The Argument against Playable...

90 Blood Elf Paladin
13400
OGRES.

That's right, I'm going there. Ogres. Whenever some shmuck brings up playable high elves, the next breath out of their cheeto-glazed lips is usually "Horde get ogerrrsss, is gud for nex spanshun." Now I've already heard the High Elf thing debated to death, undeath, re-death, and re-undeath, but everyone seems to have this asinine consensus that adding Ogres to the playable races is a good thing.

I think not. I think it's a terrible thing, and Ogres are a terrible choice. There are a few notable reasons why I don't think Playable Ogres should ever be considered on any level.

Firstly, the ones we could justifiably play are being killed en masse by both factions. Not only that, but a good chunk of them were even slaughtered by the Black Dragonflight in Dustwallow. They're essentially going the way of the Zandalar/Gurubashi/Amani trolls, with little sign of stopping. It's a miracle we haven't completely sent their blubbery behinds into extinction at this rate.

Secondly, they have no real central hub or city, nor do they have any appealing architecture that would even add anything to the current central hub of the Horde, Orgrimmar. unless they made room for an ogre mound somewhere. Come to think of it, perhaps Garrosh's current throne room would make a good ogre mound...aside from that, though, the Ogres only really have Brackenwall and the one encampment in Feralas. Outland is also a strong possibility, but we may not see the same scale of revamping on BC content that we saw with a majority of Vanilla.

Thirdly, they have no true racial leader, and before you say REXXAR REXXAR, there's no guarantee this dude will even take a position of leadership given his outlook on life and personality. Leadership isn't his thing, so don't think the Mok'Nathal beastmaster is suddenly going to lead the ogres into the Horde. Cho'gall is dead, not to mention he was an Old God worshipping nutter. Overlord Mok'Morrok couldn't even keep his position as head of Brackenwall.

As one last contention against playable ogres, I'll just say that they're dumb. Completely and unabashedly dumb. Even the two headed ones are dumb. Just a completely different brand of dumb, really. Every race has the potential to cross different capacities of wisdom and knowledge, from dumb as dirt peons and peasants to wizened shaman and mages. Ogres have none of that. They're just dumb as rocks, and not befitting of a playable race. Just imagine the writers writing dumb things for a dumb race. They're already writing dumb things for smarter ones. You're just asking for trouble with ogres. Do you -really- want to play a stupid race? Really?

Really?

Besides, why are we arguing for Ogres to be in the Horde? They are in the Horde. They just serve the same purpose as the High Elves do on the Alliance: to be that pretty (ugly) race that acts as support to the main cast of players.

And don't even get me started on the Naga...
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90 Goblin Rogue
4855
What!? Orges are cool. Who wouldn't want to be a two-headed orge warlock that argues with yourself?

"I'm casting shadowbolt." "No, You're casting incinerate!" "Why would I cast incinerate?" "Because its fire and its cool, now shut up and cast it!" "But I'm specced demo." "Well I'm specced destruction......you're casting incinerate -_- "
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90 Orc Warlock
11315
I think you've actually picked some of the weaker arguments against ogres.

-there are a number of ogres that aren't hostile, especially to the Horde. Brackenwall Village and the new ogre outpost in Feralas are Horde quest hubs, and there's Ogri'la and friendly ogres sprinkled throughout the game.

-half the races we play already don't have a central hub. Goblins, worgen and pandaren start off in their own zone and then get corners in other cities. It wouldn't be onerous to add an ogre bit to Orgrimmar.

-racial leaders can be invented, look at Gallywix or Velen. Rexxar might not be a good pick for the racial leader, but he could easily make for a strong supporting character.

-ogre stupidity isn't really a barrier to playing the race. There are already dumb orcs that, if you model-swapped them, could pass easily as ogres.

