Heirlooms

90 Blood Elf Priest
14095


It is about comprehension. You're reading "account bound" and interpreting it incorrectly as "account-wide".

It's not Blizzard's fault that you - or anyone else - don't understand the difference between the two.

The wordage is correct. Your understanding of its meaning is what's incorrect.


Account wide means that my entire account has it (which is one of my suggestions), account bound implies that it is only BOUND to the characters on my account and can be transferred to other characters on my ACCOUNT (not just server, or faction, etc). Bound implies that no one outside of my account can have that specific piece of gear, but when you put account in any form in front of that, it implies that any character on my account may use it. There was never any indication when these were originally made that server transfers would be the only way to send them from one realm to another. The difference between 'wide' and 'bound' is merely an implication that I cannot have 10 characters all wearing the same piece of armor.


"Account-bound" implies nothing. It specifically states that the items cannot leave your account. That doesn't mean it gets to ignore the rules applied to almost every other item in the game. There isn't a single item in the game (save conjured items) that can be traded between realms. This is a standard item trait. "Account-bound" does not imply in any way, shape, or form that this rule does not apply to heirlooms. Period. They're still items. Items have rules.

And before you say anything, mounts and pets are not the same. Those are spells, not items.
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12 Blood Elf Priest
0
02/07/2013 10:52 AMPosted by Calbador
It's not Blizzard's fault that you - or anyone else - don't understand the difference between the two.


Considering that the original "Binds to Account" items actually were account wide, appearing instantly in your mailbox when you created a new character, yes, it is completely Blizzard's fault that they changed the definition of the wording they introduced. Practically every BOA item introduced before heirlooms behaved as if the phrase meant "all of my toons get this in the mail." Heirlooms flipped the script. If Blizzard hadn't used the exact same tag to describe items that behave in a dozen different ways, I'd wager there would be far fewer "confused" people.

That being said, let's not pretend this is a technical issue. Blizzard knows half a dozen ways to fix this. They admit that they can fix this. The excuse that "we don't want to fix it that way" lies on nobody's shoulders but Blizzard's. Be a Blizzard apologist all you want, but your religious fervor for the company doesn't absolve it of blame. This is a problem created by Blizzard and able to be solved by Blizzard. Don't blame it on players, however much you think that Blizzard definition #6 for BOA is more true than Blizzard definition #1 for BOA. Whichever line of the Blizzard dictionary you're looking at, it's Blizzard's, and only Blizzard's, fault that this isn't already fixed with any one of the literally dozens of solutions at their fingertips.
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MVP
100 Night Elf Priest
11835
It's not Blizzard's fault that you - or anyone else - don't understand the difference between the two.


Considering that the original "Binds to Account" items actually were account wide, appearing instantly in your mailbox when you created a new character, yes, it is completely Blizzard's fault that they changed the definition of the wording they introduced. Practically every BOA item introduced before heirlooms behaved as if the phrase meant "all of my toons get this in the mail." Heirlooms flipped the script. If Blizzard hadn't used the exact same tag to describe items that behave in a dozen different ways, I'd wager there would be far fewer "confused" people.

That being said, let's not pretend this is a technical issue. Blizzard knows half a dozen ways to fix this. They admit that they can fix this. The excuse that "we don't want to fix it that way" lies on nobody's shoulders but Blizzard's. Be a Blizzard apologist all you want, but your religious fervor for the company doesn't absolve it of blame. This is a problem created by Blizzard and able to be solved by Blizzard. Don't blame it on players, however much you think that Blizzard definition #6 for BOA is more true than Blizzard definition #1 for BOA. Whichever line of the Blizzard dictionary you're looking at, it's Blizzard's, and only Blizzard's, fault that this isn't already fixed with any one of the literally dozens of solutions at their fingertips.


I read your post and I'm not sure where to begin.

The only thing that was sort of half-accurate was people receiving certain things in the mailbox which read as boa (but were not actually gear nor could you send to any other realm). Everything else was so incorrect I don't even know where to start except to say that it reads like conspiracy theory.
Edited by Snowfox on 2/7/2013 12:51 PM PST
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12 Blood Elf Priest
0
02/07/2013 12:32 PMPosted by Vanarela
And before you say anything, mounts and pets are not the same. Those are spells, not items.


