Would it be over-powered if our shocks.....

(Locked)

100 Draenei Shaman
9855
Didn't share a CD

Or

Don't cause a global CD?

Which would you perfer?
100 Pandaren Shaman
21155
Overpowered, no

Annoyingly boring, yes
100 Draenei Shaman
9855
Lol...doing more damage and having more control is boring? How? Sometimes you make me think you need a hug.
90 Human Death Knight
7045
Because then our rotation would be using shocks predominantly? That might be boring for her.
100 Draenei Shaman
9855
So do you agree?
90 Draenei Shaman
16690
Wouldn't be op, but it'd be a lot more boring than it already is.

02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Cliintous
Lol...doing more damage and having more control is boring? How?


Goes from being a meaningful choice between shocks to PRESS ALL THE BUTTONS! That'd be how T_T
Edited by Gistwiki on 2/9/2013 3:26 PM PST
90 Orc Shaman
10050
02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Cliintous
Lol...doing more damage and having more control is boring?


Because the whole emphasis of our shocks is that it's a choice. You either Earth Shock or Flame Shock depending on the situation of your current Flame Shock. By removing a shared CD, it would make both specs more mindless.

"Doing more damage" had nothing to do with it.
90 Tauren Hunter
11630
What about when you use a shock it puts the other 2 on a 3 second delay rather than putting em on a 6 second cd.
100 Orc Shaman
12570
I just want to see our fire shock dot reset on successful lava bursts.
83 Pandaren Shaman
13415
Removing the shared cd between Earth shock and Flame shock
would be a much needed QoL change.

Removing the cd on Flame shock itself would also help
with faster target switches or for faster reapplication
if we were to miss for any reason.
I've always felt the cd on that particular shock
was odd and unnecessary, considering the role it plays.

Looking at this from an elemental PoV
there really isn't a "choice" right now. More often than not
FS needs a refresh just as you get a 7 stack
Fulmination - choose to refresh FS and lose lightning shield charges;
choose to fulminate
and lose uptime on LvB as you wait
for Flame shock to come off cd. There really is no reward
for choosing one over the other. You simply just lose out.

Due to the mutual exclusivity of FS and ES,
and because both are essential to our dps, it's bad design
to leave them as is.

Removing that limitation would be leaps and bounds
better for the spec overrall without any change to the
rotation.

02/09/2013 03:24 PMPosted by Platform
Because the whole emphasis of our shocks is that it's a choice.


A choice between what exactly? Dps and dps?
If we were miles ahead of everyone else this would make sense.
That's just not the case. Choosing between cc and dps is a choice.
Having to choose between two core mechanics of your rotation is not.
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Cliintous
Lol...doing more damage and having more control is boring? How?


So if I gave you a spec that had one button, but you could pull 150k sustained single target would you have fun?

Rogues were pretty boring in TBC. about 50-60% of their damage came from white attacks. Which basically meant that if you auto-attacked, and managed your combo points terribly you would still do pretty decent DPS.

Warlocks were also a shadowbolt spam spec back then that was top DPS for them. It was sac your succubus, and spam shadowbolt. The end.

Removing the shared cd between Earth shock and Flame shock
would be a much needed QoL change.

Removing the cd on Flame shock itself would also help
with faster target switches or for faster reapplication
if we were to miss for any reason.
I've always felt the cd on that particular shock
was odd and unnecessary, considering the role it plays.

Looking at this from an elemental PoV
there really isn't a "choice" right now. More often than not
FS needs a refresh just as you get a 7 stack
Fulmination - choose to refresh FS and lose lightning shield charges;
choose to fulminate
and lose uptime on LvB as you wait
for Flame shock to come off cd. There really is no reward
for choosing one over the other. You simply just lose out.

Due to the mutual exclusivity of FS and ES,
and because both are essential to our dps, it's bad design
to leave them as is.

Removing that limitation would be leaps and bounds
better for the spec overrall without any change to the
rotation.


The hell is with this format? It's like you're writing a poem.

A choice between what exactly? Dps and dps?
If we were miles ahead of everyone else this would make sense.
That's just not the case. Choosing between cc and dps is a choice.
Having to choose between two core mechanics of your rotation is not.


The only thing Blizzard should be looking into is unlinking frost shock from flame/earth shock. Flame and earth shock being linked is perfectly fine, and an intended mechanic for having proper rotation. Especially as Elemental.
Edited by Varlth on 2/9/2013 5:23 PM PST
83 Pandaren Shaman
13415
02/09/2013 05:21 PMPosted by Varlth
The hell is with this format? It's like you're writing a poem.


Maybe I am? u.u

02/09/2013 05:21 PMPosted by Varlth
The only thing Blizzard should be looking into is unlinking frost shock from flame/earth shock. Flame and earth shock being linked is perfectly fine, and an intended mechanic for having proper rotation. Especially as Elemental.


Why is it perfectly fine for FS and ES to be linked? Would unlinking them be so catastrophic? I'm genuinely intrigued...

So if I gave you a spec that had one button, but you could pull 150k sustained single target would you have fun?Rogues were pretty boring in TBC. about 50-60% of their damage came from white attacks. Which basically meant that if you auto-attacked, and managed your combo points terribly you would still do pretty decent DPS.Warlocks were also a shadowbolt spam spec back then that was top DPS for them. It was sac your succubus, and spam shadowbolt. The end.


