Why dont Alliance just allow Undead?

90 Human Death Knight
7475
Now before you begin this is not Forsaken but Undead, yes we know Death Knights are allowed in but that seems to be a weird case never brought up in lore except for Thassarian who is always sent on suicide missions it seems.

A major factor in bolstering the Forsaken's numbers is that risen humans are told they aren't welcome in the Alliance anymore by the Forsaken and Val'kyr. But what if that wasn't the case, and the Alliance picked up on this and told EVERYONE before sending them to battle and making sure its engraved into their thoughts and even written down on paper

"If you are killed in battle and risen into undeath you are STILL WELCOME HOME IN THE ALLIANCE SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT PLEDGE YOURSELF TO THE FORSAKEN, even if you go insane from the raising it is temporary and you will be granted clemency for your actions as acting under the influence of the enemy's magics and what you do in your first moments as undead will not count against you"

That way when the Forsaken pull the "Join or Die because no one else will take you" they can say "Nope, I got a card that says they will still accept me". Now obviously you'd have to be a registered soldier that could be able to prove who you are and not some thoroughly rotten Forsaken attempting to pose as a fresh Alliance soldier, maybe Priests and Paladins could determine truth or not.

And if risen Alliance continue to join the Forsaken after all this Varian could go to Tirion and say "Hey buddy, the Undead are forcing our troops into service in undeath even after we established that as undead they are still welcome home, you gota help us because they are binding undead"

This way Sylvanas is robbed of her greatest weapon and will have to resort to mass plaguing the lands to stave off invasion, which would only piss off the Cenarion Circle and Earthen Ring like nothing else.
Edited by Anargyros on 2/7/2013 6:24 PM PST
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100 Draenei Paladin
13790
It's Blizz screwing up, because demonstrably, the Alliance does welcome the undead.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
7885
02/07/2013 06:27 PMPosted by Arkturas
the Alliance does welcome the undead.


hahahah hahahehehe WOOT good joke ;)
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100 Draenei Monk
20790
02/07/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Liopy
the Alliance does welcome the undead.


hahahah hahahehehe WOOT good joke ;)


Uh, what do you think death knights are?
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
7885
02/07/2013 07:00 PMPosted by Lena
Uh, what do you think death knights are?

Considering the Forsaken are in fact undead if you say they aren't i don't get what your saying at all, So as soon as Varian tells the frosaken they are welcome into the alliance ill believe you
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100 Night Elf Hunter
6150
02/07/2013 07:03 PMPosted by Liopy
Uh, what do you think death knights are?

Considering the Forsaken are in fact undead if you say they aren't i don't get what your saying at all, So as soon as Varian tells the frosaken they are welcome into the alliance ill believe you


As soon as the forsaken agree to atone for their crimes against humanist and the Alliance, sure.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
7885
02/07/2013 07:07 PMPosted by Kynrind
As soon as the forsaken agree to atone for their crimes against humanist and the Alliance, sure.


Thats not what I am saying Arktras said the Undead are welcome in the alliance so I would like to see a big welcome party for the forsaken
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The Alliance (humans in general, honestly) have no qualms about working with sentient undead.

Sylvanas burned that bridge a long time ago, however.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13790
02/07/2013 07:08 PMPosted by Liopy
Thats not what I am saying Arktras said the Undead are welcome in the alliance so I would like to see a big welcome party for the forsaken


Death Knights are Undead. They are welcome in the Alliance.

Apparently, those who want to work with, and not kill and enslave, the Alliance, are welcome.

Shocking, I know.
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100 Draenei Monk
20790
02/07/2013 07:03 PMPosted by Liopy
Uh, what do you think death knights are?

Considering the Forsaken are in fact undead if you say they aren't i don't get what your saying at all, So as soon as Varian tells the frosaken they are welcome into the alliance ill believe you


Forsaken are a group of undead, they aren't welcome.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
7885
Its a two way war guys Average human mentality towards the Forsaken "EEEWWWW that things dead and different then me lets not give it a chance to talk to me at all or explain its self lets kill it, NO MERCY"

Yes I will admit Sylvanas is a B**** towards all humanity (i love her though) i understand your side of the argument, you just gotta look at it from both sides
Edited by Liopy on 2/7/2013 7:17 PM PST
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02/07/2013 07:15 PMPosted by Liopy
Its a two way war guys Average human mentality towards the Forsaken "EEEWWWW that things dead and different then me lets not give it a chance to talk to me at all or explain its self lets kill it, NO MERCY"


Prove it.
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100 Draenei Monk
20790
Its a two way war guys Average human mentality towards the Forsaken "EEEWWWW that things dead and different then me lets not give it a chance to talk to me at all or explain its self lets kill it, NO MERCY"

Yes I will admit Sylvanas is a B**** towards all humanity (i love her though) i understand your side of the argument, you just gotta look at it from both sides


Right, because the humans didn't work with the forsaken at all and then got back stabbed for their trouble.
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85 Undead Warrior
9545
I honestly doubt it is as simple as "Hey join us, we be cool."

