horde should get everything West of it, in this case Hinterlands.If you are going to ignore game balance though, why don't we just say "Alliance get every zone everywhere because they are the good guys!"


As posted in another Stromgarde/Arathi Highlands forum before, the horde could get a temorary base that gets destroyed in the end, just like how the alliance lost western Andorhal in WPL. Or they could make Hillsbrad a 20-30.


They could even make Alterac a little bigger and make the city itself Horde.
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90 Night Elf Mage
8710
02/06/2013 08:31 PMPosted by Gollard
in the mountains.


I remember you...
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90 Undead Mage
7375
Has anyone thought about pushing down from northern lordaeron as well as up from wetlands?

For example, what is that currently inaccessible zone north of eastern plaguelands and west of ghostlands? Apparently it could be home to thousands of high elves, who would surely be quick to join forces with the alliance and could then push through western plaguelands/hillsbrad foothills whilst the humans/dwarves push north through arathi highlands and west into hillsbrad, whilst sending reinforcements north to aid the elves in western plaguelands.

From here, the gilneans could push out into silverpine, and the combined forces - along with the kirin'tor outpost in silverpine - could storm undercity and reclaim the city.

Very unlikely, but ultimately, a 2 front attack would prove difficult for the forsaken - especially if garrosh is more than happy to see them out of the way. I doubt the blood elves would be able to send many reinforcements, so it will one race against most of the alliance forces.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
Yea most horde races are low in numbers.
Orcs- they came to Kalimdor in only a few ships.
trolls- weakest troll trbe and lost a lot of their citizens to the nagas before the orcs came.
tauren- almost got wiped out by the centaur.
forsaken-only fairly populated horde race.
blood elves- lost 91% of their citizens.
goblins- only 1 cartel that lost a lot of men to the catacalysm.

So plot armor is clearly protecting the horde.


Not entirely.

Stormwind, Ironforge and Gnomeregan should all be fairly low pop after the 1st/2nd Wars. Gilneas has been through a near-famine, a civil war, a battle with the Scourge, an overruning in worgen, an exodus and a war with the Forsaken. The Dreanei were almost made extinct by the Horde, and the Night Elves probably suffered the greatest casualties via the demons, and then they had half their bloody society go neutral.

Yet somehow, Stormwind especially, these races have bounced back with nearly no trouble and now dominate the world.
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90 Human Priest
15115
I would love to see many refugees from Stromgarde and Gilneas take up and conquer Stromgarde back, there would be a 2 districts for each one. The Stromgarde would be defending Arathi and helping defend the wall, while the people of Gilneas would use it as a ground for assalting their city and sending in troops (instead of wherever they are now...)
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