They are spells now. I seem to recall them being items at one point in time. I also seem to recall Blizzard converting them to spells because the fact that they were items was creating an undue burden on bagspace and making collectors angry that they couldn't get them all.

Hmm... something that used to be an item was converted to a spell to solve a problem players were having with being unable to access all of the items they wanted. I wonder if that same solution could be applied here? Nah, that would just be silly. I mean, they could have done that years ago.
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90 Gnome Priest
17440
Why are people still complaining about this when Blizzard has explained the technical issues and has told us they are working on a way to resolve for the future.

I have no problems with the "account bound designation". I freely mail heirlooms back and forth between my various of both factions on my server. If I mistype a cross faction name, I get an error message stating the item cannot be mailed to that character. Why? Because items are Bind to Account and that character is not on my account.

Can you mail anything at all to another character on server? No.

Once upon a time, we couldn't mail anything cross-faction same server either. Now we can with the heirlooms so Blizzard has made progress. Give them the chance to keep working on making improvements.

At least Blizzard has said cross realm transfer of heirlooms is something they are working to implement in the future, unlike more serious issues with the game they won't do anything about like low pop servers. Quit your complaining since at least they'll be giving you your bone to chew as soon as they can.

In the meantime, if you're such an incredibly bad player that you can't manage to level a toon without heirlooms I suggest you invest the time you're uselessly arguing over the definition of Bind to Account in learning to become a better player. Leveling is not hard, even without use of heirlooms, when you know how to play the game.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
9770
02/07/2013 12:42 PMPosted by Tempestuous
It's not Blizzard's fault that you - or anyone else - don't understand the difference between the two.


Considering that the original "Binds to Account" items actually were account wide, appearing instantly in your mailbox when you created a new character, yes, it is completely Blizzard's fault that they changed the definition of the wording they introduced. Practically every BOA item introduced before heirlooms behaved as if the phrase meant "all of my toons get this in the mail." Heirlooms flipped the script. If Blizzard hadn't used the exact same tag to describe items that behave in a dozen different ways, I'd wager there would be far fewer "confused" people.

That being said, let's not pretend this is a technical issue. Blizzard knows half a dozen ways to fix this. They admit that they can fix this. The excuse that "we don't want to fix it that way" lies on nobody's shoulders but Blizzard's. Be a Blizzard apologist all you want, but your religious fervor for the company doesn't absolve it of blame. This is a problem created by Blizzard and able to be solved by Blizzard. Don't blame it on players, however much you think that Blizzard definition #6 for BOA is more true than Blizzard definition #1 for BOA. Whichever line of the Blizzard dictionary you're looking at, it's Blizzard's, and only Blizzard's, fault that this isn't already fixed with any one of the literally dozens of solutions at their fingertips.


Honestly, the Herilooms comply with your example. They can be used by any character on your account just like the pets. You still have to get it to the server to use it though. But it is true that every single character on your account can use it. The item is still subject to the restrictions of the game though.

Again, no one is arguing that it is not a good idea to ADD this EXTRA feature to the heirlooms. But, the name they are using is not misleading at all.
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90 Gnome Priest
17440
02/07/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Tempestuous
And before you say anything, mounts and pets are not the same. Those are spells, not items.


They are spells now. I seem to recall them being items at one point in time. I also seem to recall Blizzard converting them to spells because the fact that they were items was creating an undue burden on bagspace and making collectors angry that they couldn't get them all.

Hmm... something that used to be an item was converted to a spell to solve a problem players were having with being unable to access all of the items they wanted. I wonder if that same solution could be applied here? Nah, that would just be silly. I mean, they could have done that years ago.

Mounts and pets were never equippable even when they were items. They were items that created a spell effect of character appearing mounted and obtaining increased run speed until cancelled. Equippable items are not spell effects. They work differently.

But did you ever stop to think that maybe the development of the account wide mount and pet interface might be a step toward creating an account wide heirloom interface but there are still more technical hurdles they have to overcome because now we're talking about making an actual item through use of the interface and not just creating a spell efect? Things don't happen overnight.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
9770
02/07/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Tempestuous
And before you say anything, mounts and pets are not the same. Those are spells, not items.


