Skillful Ret paladin who desires to be viable

100 Human Paladin
12840
These are changes I would consider for ret paladin's inorder to make them a more skillfull and well rounded support class.
Currently ret does not fit the description blizzard has for paladins at all.
For a New player this is how paladins are described by blizzard. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/class/paladin

Currently paladins are so far from there role that the class has become more of a joke than anything. Currently we are all about a 30 second burst window and after that the sustain damage is less than a warriors healing from second wind. With weak heals and a lack of abilitys to protect your team, the class needs evaluation to say the least.
Our Hand of Blank's are all dispellable and have not been given any evolution or complexity since they where made.

So these are the changes I propose

[Hand of Salvation] is not used at all outside of raiding, when you cast Hand of Salvation on the target they become uncritable. This would add more diversity to a paladins arsinal of ways to support his team in pvp.

[Hand of Freedom] Hand of freedom would reduce the duration of stun by 50%, if you cast it twice the stun is removed. This would be a smart thing to do because it adds another aspect to freedom where the paladin has to think ok do I want to use freedom to get out of this slow or to reduce the incoming stun.

[Hand of Sacrifice] I have a few ideas for this spell but blizzard on 5.2 ptr made it dispell the affected target, however this is not as good as shadowpriest dispell's but it's nice to have 1/100th of my old dispell back...

[Holy avenger] I would make it a 30 second cooldown that Makes your next 2-3 holypower generating moves give you 3 holypower and also increase the holy dmg of your next tv by 45-65%. You would have to Slightly buff all of our damage moves to compensate for the change, as we would lose alot of burst.
Instead of this being another long 2 min burst cd, I would turn it into more of a tigers fury rotational burst. Ret has a 5 minute cd pet and a 3 minute cooldown on wings it does not need a 3rd.
All that does is design us around being a all out or nothing spec which is wrong for the paladin role. For no reason should I out damage true Dps classes for 30 seconds and than be out dpsed by a pet once my cooldowns are gone.

[Crusader strike] currently this move hits for 8-11k nonecrit depending on the targets resilence and 20-22k crit. I would remove the cooldown from this ability or make it a 1s cd. I think having cs as that move you spam like sinsiter strike or mangle makes more sense than any in buffing there sustain because of the dead time in the rotation, you might have to reduce a % of wep dmg slightly if this is done.

[Long arm of the law] I would make it give you a speed increase if the target is more than 10 ft away and a 50% slow to the target if they are less than 10 feet away.

[Divine Protection] Should be castable while stunned at the very least. We Lack any serious midigation considering 75% of the arena comps and all Rbg comps can remove my only large midigation in .5-1.5 seconds

[Repentance] Repentance has always been a ret move and we never had to choose between it or a reliable stun. So I propose it remain Ret only on a 30-40s cd.
Also Each holy power should also increase it's cast speed by 1/3, and 3/3 holypower is instant cast.

[Emancipate] this is more of a question in regardess to Emancipate. Why did you Change our self dispell from being a remove all impairing affects to removing one? This really hurts considering we are the only melee without a massive way out of CC, Berserker rage, Sham rage, tremer totem, lichbourne, icebound, Ams, or passively being immune to poly affects like feral.The new emancipate is terrible it cost 1/6th of my entire mana pool and you almost always have to cast it multipule times to reach your desired affect.

One thing that is important when balancing paladins is spreading out the buffs, you cant massivly buff Flash of light for example and than leave wog weak. You should Add A medium volume of increases to both no one wants to go back to a season where a Ret paladin can top someone off in one cast but instead a class that can heal someone up and protect them with a combination of spells. One last for note blizzard before you procced with fixing this class you should google the world balance.
Edited by Arthist on 2/9/2013 12:31 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
8935
02/08/2013 05:56 PMPosted by Arthist
[Long arm of the law] I would make it give you a speed increase if the target is more than 10 ft away and a 50% slow to the target if they are less than 10 feet away.

Take Burden of Guilt if you really think you want a snare.