No, I think the best reason against playable ogres is much more simple - they bring nothing to the table that the Horde doesn't already have. At heart they're a big, looming tribal race...and the Horde already has three big, looming tribal races. Ogre mages? The Horde has elven mages. In theory (if not always in practice) new races add dimension to their factions - draenei brought an alien aesthetic and shamanism to the Alliance while the blood elves counterbalanced the Horde's tribalistic bent. Worgen were intended to bring a savage aspect to the Alliance (how successful they were is another story) and goblins brought a small, spry, techy race to the Horde. Pandaren brought kung fu.

Ogres don't really bring anything that you couldn't handle with a big, dumb orc, or else an orc or troll mage.
Edited by Kurze on 2/8/2013 5:28 AM PST
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
I believe there's also an ogre fort/mound/whatever in the Blasted Lands.

Anyway, I agree they shouldn't be added, but for a different reason. Current races only sporadically get lore, and some only get it once every few years, if they're lucky. Inflating the number of playables even more just exacerbates the issue.
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90 Human Death Knight
0
I can see the argument that BC should have been Blood Elves for Alliance and Ogres for Horde. I think the main reasons that wasn't done was because Horde needed a "pretty" race, and Ogres are even bigger than Tauren, and Tauren already had trouble fitting through some doors.

I can't see them adding High Elves to the Alliance now, though, even with Pandaren blurring the racial faction lines.
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90 Orc Warlock
11315
02/08/2013 05:28 AMPosted by Gandred
I believe there's also an ogre fort/mound/whatever in the Blasted Lands.


Unfortunately that was supplanted with yet another orc fortress with a racist orc commander, with the ogres reduced to quest mobs for beating and enslavement.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/08/2013 05:36 AMPosted by Kurze
Unfortunately that was supplanted with yet another orc fortress with a racist orc commander, with the ogres reduced to quest mobs for beating and enslavement.


Really? Ah well, I suppose we can never have enough orc forts.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
13390
What!? Orges are cool. Who wouldn't want to be a two-headed orge warlock that argues with yourself?

"I'm casting shadowbolt." "No, You're casting incinerate!" "Why would I cast incinerate?" "Because its fire and its cool, now shut up and cast it!" "But I'm specced demo." "Well I'm specced destruction......you're casting incinerate -_- "


This just completely destroyed any argument against ogres.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13400
What!? Orges are cool. Who wouldn't want to be a two-headed orge warlock that argues with yourself?

"I'm casting shadowbolt." "No, You're casting incinerate!" "Why would I cast incinerate?" "Because its fire and its cool, now shut up and cast it!" "But I'm specced demo." "Well I'm specced destruction......you're casting incinerate -_- "


This just completely destroyed any argument against ogres.


I'd sure love to see how that'll work with current game mechanics, and even if it did, no serious player in their right mind would even consider rolling an ogre at that rate.
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90 Orc Warlock
11315
02/08/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Gandred
Really? Ah well, I suppose we can never have enough orc forts.


It's such a shame - the first time I got to Agmar's Hammer I thought that place was awesome.

But then in Cataclysm they plopped it down bloody everywhere. Valley of Honor, Zoram'gar, Conquest Hold, Krom'gar, New Kargath (how did they even fart that one out?), Dragonmaw Port, Desolation Hold, Dreadmaul Hold, now Domination Point...all of them look the same with maybe 5% little tweaks. Man did it get old fast.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13400
02/08/2013 05:45 AMPosted by Kurze
Really? Ah well, I suppose we can never have enough orc forts.


It's such a shame - the first time I got to Agmar's Hammer I thought that place was awesome.

But then in Cataclysm they plopped it down bloody everywhere. Valley of Honor, Zoram'gar, Conquest Hold, Krom'gar, New Kargath (how did they even fart that one out?), Dragonmaw Port, Desolation Hold, Dreadmaul Hold, now Domination Point...all of them look the same with maybe 5% little tweaks. Man did it get old fast.


Spikes...

Never can have too many spikes...
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90 Orc Warlock
11315
Spikes...

Never can have too many spikes...