They are spells now. I seem to recall them being items at one point in time. I also seem to recall Blizzard converting them to spells because the fact that they were items was creating an undue burden on bagspace and making collectors angry that they couldn't get them all.

Hmm... something that used to be an item was converted to a spell to solve a problem players were having with being unable to access all of the items they wanted. I wonder if that same solution could be applied here? Nah, that would just be silly. I mean, they could have done that years ago.


I don't disagree that it would be cool if they can do it. Though, I am also not silly enough to believe I know anything about programming so as to allow me to say any fix is a simple one. I would only say that if the fix were so simple, it would be done. But, I would not know that either as I am not a programmer. I am guessing that you are not one either.
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12 Blood Elf Priest
0
02/07/2013 12:45 PMPosted by Snowfox
The only thing that was sort of half-accurate was people receiving certain things in the mailbox which read as boa (but were not actually gear nor could you send to any other realm). Everything else was so incorrect I don't even know where to start except to say that it reads like conspiracy theory.


There was no need to send any of those items anywhere because every toon on your account already had it mailed to them, regardless of server.
When I say they were account wide, I mean that once you earned that item, every character on that account received one, regardless of when or where it was created. This is one of the many variants in how BOA items behaved that I was referring to.

As to being wrong and a conspiracy theorist...

So we're going to pretend that there aren't already vendors in the game that recognize achievements and allow you access to items across realms, and that simply adding an achievement to heirlooms would allow the same technology to distribute heirlooms?

We're going to pretend that Blizzard GM's can't transfer these items by creating them on one server and deleting them on another? And that this process cannot be automated by a script to save the GM from doing it himself?

We're going to pretend that Blizzard can't convert these items to spells and put them in your spellbook under a new heirloom tab?

We're going to pretend that these items couldn't be mailed to you upon character creation?

Look, you can disagree with me if you want, but let's not pretend that solutions don't exist. They do. Blizzard knows they do. They always say "we don't see heirlooms that way" or "that's not how we want them to work." Well, fine, Blizzard doesn't want to fix it. The least they can do is admit it and stop citing technical limitations that don't exist outside of their own obstinance. Since you seem to be so fond of semantics, the issue is this: there are technical limitations attached to the solution *Blizzard* insists upon, but there are numerous solutions which *do not* have technical limitations that Blizzard refuses to employ.

Imagine there was this guy walking down the road with you and the road suddenly splits off into a dozen different branches. So you say to the guy, "which road do you want to take?" And the guy says, "we have stop here." So you look, and you see all sorts of different paths leading off of the main road and you're confused. So you ask the guy "what do you mean we have to stop?" The guy says "there's a roadblock on this road." Sure enough, one of the twelve roads has a roadblock. So you say to the guy "we don't have to take that road, there are 11 other perfectly viable roads right there, they all lead to the same place. Let's take one of those roads." And the guys says "I'll only take this road" and sits down by the roadblock, loudly bemoaning how he can't get past the roadblock and getting angry at you for suggesting an alternate route.

Blizzard has been told dozens of solutions that could solve the heirloom problem using technology that is already coded into the game. No need for huge overhauls to the mail system or some breakthrough in coding a new technology. Time and again Blizzard has said that they don't like these solutions and won't accept any solution other than the mailboxes that they know will not work. So please pardon us if we get just a little bit perturbed at Blizzard's stubbornness on the matter. Those of us who want our heirlooms don't particularly care if the solution is Blizzard's "perfect solution" or not. We'll gladly settle for a makeshift solution like a vendor or website script while Blizzard plugs away at their mailbox issues.
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100 Dwarf Hunter
16615
02/07/2013 01:04 PMPosted by Joynal
Why are people still complaining about this when Blizzard has explained the technical issues and has told us they are working on a way to resolve for the future.


Because players like me whom where in LK when these new heirlooms were introduced were promised and told back then that we would be able to use any of these heirlooms on any realm without the cost of transferring said toons with heirlooms in bags to another realm we wanted to level on ...now its been almost 4 years since this was put in place and we still can't do this without paying out the nose for transfer of a toon with the heirlooms in the bags/bank of said toon......that is where the frustration is coming from 4 years worth of it....