02/08/2013 05:56 PMPosted by Arthist
[Crusader strike] currently this move hits for 8-11k nonecrit depending on the targets resilence and 20-22k crit. I would remove the cooldown from this ability or make it a 1s cd. I think having cs as that move you spam like sinsiter strike or mangle makes more sense than any in buffing there sustain because of the dead time in the rotation, you might have to reduce a % of wep dmg slightly if this is done.

Just....no....
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20970
I uh, lol

02/09/2013 01:52 AMPosted by Karod
Just....no....
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100 Human Paladin
11875
[Crusader strike] currently this move hits for 8-11k nonecrit depending on the targets resilence and 20-22k crit. I would remove the cooldown from this ability or make it a 1s cd. I think having cs as that move you spam like sinsiter strike or mangle makes more sense than any in buffing there sustain because of the dead time in the rotation, you might have to reduce a % of wep dmg slightly if this is done.

uhh are you sure you are correct ? my cs on full geared players when im in full malv hits for 30-40k
Edited by Wowadín on 2/11/2013 5:30 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10410
I've been at ilvl 486 for a few weeks now. Since I hit this level I have yet to finish below 1st in any heroic dungeon I have run, usually putting out 60-70K per run. I have yet to finish out of the top 5 in any LFR run, with most of those finishing 2nd or 3rd and hitting for around 80 to 90K dps on tank and spank bosses and around 70 to 75K on mobile bosses.

I'm not sure where all of this Ret is broken crap is coming from. I'm far from an elite player and I'm plenty viable right now.

** I always forget all you people talk about is pvp on here. forget everything I said, pvp sucks.
Edited by Nimaj on 2/11/2013 6:30 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20925
02/11/2013 06:29 PMPosted by Nimaj
I'm not sure where all of this Ret is broken crap is coming from.


Mostly it's from people who have or have watched an awful frost DK mash howling blast to victory and do better than them, don't understand why, think that every class should have as high of a floor as that, and don't understand why they don't.

:D
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90 Human Paladin
6885
Honestly. we should be asking for OP !@#$, blizz will tone it down anyway, if we ask for average not op %^-*, then blizz will give us something useless.

I liked most of the ideas, and we should be asking for stuff that is more over the top tbh.
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90 Human Paladin
9290
These are changes I would consider for ret paladin's inorder to make them a more skillfull and well rounded support class.
Currently ret does not fit the description blizzard has for paladins at all.
For a New player this is how paladins are described by blizzard. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/class/paladin

Currently paladins are so far from there role that the class has become more of a joke than anything. Currently we are all about a 30 second burst window and after that the sustain damage is less than a warriors healing from second wind. With weak heals and a lack of abilitys to protect your team, the class needs evaluation to say the least.
Our Hand of Blank's are all dispellable and have not been given any evolution or complexity since they where made.

So these are the changes I propose

[Hand of Salvation] is not used at all outside of raiding, when you cast Hand of Salvation on the target they become uncritable. This would add more diversity to a paladins arsinal of ways to support his team in pvp.

[Hand of Freedom] Hand of freedom would reduce the duration of stun by 50%, if you cast it twice the stun is removed. This would be a smart thing to do because it adds another aspect to freedom where the paladin has to think ok do I want to use freedom to get out of this slow or to reduce the incoming stun.

[Hand of Sacrifice] I have a few ideas for this spell but blizzard on 5.2 ptr made it dispell the affected target, however this is not as good as shadowpriest dispell's but it's nice to have 1/100th of my old dispell back...

[Holy avenger] I would make it a 30 second cooldown that Makes your next 2-3 holypower generating moves give you 3 holypower and also increase the holy dmg of your next tv by 45-65%. You would have to Slightly buff all of our damage moves to compensate for the change, as we would lose alot of burst.
Instead of this being another long 2 min burst cd, I would turn it into more of a tigers fury rotational burst. Ret has a 5 minute cd pet and a 3 minute cooldown on wings it does not need a 3rd.
All that does is design us around being a all out or nothing spec which is wrong for the paladin role. For no reason should I out damage true Dps classes for 30 seconds and than be out dpsed by a pet once my cooldowns are gone.

