I'd just like to point out that on my rogue

90 Pandaren Monk
10840
That my 1-= (main action) bar for my subtlety spec hasn't changed since Deadly Throw was added in BC, and the rest has been the same since classic. I'm pretty sure that there's not another class where that's even possible unless you put things like fortitude and mark on your main action bar.
Every class but rogues have gotten new abilities that are basically required to take place of older keybinds of important abilities (Example: Colossus Smash replaced Execute as my 4 button when it was introduced). There's not a single rogue ability like that. All of rogues new abilities are situational or a CD.

THAT is why rogues are complaining.

Feel free to disagree, discuss, or debate. I know it's hard to just post "yup" to a thread.
Edited by Sajepanda on 2/7/2013 9:33 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
I'm not so sure. I honestly think it has a lot to do with three things:

1) rogues are not flashy;

2) they are not a classic archetype with straight-forward gameplay;

3) stealth is not really a thing beyond leveling and high-level pvp.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10840
I'm not so sure. I honestly think it has a lot to do with three things:

1) rogues are not flashy;

2) they are not a classic archetype with straight-forward gameplay;

3) stealth is not really a thing beyond leveling and high-level pvp.

Those don't help, but it's absolutely not the biggest problem with rogues.
Those would make sense if rogues weren't one of the most populous classes in Classic WoW, even after they were reduced from God mode, and have been steadily decreasing since then.

All of the stats and logic point to the fact that they are sooooo stale.

Think about it. I don't have the numbers on hand, but I'm certain last I checked on the numbers of classes that people re-roll to their mains, the lowest class re-rolled above rogues (Hunter) was some 500% above the number that made the switch to rogue.
In short, the numbers say that generally people who play rogues have been playing rogues for a long time.

It makes perfect sense; players that have stuck with rogues (Myself from Classic til MoP hit, 250+ days played, less than 3 hours since 5.0) can stick with their bland, boring abilities because they're used to it-they're really effective with their toolkit of 8 years. People who re-roll to the class? They see a bunch of really unintuitive abilities with a bunch of talents that should be baseline, combo points that are inferior to every other class with a similar mechanic, and 0 flash.

Did dispatch's proc get a UI alert this expansion? They were the only class without any in Cata.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
I don't think any rogue abilities are un-intuitive, and I'm not sure niche is really the problem either, considering that hunters are incredibly popular.

One of the bigger culprits has been brought up a lot, and that's that rogue pve is the same regardless of spec (basically). Keep up snd and rupture, spam combo generator, eviscerate if possible. Then add a cooldown for each spec that makes you do that same stuff only harder / faster (/ better / stronger).

And yes, dispatch has a ui thingy.

They could have spiced up rogues at a lot of intervals, but instead they just made monks. I'm not really sure what they can do now since they've sort of painted themselves into a corner.
Edited by Swampdonkeys on 2/8/2013 12:22 AM PST
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41 Draenei Hunter
10360
Rogues are LONG overdue for an overhaul.

Even GC admitted this on Twitter, but apparently they want to wait until 6.0 so that Expansion has another selling point.
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90 Human Warrior
10675
errrrr, by saying your "main action bar" hasn't changed, that puts you in the same group as almost every other class. I still have ms as 1, overpower as 2, and so and so forth.

I don't see how that makes you ANY different than ALMOST anyone.

note: I also have MS bound to "Q" somewhat for utility, but mostly for amusement.
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90 Troll Hunter
9620
That my 1-= (main action) bar for my subtlety spec hasn't changed since Deadly Throw was added in BC, and the rest has been the same since classic. I'm pretty sure that there's not another class where that's even possible unless you put things like fortitude and mark on your main action bar.
Every class but rogues have gotten new abilities that are basically required to take place of older keybinds of important abilities (Example: Colossus Smash replaced Execute as my 4 button when it was introduced). There's not a single rogue ability like that. All of rogues new abilities are situational or a CD.

THAT is why rogues are complaining.

Feel free to disagree, discuss, or debate. I know it's hard to just post "yup" to a thread.