There is one easy way to do this but blizzard won't take the idea from the player base...many of us have told blizzard very simple way to do this ...make a special heirloom bank....in this bank will contain every piece of said heirloom gear that the account has ...they known which pieces you have on the account the information is there...this said special heirloom bank is in every major city...said new alt goes to this bank and takes out which piece fits its class they have made for the toon....once the toon is leveling up as they get gear that replaces the heirloom gear which for some is level 80 or 85 the heirloom pulled from the bank is just thrown away...in that way there are no duplicates made at all...but again its players idea not blizzards or Ghostcrawler idea ..they don't want to use it.

The heirloom gear bank just has copies of the gear you never really pull out the full piece you get a copy that is thrown away later on as you get over level 80...plain and simple....so if a player wants to make another cloth type toon the heirloom is still there for that next toon to use...
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Considering that the original "Binds to Account" items actually were account wide, appearing instantly in your mailbox when you created a new character, yes, it is completely Blizzard's fault that they changed the definition of the wording they introduced. Practically every BOA item introduced before heirlooms behaved as if the phrase meant "all of my toons get this in the mail." Heirlooms flipped the script. If Blizzard hadn't used the exact same tag to describe items that behave in a dozen different ways, I'd wager there would be far fewer "confused" people.

That being said, let's not pretend this is a technical issue. Blizzard knows half a dozen ways to fix this. They admit that they can fix this. The excuse that "we don't want to fix it that way" lies on nobody's shoulders but Blizzard's. Be a Blizzard apologist all you want, but your religious fervor for the company doesn't absolve it of blame. This is a problem created by Blizzard and able to be solved by Blizzard. Don't blame it on players, however much you think that Blizzard definition #6 for BOA is more true than Blizzard definition #1 for BOA. Whichever line of the Blizzard dictionary you're looking at, it's Blizzard's, and only Blizzard's, fault that this isn't already fixed with any one of the literally dozens of solutions at their fingertips.


Honestly, the Herilooms comply with your example. They can be used by any character on your account just like the pets. You still have to get it to the server to use it though. But it is true that every single character on your account can use it. The item is still subject to the restrictions of the game though.

Again, no one is arguing that it is not a good idea to ADD this EXTRA feature to the heirlooms. But, the name they are using is not misleading at all.


This isn't much different from a non bound BOE item though. The only difference is that I couldn't send them to an Alliance alt directly (I would have to use the neutral AH). I could server transfer from my server to any server with as many BOE's (or whites and greys for that matter, which have ZERO binding restrictions placed on them) as I could carry and distribute them out to any character I have of the same faction. This is completely identical to what the heirlooms did originally.

If Blizzard didn't agree that this was a problem, they wouldn't bother dealing with it. The accusations are that they have no motivation to change anything quickly and efficiently because they are making $25 on transferring characters just to move gear from one server to another. Blizzard has come out and said that this is mere coincidence, but myself and many other people are firm believers that actions speak much louder than words.
Edited by Stealthyfail on 2/8/2013 6:04 AM PST
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Imagine there was this guy walking down the road with you and the road suddenly splits off into a dozen different branches. So you say to the guy, "which road do you want to take?" And the guy says, "we have stop here." So you look, and you see all sorts of different paths leading off of the main road and you're confused. So you ask the guy "what do you mean we have to stop?" The guy says "there's a roadblock on this road." Sure enough, one of the twelve roads has a roadblock. So you say to the guy "we don't have to take that road, there are 11 other perfectly viable roads right there, they all lead to the same place. Let's take one of those roads." And the guys says "I'll only take this road" and sits down by the roadblock, loudly bemoaning how he can't get past the roadblock and getting angry at you for suggesting an alternate route.

Blizzard has been told dozens of solutions that could solve the heirloom problem using technology that is already coded into the game. No need for huge overhauls to the mail system or some breakthrough in coding a new technology. Time and again Blizzard has said that they don't like these solutions and won't accept any solution other than the mailboxes that they know will not work. So please pardon us if we get just a little bit perturbed at Blizzard's stubbornness on the matter. Those of us who want our heirlooms don't particularly care if the solution is Blizzard's "perfect solution" or not. We'll gladly settle for a makeshift solution like a vendor or website script while Blizzard plugs away at their mailbox issues.


