Blackout kick nerf

90 Draenei Monk
7275
"Blackout Kick no longer stacks up to 2 times."

This cuts our auto attack healing in half. Ouch.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
5085
Well, I don't PVE so i'm not going to act like I do, but Blackout Kick is getting a 200% increased damage buff (When you jab). Won't it balance out?
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90 Draenei Monk
7275
02/08/2013 09:59 PMPosted by Peithne
Well, I don't PVE so i'm not going to act like I do, but Blackout Kick is getting a 200% increased damage buff (When you jab). Won't it balance out?


No. Blackout kick gives us a buff that allows either 25% (if there's 1 stack) or 50% (if there's 2) of our auto attack damage to be converted into smart healing for the raid. It's a nerf to auto attack heals... not healing from blackout kick.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
5085
02/08/2013 10:01 PMPosted by Ariviola
Well, I don't PVE so i'm not going to act like I do, but Blackout Kick is getting a 200% increased damage buff (When you jab). Won't it balance out?


No. Blackout kick gives us a buff that allows either 25% (if there's 1 stack) or 50% (if there's 2) of our auto attack damage to be converted into smart healing for the raid. It's a nerf to auto attack heals... not healing from blackout kick.


Hm, I see. Maybe they're taking a stance on Fistweaving?
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
Check out the other buffs we got, we actually have to use yellow attacks to melee heals instead of buff maintenance.
Edited by Kungfuwaifu on 2/8/2013 10:06 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
It essentially does hurt our AoE fistweaving, simply because we can't just rely on AA for the sustain. Instead, we're going to be dumping more mana into having to use Jab more often for yellow healing. Because of the Muscle Memory buff, the Tiger Palm buff, and the cleave damage with BoK, we should be able to deal with spiky damage a lot better. The Jab/TP combo is great single target combo, and great with mana management, if what I've read is accurate.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
10730
02/08/2013 11:31 PMPosted by Fistlobster
The Jab/TP combo is great single target combo, and great with mana management, if what I've read is accurate.


Yeah it's supposedly mana positive even at relatively low spirit levels.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15380
The Jab/TP combo is great single target combo, and great with mana management, if what I've read is accurate.


Yeah it's supposedly mana positive even at relatively low spirit levels.


I am curious how it is mana positive?

1 jab = 12k
1 TP returns 1% (3k or 3,450 depending on talent choice) + 1 or 2 / 4 needed for 1 tea charge.

In the amount of time it took to do those (2 globals) your spirit only had time to return about 4k mana, At a pretty high spirit level.
Edited by Ashkongfu on 2/9/2013 7:34 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
10730
02/09/2013 07:33 AMPosted by Ashkongfu


Yeah it's supposedly mana positive even at relatively low spirit levels.


I am curious how it is mana positive?

1 jab = 12k
1 TP returns 1% (3k or 3,450 depending on talent choice) + 1 or 2 / 4 needed for 1 tea charge.

In the amount of time it took to do those (2 globals) your spirit only had time to return about 4k mana, At a pretty high spirit level.


Didn't make sense to me either, but that was from someone who tried it out on the ptr, haven't tried it myself. Hence "supposedly"... but meh. I would probably try it myself if I was still main spec MW.
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100 Pandaren Monk
13205
You're forgetting the mana tea charge you're generating by using those 4 tigerpalms.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
02/09/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Omwrecker
You're forgetting the mana tea charge you're generating by using those 4 tigerpalms.


No, it was listed (assuming it wasn't edited)...

Still:

3/4 jabs=36/48k mana out for 4 chi (depending on if power strikes and proc)
4 tp returns 12-14.5k depending on talents etc + 1+crit chance mana tea (another 12-14.5k each)

So unless you have a ps proc or mana tea crit proc you spend 48k and get back not more than 29k for a net loss of 19k, with a mana tea proc that drops to -5k, with a ps proc it is -7k. The only way the result is mana positive is if you have both a ps proc and a mana tea crit proc. With higher spirit levels your mana over time will be positive but that requires somewhere over 13k regen (with no procs).

It will certainly not be as hard on the mana bar as live to fistweave even with the increased jab cost though.
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90 Undead Monk
6195
[heuheuheu]
Edited by Ouchi on 2/9/2013 5:27 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
9480
They nerfed eminence in the patch to stack to 25% total. Each blackout kick was 12.5%. This makes it so we only have to blow chi on 1 to keep the buff going. This is a good thing. It sucks that eminence was nerfed because that is a direct healing nerf but this helps get stacks to full quickly.

Not to mention the increase in damage with the jab buff is a rather large increase. 200% damage to blackout kick and tiger palm should make up for it.
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100 Pandaren Monk
13205
Lets break it down

4xjab=48k mana at 12k each. THIS is the cost we're trying to negate. 48k. Ok now use 4x tigerpalm. This is equal to 4% mana at 1% each use. We'll go with ascension talent since its a flat value and we dont have to deal with procs. 4% mana back of 345000= 13800. That is just the mana back from TP. Since we used 4 chi from the 4 TP we get 1 charge of mana tea equal to another 4% of our mana back. So 13800+13800=27600. Now we add up GCDs to get what kind of passive mana regen we'd need to break even. 48000-27600=20400. Over 9 GCDs or 9 seconds we need to get back 20400 mana. Around 11.3k MP5. This is simple math, not factoring in crit chance or the fact that you'd glyph mana tea and only consume per 2 stacks but it gives you a rough idea as to how mana neutral or positive it is. Definitely not a mana loss while running jab+TP rotation

TLDR: 48k mana spent from Jab
13.8k gained from TP proc
13.8k gained from mana tea
11.3k passive MP5 over 9 seconds
....unless Im missing something
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