[Crusader strike] currently this move hits for 8-11k nonecrit depending on the targets resilence and 20-22k crit. I would remove the cooldown from this ability or make it a 1s cd. I think having cs as that move you spam like sinsiter strike or mangle makes more sense than any in buffing there sustain because of the dead time in the rotation, you might have to reduce a % of wep dmg slightly if this is done.

[Long arm of the law] I would make it give you a speed increase if the target is more than 10 ft away and a 50% slow to the target if they are less than 10 feet away.

[Divine Protection] Should be castable while stunned at the very least. We Lack any serious midigation considering 75% of the arena comps and all Rbg comps can remove my only large midigation in .5-1.5 seconds

[Repentance] Repentance has always been a ret move and we never had to choose between it or a reliable stun. So I propose it remain Ret only on a 30-40s cd.
Also Each holy power should also increase it's cast speed by 1/3, and 3/3 holypower is instant cast.

[Emancipate] this is more of a question in regardess to Emancipate. Why did you Change our self dispell from being a remove all impairing affects to removing one? This really hurts considering we are the only melee without a massive way out of CC, Berserker rage, Sham rage, tremer totem, lichbourne, icebound, Ams, or passively being immune to poly affects like feral.The new emancipate is terrible it cost 1/6th of my entire mana pool and you almost always have to cast it multipule times to reach your desired affect.

One thing that is important when balancing paladins is spreading out the buffs, you cant massivly buff Flash of light for example and than leave wog weak. You should Add A medium volume of increases to both no one wants to go back to a season where a Ret paladin can top someone off in one cast but instead a class that can heal someone up and protect them with a combination of spells. One last for note blizzard before you procced with fixing this class you should google the world balance.


THIS guy ftw.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9485
02/11/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Arthist
And btw nice Achievs i see your highest rating is only 1550 and it was in a season when paladins where in a better spot. Terrible Players should give input it only confuses ghostcrawlers as he is just as big of noob as you.


Ah, here we go....the "you're only 1550 so you have no right to contribute" crap.
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100 Human Paladin
12840
you will only get 30-40k, while your cooldowns are up sustain is differnt from Burst.
If you are hiting for 30-40k againts full malv without cooldowns than your the hardest hiting ret in world
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86 Dwarf Shaman
18830
02/12/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Pallydrome
Ah, here we go....the "you're only 1550 so you have no right to contribute" crap.

Deleted by Arthist
xD

you will only get 30-40k, while your cooldowns are up sustain is differnt from Burst.
If you are hiting for 30-40k againts full malv without cooldowns than your the hardest hiting ret in world

dat t1 weapon great skillful beast you
Edited by Thermy on 2/12/2013 8:33 AM PST
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100 Human Paladin
12840
iv been 2400+ in almost every season as ret while running second grade comps. None of your reason's are even logical, ret use to have almost half of the things i listed as utility in prior expansions slowly but surely they removed all of our utiltiy and replaced it with a kick and more damage... Ya lets remove utility from a support class and give them more big offensive cds than any true damage class.

By blizzards class definitions paladins are suppose to be able to save an ally with hand's and heals, our blessings are unevolved and are countered by the press of one offensive dispell. Why take a ret paladin into a pvp situation when his hands of blanks and offheals are not affective enough to do the job, Paladins should have to use a combination of heals/hand's inorder to affectivly support a team memeber. Ret use be able to dispell magic from his healer and freedom/bop them out of a bad situation, this was at a period when ret healing and damage was not op but balanced. We Use to have Medium CC, Average midigation , average damage average healing. Now we have Poop CC, next to no midigation, High Burst low sustain, trash utility the only good hand pallys have is bop.
And few to little ways to save a team member in a expansion of Retarded burst.

Hand of salvation has a 2 minute cooldown, a hpally can keep denounce up all the time... clearly not op.

In more specific regardess to freedom, leting it reduce stun would add a entire new aspect to it. Waste would emply it did not benifit you at all, freedom removing or half way removing yourself or an teammate from a stun is far from a waste. On the other hand casting freedom to remove a slow and watching it removed even though you recast might/kings to blanket it from insta dispelled is a waste. The hole idea is to add more of a decision procces to the paladin role...