Not a bad analogy of the situation. Considering that I've waited four years, and worked hard to get all the JP needed (before JP was a joke to farm and while gearing up my mains) to get the chest pieces and weapons, then all the gold I spent to get the head pieces and cloaks, and now the work I'll have to put in to get all of the pants, and I some how STILL have no adequate solutions other than shelling out cash for what should be a backdoor way of transferring items across servers instead of a decent front door solution (whether there is a cost associated or not doesn't matter to me as long as it's a reasonable price for a reasonable number of BOA's at a time). Again, I know that the blues have told us that the money is coincidental in getting these items moved, and I'm sure that they must realize that the cost is prohibitive if you only want to move items (not to mention the three day waiting period to get a character BACK to the original server, if that matters to you). But when the GM's are capable of providing this service in game, and there is a continued outcry for SOMETHING to be implemented, then they have to realize that the players are going to think that they're milking the cow.

I would love to be proven wrong,but Blizzard hasn't made enough progress to put this into a PTR yet, so I'm forced to believe that they are content with the system as is and have no real motivation to implement a more cost effective alternative for players not wanting to have to go through to the process or burn the cash to move characters to transfer items that should have been movable years ago. However, the fact that they've come out and said that they are even working on a solution tells me that Blizzard agrees that BOA's should be moved more easily than they currently are, but since there is still money to be made, they'll take their sweet time with it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8100
Blizzard should make it a battle.net portal function to send your boa's from one realm to another. Provide a list of the BoA items you've purchased, and put pulldown menu next to the item with a "send to" list of your characters. The next time you log in the item should be in your mailbox. Thats how I would do it, anyway. It still retains only one copy of the BoA item, but allows transfer between realms as long as the character has already been created.
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02/08/2013 08:09 AMPosted by Smøkey
Blizzard should make it a battle.net portal function to send your boa's from one realm to another. Provide a list of the BoA items you've purchased, and put pulldown menu next to the item with a "send to" list of your characters. The next time you log in the item should be in your mailbox. Thats how I would do it, anyway. It still retains only one copy of the BoA item, but allows transfer between realms as long as the character has already been created.


My own, personal favorite, suggestion was to tweak the Item Restoration service, but instead of showing only qualified discarded or vendored items, BOA's could be selected on a character and then moved via deletion on the origin server and creation (in the mailbox as Blizz seems hung up on that) on the new server. I've had a GM do this for me in the past, and the interface is already in place, ready to be slightly modified and I'm more than happy sacrificing enchantments to move the items over, at least until Blizz gets their perfect solution up and running that leaves the items perfectly intact.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10265
02/07/2013 10:30 AMPosted by Snowfox
Let's not rehash the naming of BoA's. The name is accurate. What people want is cross-realm BoA's... and that's fine, but the name BoA is accurate. So let's just skip over that.


Bind on account mean bind on account. The way they are right now is more BOS for bind on server. Lets call the things like they really are. So no, the name is not accurate at all.
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This thread... arguing over the semantics of the three words on the item?

Making a big assumption and then spending a bunch of money on it is your fault, not Blizzard's. Deal with it.
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This thread... arguing over the semantics of the three words on the item?

Making a big assumption and then spending a bunch of money on it is your fault, not Blizzard's. Deal with it.


I admitted it that. But that doesn't change the fact that a broken feature has been a known issue for four years and we're apparently no closer to a fix than we were at the end of WotLK.
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66 Tauren Warrior
WAR
2685
02/07/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Snowfox
The term BOA is accurate, no matter what someone's agenda is.


It is not accurate if you can not transfer your items anywhere within that account. An autistic grade schooler could've easily put this in a much more eloquent manner than myself.

Arguing that BOA is an accurate acronym, while not being able to trade them on the actual account is the very definition...of @#$@%@$@%@^@#$@$!@#!#!#%^^^^#@#$@#$%@#$@@#$@#$@#and @#$%@#$@! because it doesn't take a #@$@%@#@$@# @@@!!!!!!!!! to understand logic, #@$!!!@$%...@
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