"NEEDS MORE SPIKES!"

"We're out of metal, we'll have to wait until the next ship-"

"THEN STONE SPIKES!"

"We'd have to widen the quarry for more rock-"

"WOODEN SPIKES!"

"...wooden spikes?"

"DO IT!"
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90 Human Death Knight
0
"NEEDS MORE SPIKES!"

"We're out of metal, we'll have to wait until the next ship-"

"THEN STONE SPIKES!"

"We'd have to widen the quarry for more rock-"

"WOODEN SPIKES!"

"...wooden spikes?"

"DO IT!"


Sorry, we're fresh out of spikes, but we subcontracted out to the Ebon Blade, and they're willing to add some skulls. Maybe stick some skulls on the existing spikes.
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90 Undead Mage
7375
02/08/2013 05:11 AMPosted by Raynell
I think it's a terrible thing, and Ogres are a terrible choice. There are a few notable reasons why I don't think Playable Ogres should ever be considered on any level.


Yes indeed.
a) Horde already have an oversized race - tauren.
b) Horde already have a brutish, warrior race that pride themselves on violence in the name of 'honour' - orcs.

But ogre would round off a 'reunion' of the old horde forces...
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90 Human Monk
2460
I would never play an Ogre personally, however, they could happen.

The Ogres of Ogri'la have been uniting the Ogres for over half a decade now. They are on good terms with the Horde and Alliance. Blades Edge is full of Ogres.

All Blizzard would have to do is give those Ogres a reason to join the Horde.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
I would never play an Ogre personally, however, they could happen.

The Ogres of Ogri'la have been uniting the Ogres for over half a decade now. They are on good terms with the Horde and Alliance. Blades Edge is full of Ogres.

All Blizzard would have to do is give those Ogres a reason to join the Horde.


That is easy, Some of those Ogres will be fleeing some kind of disaster, then suddenly we will see an Alliance commander who is kidnapping Rexxar who is on his way to fight the Legion and then the Alliance will notice the ogres and the commander will order his people to kill the Ogres too so there are no witnesses to their attack. BAM! Playable Ogres :P
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90 Human Death Knight
0
02/08/2013 08:52 AMPosted by Genbutnaked
"Sir we are in the DESSERT, the whole reason for the war is..."


http://pbfcomics.com/145
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I would never play an Ogre personally, however, they could happen.

The Ogres of Ogri'la have been uniting the Ogres for over half a decade now. They are on good terms with the Horde and Alliance. Blades Edge is full of Ogres.

All Blizzard would have to do is give those Ogres a reason to join the Horde.


That is easy, Some of those Ogres will be fleeing some kind of disaster, then suddenly we will see an Alliance commander who is kidnapping Rexxar who is on his way to fight the Legion and then the Alliance will notice the ogres and the commander will order his people to kill the Ogres too so there are no witnesses to their attack. BAM! Playable Ogres :P


They then become shipwrecked on an island where they will ally with the Horde to beat back the Alliance and their leader will be someone who no one likes.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
7950
No, I think the best reason against playable ogres is much more simple - they bring nothing to the table that the Horde doesn't already have. At heart they're a big, looming tribal race...and the Horde already has three big, looming tribal races. Ogre mages? The Horde has elven mages. In theory (if not always in practice) new races add dimension to their factions - draenei brought an alien aesthetic and shamanism to the Alliance while the blood elves counterbalanced the Horde's tribalistic bent. Worgen were intended to bring a savage aspect to the Alliance (how successful they were is another story) and goblins brought a small, spry, techy race to the Horde. Pandaren brought kung fu.

Ogres don't really bring anything that you couldn't handle with a big, dumb orc, or else an orc or troll mage.


I'm willing to tolerate High Elves and Ogres and this actually sums up the reason why quite nicely. I don't want new stuff all the time. I want to develop the stuff we already have now. The new races just get forgotten by the next expansion anyway so why bother adding them at all?

But each to their own I guess.
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