[Emancipate] You shouldn't be spam cleansing yourself it is probably why you are going oom. You should not have an issue with mana as ret???
If a frostmage for example has mirror image up and each of the 4 mirror images applys a slow and than the mage applys his slow and a root, the paladin with the current emancipate design would have to dispell each slow indidually, Just last expansion our dispell removed all slows and roots in one cast. Read the description of emancipate it's very trolly to me...

Unshackles your spirit, freeing you from... one movement impairing affect.
Its like saying look your free, kinda...

I also find it funny that you think my changes would be more op than what they are doing to monks. Both ret and monk reputation is low but only monks get serious and direct buff's? oh ya and RET HAS SO much instant CC KEEP REPENT A CAST TIME... than LETS ADD RING OF PEACE TO A CLASS THAT HAS 2 AOE STUNS A BLANKET SILENCE A RANGE DISARM ect..... blizzard logic
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100 Human Paladin
12840
You wont duel me on my ret paladin or any of my toons because your poop and i will beat you 1v1 and put ur noob face on youtube. You can also compare our achievments and statstics and you wil notice. I am a higher caliber of player than you, Learn to speak up to players better than you and down upon players who are less than you as I am doing here.

<My Alt account is better than ur main account's achivements GG.
Edited by Arthist on 2/12/2013 10:02 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20970
iv been 2400+ in almost every season as ret while running second grade comps. None of your reason's are even logical, ret use to have almost half of the things i listed as utility in prior expansions slowly but surely they removed all of our utiltiy and replaced it with a kick and more damage... Ya lets remove utility from a support class and give them more big offensive cds than any true damage class.

By blizzards class definitions paladins are suppose to be able to save an ally with hand's and heals, our blessings are unevolved and are countered by the press of one offensive dispell. Why take a ret paladin into a pvp situation when his hands of blanks and offheals are not affective enough to do the job, Paladins should have to use a combination of heals/hand's inorder to affectivly support a team memeber. Ret use be able to dispell magic from his healer and freedom/bop them out of a bad situation, this was at a period when ret healing and damage was not op but balanced. We Use to have Medium CC, Average midigation , average damage average healing. Now we have Poop CC, next to no midigation, High Burst low sustain, trash utility the only good hand pallys have is bop.
And few to little ways to save a team member in a expansion of Retarded burst.

Hand of salvation has a 2 minute cooldown, a hpally can keep denounce up all the time... clearly not op.

In more specific regardess to freedom, leting it reduce stun would add a entire new aspect to it. Waste would emply it did not benifit you at all, freedom removing or half way removing yourself or an teammate from a stun is far from a waste. On the other hand casting freedom to remove a slow and watching it removed even though you recast might/kings to blanket it from insta dispelled is a waste. The hole idea is to add more of a decision procces to the paladin role...

[Emancipate] You shouldn't be spam cleansing yourself it is probably why you are going oom. You should not have an issue with mana as ret???
If a frostmage for example has mirror image up and each of the 4 mirror images applys a slow and than the mage applys his slow and a root, the paladin with the current emancipate design would have to dispell each slow indidually, Just last expansion our dispell removed all slows and roots in one cast. Read the description of emancipate it's very trolly to me...

Unshackles your spirit, freeing you from... one movement impairing affect.
Its like saying look your free, kinda...

I also find it funny that you think my changes would be more op than what they are doing to monks. Both ret and monk reputation is low but only monks get serious and direct buff's? oh ya and RET HAS SO much instant CC KEEP REPENT A CAST TIME... than LETS ADD RING OF PEACE TO A CLASS THAT HAS 2 AOE STUNS A BLANKET SILENCE A RANGE DISARM ect..... blizzard logic


You wont duel me on my ret paladin or my enhancment shaman because your poop and i will beat you 1v1 and put ur noob face on youtube. You can also compare our achievments and statstics and you wil notice. I am a higher caliber of player than you, Learn to speak up to players better than you and down upon players who are less than you as I am doing here.And deleted by arthist... that was a post I deleted and redited I never deleted anyone's post I let noob's such as urself post their feeble idea's

<My Alt account is better than ur main account's achivements GG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLlGStJzVio
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