New Seal of Justice change

90 Human Paladin
8935
I have a question about it though, does it apply from auto attacks or only moves?

Kind of a stupid question but just wondering. :D
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90 Human Paladin
7285
I have a question about it though, does it apply from auto attacks or only moves?

Kind of a stupid question but just wondering. :D


on ptr, the tooltip reads "Fills you with holy light, causing melee attacks to apply justice to your target. Justice: the attacking paladin's next Templar's Verdict striking this target will also deal 25% weapon damage as Holy per application of Justice. Stacks up to 5 times."

i was on ptr a couple hours ago testing it, and i can confirm that it applies with auto attack and crusader strike. judgement isn't applying it yet. but i believe a post by ghost crawler confirmed that judgement is indeed suppose to apply it, so i'm sure it will get fixed in ptr eventually.
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90 Human Paladin
0
I have a question about it though, does it apply from auto attacks or only moves?

Kind of a stupid question but just wondering. :D


I would assume since it's a seal it'd be from both.

It'd be much weaker if it didn't proc from both since that would mean we'd be doubly punished for being kited which would make us miss our snare all the more. However if it procced from Judgment the way that Truth does, we'd be able to keep the stacks on a target with judgment until we closed range to use it.
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90 Human Paladin
0
02/09/2013 04:45 PMPosted by Invincible
So the tooltip is in place but not the actual affect. Lol cute.


this was common in the beta too. I wouldn't worry about it just yet.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
They won't complain because it's going to be TV/mastery/justice as separate numbers, and people only cry when HUEG NUMBAR BLIZZ?!

Plus our healing will be what they're crying about again.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
It's not, and everyone knows it, but the pitchforks are already coming out. zomg a video where a ret did 270k followed by a 180k on ptr! WORLD ENDING IMBALANCE!
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90 Human Paladin
17835
This is certainly an improvement if they can pull it off bug free before the patch goes live. It wont address all of our issues but having a little extra oomph outside of CDs and as well as some extra burst with the CDs is a good thing.

Not dispelable so we don't have to worry about that and it is a debuff so we shouldn't get people crying as much that they didn't know they were about to get hit for mega damage like the old taste for blood. If someone has 5 stacks of the debuff maybe they should hit a defensive CD if they dont want to feel the pain.

As for losing the snare I agree that there were a few times where it would come in handy but lets be honest how many people play without someone that cant snare? I think most decent Ret comps will have a DK/war/rogue/monk/mage/feral/hunter/lock/shaman/priest in it to do the snaring. Plus the old seal did so little damage along with the cost of 2 GCDs to switch to and from it that it was more pain than it was worth half the time anyway.

I would be more than happy if we could just use justice full time in pvp and only use truth when we need to keep someone out of stealth.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
02/09/2013 07:50 PMPosted by Invincible
I still don't see justice getting much use in PvP. As soon as wings go up people run and don't like back, even melees.

Better talent into BoG, then.

Sure is great having almost all of the talent tree set in stone for PvP. If you need a snare, you pretty much have to spec LAotL, BoG, Clemency, SH, and HP. The only choice is level 75. If someone else can snare for you, you're afforded the luxury of FoJ.

I said right from the start that our talent tree was a failure, between the obvious best choices and cannibalized remains of Retribution.
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90 Human Paladin
17835
I wouldn't say it will be non threatening before we have even seen it tested yet. If it does slightly lower damage over time but allows us to hit TVs at a 125% boost I think it could be better than truth is now.

If the damage does scale well then it will allow you to get in a bit more burst in between the times when you have your wings up so whoever you are on wont have the ability to just feel safe just cause your wings are over.

There is a lack of choices in the talent tree but that I really don't give a crap about as long as we are a half viable class.

It would be nice to have a snare but with all the other classes that already have one I don't see where it is a game breaker. I have been playing 2's with a frost DK and just let him do the snaring while I talent in to FOJ and I really don't see much of a difference than if I talented into BOG.

Obviously we are going to have to see it in action on the PTR and get the data in before we can say if it is going to be enough damage to switch from truth.

At least Blizzard is acknowledging that Ret needs some buffs and is trying to do something as opposed to a couple months back where they were saying we were the "model" that they wished they could get the other classes to.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
02/09/2013 09:18 PMPosted by Mavericace
It would be nice to have a snare but with all the other classes that already have one I don't see where it is a game breaker.

Gee I dunno, maybe when you're playing with a caster, or, heaven forbid, random BGs. Everyone else has one so there's literally no reason for Ret not to.

02/09/2013 09:18 PMPosted by Mavericace
At least Blizzard is acknowledging that Ret needs some buffs and is trying to do something

What they did to SoJ wasn't a buff, it was a change. Buffs don't involve removing parts of what it does.
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90 Human Paladin
17835
First of all mages, priests, locks, and shaman all have snares and almost anything else you play with will at least have a root or a stun for you to be able to pound away on something for a bit.

Second, just cause everyone else has something doesn't mean we are going to get it kind of like how we are the only melee class without a gap closer.

Third, Blizzard doesn't balance around duels and random BGs. If you have half a brain you can go around beating the living daylights out of people in random BGs with half of the current Ret toolkit.

Lastly, although SoJ is a complete rework if it is better than what it was before I would consider it a buff. If they changed SoJ so that they took away the snare and made it death grip every time you hit a judgement would you not consider that a buff?
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90 Human Paladin
10365
Bottom line is ret is a melee based spec. All specs that need to be in melee range to do their greatest potential damage should have a BASELINE snare.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
02/09/2013 10:08 PMPosted by Mavericace
If they changed SoJ so that they took away the snare and made it death grip every time you hit a judgement would you not consider that a buff?

Probably, but that's because it's still in the same vein: controlling enemy movement. Removing utility to improve damage is a complete change, not a buff, even if it makes the Seal so good we're s5 DK levels of OP. The only thing new SoJ has in common with the old one is the name.

02/09/2013 10:08 PMPosted by Mavericace
First of all mages, priests, locks, and shaman all have snares and almost anything else you play with will at least have a root or a stun for you to be able to pound away on something for a bit.

I was thinking for peeling purposes. Funny how I was just mentioning in another thread how most people can't see beyond themselves and their target.

02/09/2013 10:08 PMPosted by Mavericace
If you have half a brain you can go around beating the living daylights out of people in random BGs with half of the current Ret toolkit.

And? If there are no negatives to leaving the snare on SoJ, just don't remove it, simple as that. The argument about whether Ret should have a baseline snare was over as soon as MoP launched.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5930
Seriously guys, there's no reason for them to have to remove the SNARE ability from the seal just to buff our damage. I'm sorry but those days are OVER. I don't care if it's a buff to our seal, ret should have a friggin snare period.

There was NO reason they should have removed it from the seal. NONE other than to try to force us to spec into Burden of guilt, but that ain't gonna happen. Fist of justice is heaps better. We're pissed because the snare should be baseline. It's like the devs are living in the past, when paladins weren't supposed to have a snare.

Get a grip of yourself, we're in MoP, it's time for a snare to be baseline not something you have to friggin spec into. We shouldn't have to depend on other classes that have a snare, period. That GIMPS us.
Edited by Topples on 2/10/2013 3:37 AM PST
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