Rogues are Fine

80 Human Priest
3225
02/08/2013 11:11 AMPosted by Ruinedit
To be fair, the issue is kind of that they get absolutely destroyed by Warriors and Hunters... and KFC happens to be the top comp...


Everyone gets destroyed by KFC...is the solution to make it so every dps class can kill someone in 5secs coming out of stealth?
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02/08/2013 11:49 AMPosted by Primiez
Everyone gets destroyed by KFC...is the solution to make it so every dps class can kill someone in 5secs coming out of stealth?


Rogues are particularly weak against Warriors, Hunters, and WW Monks (although you don't see many Monks). It's difficult for a Rogue to put up any counter pressure with a Warrior (or, to a lesser extent, Monk) on them. Other plate melee (Ret/DK) will also tend to put out more pressure on a Rogue, and Ferals have crazy burst on Rogues. Rogues will put out more pressure against Enhancement, in general.

Against casters, it's a bit different. Rogues have a number of tools to lock down casters for long periods of time. Resto Shamans (and Ele Shamans) in particular can be quite squishy against a Rogue. Boomkin do slightly better but will still tend to be locked down by a Rogue. Warlocks have decent counter-control and survivability cooldowns, but they'll have trouble killing the Rogue as well and it'll probably be an annoying fight. Mages are probably the strongest caster against Rogues.

The difference is that against melee (and Hunters), Rogues will take significantly more pressure than they can return (sometimes at a ratio of 2:1). Against DPS casters, Rogues will be annoying, but the actual damage/pressure will probably be close to a 1:1 ratio (except against Elemental Shamans). Against healers, Rogues have the ability to lock down some (RShamans, to a lesser extent HPallies) for a considerable period of time. RDruid tend to be harder to keep uptime on as a Rogue, and a well-played MW Monk is near impossible to stay on.

When you see people commenting on Rogues, you'll usually see casters complain about their control, and other melee agree they need more survivability, for basically the same reasons as above.
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I think once warriors and hunters get toned down rogues should be fine. specially with the buffs rogues are getting.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4230
male draenei
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80 Human Priest
3225
a mage can kill someone in a deep.

a rogue can kill someone in a dance.

I dont see the problem here? if someone lines you up with cooldowns, and you get no peels, you are going to die...no matter what class you look at.


You have some serious issues with the mage class...
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90 Night Elf Druid
4230
a mage can kill someone in a deep.

a rogue can kill someone in a dance.

I dont see the problem here? if someone lines you up with cooldowns, and you get no peels, you are going to die...no matter what class you look at.


well i havent watched his video

but i dnt remember a rogue ever being able to solo a healer in 1 dance b4 evn in their cata hey days.

they are able to solo now evn at 65% resil in mop
Edited by Kitteykat on 2/8/2013 2:09 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
7680
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ippE7oJRq1Q

Stop crying for buffs.


lol hhtd
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90 Human Rogue
6740
I"m not one to rain on peoples parades but that video was just aweful....and this is coming from an average rogue.
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Whoever was playing that rouge is beyond terrible, also, assassin takes little to no skill considering all of your damage is from dots... I cant even imagine how this guy manages to play sub if he even does...
Edited by Rainymood on 2/8/2013 2:10 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
4230


warriors can blow people up, hunters, rogues, mages, you name it. this isnt anything new tbh. even a ret is going to blow up someone sitting in a full FoJ with no peels, with cds going.



cuz they didnt in the previous few seasons?

and Rets cant kill someone frm full to zero evn in FOJ right now. it must hav been him and his partner together. or the target is really undergeared.
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80 Human Priest
3225


You have some serious issues with the mage class...


not at all...

but why should people expect not to die in a dance with a trinket going? if you are in a full kidney, with a bleed on you, why shouldnt a rogue be able to blow someone up? other classes do the same thing.

warriors can blow people up, hunters, rogues, mages, you name it. this isnt anything new tbh. even a ret is going to blow up someone sitting in a full FoJ with no peels, with cds going.

my point is, if other classes can do it, why not rogues? especially with shadow dance?


What you are saying isn't true...

Demo locks can't blow someone up in a axe toss from 100-0
WW monks can't blow someone up from 100-0 in a FoF or Leg Sweep
Elemental Shaman do not blow people up in a compacitor stun from 100-0
Frost DKs don't 100-0 me in a stun

I think you are not fully taking into account the amount of damage it takes to kill someone from 100-0 in 1 stun at 65%+ resilience.

That just should not be possible for anyone. The fact that mages and warriors can do it is broken and should be fixed. Because two classes can do it, saying it's ok for rogues to do it is flawed.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11925
so if im understanding things right:

killed in deep, ok

killed with dance, not ok

rogues, much like mages, rely on bursting hard, in addition to providing cc/control...I dont see the issue.


Deeps can be dispelled can't they? Also they can be cc'd.

Rogue stuns can't be dispelled. You either trinket or have some move you can use while stunned. Which not everyone can do. Also they tend to combine dancing with bombs when they want to burst. Makes peeling a lot harder. Even if you run in.
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90 Human Hunter
13130
I could make a level 15 Rogue BG Montage more entertaining than this
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90 Night Elf Druid
4230
so if im understanding things right:

killed in deep, ok

killed with dance, not ok

rogues, much like mages, rely on bursting hard, in addition to providing cc/control...I dont see the issue.


i just didnt want to make 1 big post. im not favouring mages in anyway whatsoever. they can do it too.

my hpally with 65% res got downed frm 100- near 0 by full mal upgraded T2 mage on BG9 in a deep + CS combo i had to bubble. u dnt jus go down to 30% hp like some1 said lol.

dnt take my word for it watch high-rated streams ssame crap happens and they had to bbubble almost immediately.

dmg is over the top across the board not just rogues ppl ar stacking res like crazy.

I jus dnt remeber classes can do this much dmg back in Cata by "themselves" (except mayb pre-vial nerf and ret seal bug) when ppl werent evn stacking as much resilence.
Edited by Kitteykat on 2/8/2013 3:11 PM PST
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90 Undead Mage
11475
02/08/2013 03:08 PMPosted by Ryiutiz
I could make a level 15 Rogue BG Montage more entertaining than this


if you do i will watch <3
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90 Draenei Mage
6225
Rogues are fine the only thing blizzard should have done was given rogues Burst of speed baseline (so it still gets out of roots made it replace sprint) and kept prep and step as choices. Most rogues will not die unless they have no cds vanish is a rogues form of bubble and giving them the chance to refresh it with subterfuge and more energy is stupid sub is not for good players its for noobs at this stage of the game. The rogues complaining are not playing combat or assin maybe its time to learn something other then hitting ambush in dance.

Players will be getting killed in under 5 seconds in 5.2 and people will be complaining. All they needed to in 5.1 was slow warriors down a bit (put a 20 second cd between heroic leap, charge and intervine) This would have made it posible to kite a warrior remember those days. Then reduce hunters burst out side of cds and game would be fine.

All this boo hoo about rogues needing buffs is just not true its Cata rogue cry babies and they never knew how to play the class in the first place!
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90 Human Warrior
6505
He ran 2 bgs and made a video it was more of a joke I talked to him the funniest part is that he had to hit F9 again well he was killing that rogue. Video a side I have played both a hunter and warrior over 85 and there both doing to much damage for the amount of cc they have. Buffing rogues is not the answer and buffing sub is stupid there is no set up just burst away.
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