Also I don't think the OP wants one button that blows things up, so I'm not too sure what this rambling is about. Pretty sure he's wanting some more fluidity with the spec. It's pretty solid the way it is, but the shocks clashing doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. Read carefully.
90 Orc Shaman
10050
A choice between what exactly? Dps and dps?
If we were miles ahead of everyone else this would make sense.
That's just not the case. Choosing between cc and dps is a choice.
Having to choose between two core mechanics of your rotation is not.


So is it not a choice if I Lava Lash before I Stormstrike? What about if I put Unleash Elements at the bottom of my priority with Unleashed Fury? Hardcast Maelstrom x3 Lightning Bolt above everything else?

It is a choice. That's the point. The mechanics aren't 'set in stone' in the sense that you are forced to use your abilities in just one way every time you pick up your character and log in. Balancing the two (Hence, the 'choice' of when to use Flame Shock, and whether or not to Earth Shock) is part of both specs. I'm rather bewildered how that concept eludes you.
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
Why is it perfectly fine for FS and ES to be linked? Would unlinking them be so catastrophic? I'm genuinely intrigued...


Pretty sure I already said

02/09/2013 05:21 PMPosted by Varlth
Flame and earth shock being linked is perfectly fine, and an intended mechanic for having proper rotation. Especially as Elemental.


Removing the link removes choice. Removes decisions. Makes it easier to play. Makes it more forgiving, and it's really not an unforgiving spec in the first place. You want unforgiving I can point to you pre-mangle change feral druids, or WoTLK enhance. And it's not going to increase our DPS by that much. I would think it will a little bit by not wasting charges as often, but you're not looking at fixing the class with it.
Edited by Varlth on 2/9/2013 5:36 PM PST
83 Pandaren Shaman
13415
So is it not a choice if I Lava Lash before I Stormstrike? What about if I put Unleash Elements at the bottom of my priority with Unleashed Fury? Hardcast Maelstrom x3 Lightning Bolt above everything else?It is a choice. That's the point. The mechanics aren't 'set in stone' in the sense that you are forced to use your abilities in just one way every time you pick up your character and log in. Balancing the two (Hence, the 'choice' of when to use Flame Shock, and whether or not to Earth Shock) is part of both specs. I'm rather bewildered how that concept eludes you.


Calm down.

Lava Lash and Stormstrike do not share cds afaik. The other "choices" you are talking about
are playstyle choices. Has nothing to do with *mechanics*.

If I wanted to refresh Flame shock and use my Fulmination right after I cannot do that. I do not have that option. I can only do one or the other. These are two core mechanics in the elemental spec that shouldn't be clashing.

I fail to see how if Earth shock kept its cd, and Flame shock was unlinked from it, why that in any way would be bad for *any* spec.

"I'm rather bewildered how that concepts eludes you."
83 Pandaren Shaman
13415
02/09/2013 05:35 PMPosted by Varlth
Removing the link removes choice. Removes decisions. Makes it easier to play. Makes it more forgiving, and it's really not an unforgiving spec in the first place. You want unforgiving I can point to you pre-mangle change feral druids, or WoTLK enhance. And it's not going to increase our DPS by that much. I would think it will a little bit by not wasting charges as often, but you're not looking at fixing the class with it.


Lol You cannot be serious.

You realize we would already be doing what we're doing now. But with more Earth shocks thrown in... right? Nothing drastic would change. And these major decisions you think we have in your head, in reality, are simply Qol fixes for an annoying mechanic.

Will it fix the class? Who knows. But it would be a lot more fluid in every aspect.
87 Pandaren Shaman
1770
Wait, people actually like our rotation to be clunky and awful? I didn't realize Shaman were a bunch of masochists.
100 Draenei Shaman
9855
Ok so tell me this to all who disagree: I was pvping an I ran into an issue as enhancement....I had to choose between reapplying my dot, my s.nare or going for my ES buffed by SS for burst. Why do I have to choose? Most classes can apply all 3 with 1 gcd....we need 3.

Also, you said making both dps mindless. How? Only a dummy would randomly click shock spells. It would be a major DOS loss.

An example on what I mean is me speccing into frozen power. Most classes can dps after they snare or stun. As ele I shouldn't have to use frost shock then wait 6 swims to apply fs for lb. If so, what's the point in snaring them in thet place? They will be free before I have a chance to do anything. Then another frost shock and history repeats itself.
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
Lol You cannot be serious.

You realize we would already be doing what we're doing now. But with more Earth shocks thrown in... right? Nothing drastic would change. And these major decisions you think we have in your head, in reality, are simply Qol fixes for an annoying mechanic.


Nope. Blizzard has said they don't want to unlink it because managing flame shock and dumping charges appropriately is intended. It's not clunky. You just can't play the spec. There's a difference.

02/09/2013 05:58 PMPosted by Pilika
Wait, people actually like our rotation to be clunky and awful? I didn't realize Shaman were a bunch of masochists.


If you feel it's clunky (as far as PvE goes) then that's because you can't play it properly. I works pretty smoothly when playing properly.
90 Orc Shaman
10050
If I wanted to refresh Flame shock and use my Fulmination right after I cannot do that. I do not have that option.


That's why you're supposed to pay attention to the seconds left on Flame Shock before you Earth Shock. It's also why you Earth Shock at ~5 stacks minimum when coming close to the end of Flame Shock's duration, as at those stacks it's >= to that of a Lightning Bolt--meaning you don't waste stacks (A DPS increase). Hence, making it less boring and more interesting.

02/09/2013 05:47 PMPosted by Hekili
"I'm rather bewildered how that concepts eludes you."


Cute, considering I actually understand more about a spec than you that I barely even play.
Edited by Platform on 2/9/2013 6:15 PM PST
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