Careful what you ask for. I understand you're bored due to lack of change, but you could end up as the experiment known as hunter focus for an entire expansion. It took them all of Cataclysm to figure out how to balance focus. They used set bonuses as the testing mechanism.

I'm not saying they don't need some change, but if they change the class, be prepared for some odd results.
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100 Troll Rogue
16300
02/07/2013 11:44 PMPosted by Sajepanda
I'm not so sure. I honestly think it has a lot to do with three things:

Those don't help, but it's absolutely not the biggest problem with rogues.
Those would make sense if rogues weren't one of the most populous classes in Classic WoW, even after they were reduced from God mode, and have been steadily decreasing since then.


No they weren't. They were middle of the pack, behind warriors, hunters, mages and pallies/shaman.
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100 Tauren Warrior
11585
note: I also have MS bound to "Q" somewhat for utility, but mostly for amusement.

Havent heard that in so long. QFT
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100 Night Elf Druid
16275
errrrr, by saying your "main action bar" hasn't changed, that puts you in the same group as almost every other class. I still have ms as 1, overpower as 2, and so and so forth.

I don't see how that makes you ANY different than ALMOST anyone.

note: I also have MS bound to "Q" somewhat for utility, but mostly for amusement.


As the OP mentioned, the introduction of Colossus Smash was a big deal. And IIRC, Rend was a waste of a main keybind in Vanilla/BC, made important for LK/Cata, then finally removed in MoP. Rage was redesigned (for better or worse) almost every expansion, too.

So while your 2-3 iconic skills may have remained the same, there have been SOME changes ranging from subtle to game-changing. You can't really say that with rogues; the trend for them each expansion has been the only change is a new PVP button.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
When Rogues get their overhaul, they should get a 4th spec: Ranger.

Yeah, it uses rogue resources and mechanics, but like... With a Bow.

Meh, there needs to be more than one bow class in the game.


I've been wanting a non-pet hunter since forever :3
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90 Pandaren Monk
10840
When Rogues get their overhaul, they should get a 4th spec: Ranger.

Yeah, it uses rogue resources and mechanics, but like... With a Bow.

Meh, there needs to be more than one bow class in the game.


I'd cry with happiness if that went through and worked. My very first character above level 5 and to 60 was a hunter, back in 2004 when WoW launched.

The immense reliance on the pet, along with all of the micro managing that was introduced in WotLK killed the class for me. I can't stand playing a lock, never leveled a DK beyond 70, and will only play a frost mage as a pet spec. Sure I got him to cap each xpac but he's at 86 now and I don't see that changing soon.
Edited by Sajepanda on 2/11/2013 5:35 PM PST
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100 Draenei Shaman
4895
02/07/2013 09:24 PMPosted by Sajepanda
That my 1-= (main action) bar for my subtlety spec hasn't changed since Deadly Throw was added in BC, and the rest has been the same since classic. I'm pretty sure that there's not another class where that's even possible unless you put things like fortitude and mark on your main action bar.

What about recuperate in Cataclysm? That was a rotational ability for sub.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10840
02/11/2013 05:41 PMPosted by Slant
That my 1-= (main action) bar for my subtlety spec hasn't changed since Deadly Throw was added in BC, and the rest has been the same since classic. I'm pretty sure that there's not another class where that's even possible unless you put things like fortitude and mark on your main action bar.

What about recuperate in Cataclysm? That was a rotational ability for sub.


You're right, Recuperate is the one move that rogues have received that actually changed the dynamic of the class. I actually feel silly forgetting about it, but at the same time it replaced my battlemasters trinket from BC and WotLK.

That, and I still feel recup is slightly less important and rotational than a frost bomb, colossus smash, lava lash, etc. even in cata when it was core for sub.
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100 Troll Hunter
17340
Rogues are LONG overdue for an overhaul.

Even GC admitted this on Twitter, but apparently they want to wait until 6.0 so that Expansion has another selling point.

A complete class overhaul in the middle of an expansion is not a good thing. Necessary changes are one thing (and yes, they have different views on what is necessary), but a complete revamp is best done during an expansion.
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