Putting aside the "Undead are puppy-kicking moustache twirlin' villains!" theory for a bit (because Death Knights are ALSO psychopathic monsters addicted to causing pain), lets consider that the newly risen undead feel like they wouldn't fit in, that they'd face discrimination, etc. This is probably reinforced by propaganda that the Forsaken instill in newly risen undead, and to begin with is probably somewhat valid (don't tell me that a rotting corpse wouldn't face troubles getting a job compared to a perfectly healthy young man).

Another thing to consider is that the Alliance isn't as accepting of the undead as it seems on the outside. Mind you, what even allowed the death knights to talk to Varian without ending up being a coagulated mess on his shiny floor is a recommendation letter from the most famous paladin alive at that time, Tirion Fordring. That is not a matter to overlook, they basically had the word of the Pope.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
7885
02/07/2013 07:17 PMPosted by Tesseae
Prove it.


Some humans would certainly take a "kill on sight" policy with the undead. Alexandros Mograine intended to attack the Forsaken, without knowledge of what they'd done, because he felt an organized group of free-willed undead would become a threat if left unchecked.(Imma kill these guys cuz their dead thats the only reason why)

And will you please prove to me that every forsaken is 100% evil
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85 Undead Warrior
9545
02/07/2013 07:17 PMPosted by Tesseae
Its a two way war guys Average human mentality towards the Forsaken "EEEWWWW that things dead and different then me lets not give it a chance to talk to me at all or explain its self lets kill it, NO MERCY"


Prove it.
In vanilla, there was actually an NPC in Undercity that tells you about how he was risen, tried to join back with his family, and was driven off by an angry mob. It's not without basis, and its honestly perfectly natural given that we're talking about a walking corpse in a rather religious society (that worships a force that is the anti-thesis of undeath).
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02/07/2013 07:21 PMPosted by Rothiron
I honestly doubt it is as simple as "Hey join us, we be cool."


Of course not.

But that's not what's being discussed. The question was why general undead aren't a part of the Alliance.

Sylvanas is that reason.
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100 Human Monk
6510
02/07/2013 06:23 PMPosted by Anargyros
Now before you begin this is not Forsaken but Undead, yes we know Death Knights are allowed in but that seems to be a weird case never brought up in lore except for Thassarian who is always sent on suicide missions it seems.


Misunderstand of the story. Thassarian was sent on a suicide mission by Scourge spies pulling the strings of the Alliance military.

After that quest line he was an important part of the Alliance military forces.



A major factor in bolstering the Forsaken's numbers is that risen humans are told they aren't welcome in the Alliance anymore by the Forsaken and Val'kyr. But what if that wasn't the case, and the Alliance picked up on this and told EVERYONE before sending them to battle and making sure its engraved into their thoughts and even written down on paper

"If you are killed in battle and risen into undeath you are STILL WELCOME HOME IN THE ALLIANCE SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT PLEDGE YOURSELF TO THE FORSAKEN, even if you go insane from the raising it is temporary and you will be granted clemency for your actions as acting under the influence of the enemy's magics and what you do in your first moments as undead will not count against you"

That way when the Forsaken pull the "Join or Die because no one else will take you" they can say "Nope, I got a card that says they will still accept me". Now obviously you'd have to be a registered soldier that could be able to prove who you are and not some thoroughly rotten Forsaken attempting to pose as a fresh Alliance soldier, maybe Priests and Paladins could determine truth or not.

And if risen Alliance continue to join the Forsaken after all this Varian could go to Tirion and say "Hey buddy, the Undead are forcing our troops into service in undeath even after we established that as undead they are still welcome home, you gota help us because they are binding undead"


The problem with this is that the Forsaken aren't welcome on some very fundamental levels. Humans do not view Forsaken as being the same people they were in life. Often, they're viewed as being twisted, or inverted personalities of their former selves. And with teh Forsaken, this is often the case.

And do you honestly think the average human would be okay sitting in, say, a bar, next to a rotting corpse that literally can't hold their liquor because if falls out of them?

Even the Horde find the Forsaken repulsive. They only get along with them because the Horde bases every aspect of their culture around fighting, and the Forsaken bring some very obvious advantages to a battlefield.

Also, Humans are all about the Light and the undead in general aren't big fans of that.
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