Exciting ret paladin changes in 5.2

90 Human Paladin
6850
To keep this brief, there's some exciting changes coming up for ret in 5.2, specifically:
- Hand of Sacrifice cleanses magic
- Seal of Justice's slow has been replaced with a stacking/consumable buff to TV

While losing the slow is a bitter pill, the return of non-CD burst is brilliant, so I say, why not kill two birds with one stone. Instead of replacing Justice's effects, why not create a new seal ("Seal of Command", rename the imposter that exists now) and accept that there's two PVP seals. There'll be switching required, which will raise the skill cap pf the class.

As for Hand of Sacrifice cleansing magic, why not let Salvation do it instead? If there is worries that this will make Clememcy mandatory, just remember that the other two talents are garbage, and clememcy is already mandatory.

What are your thoughts?
Sacrednemo
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
I think you gave New York like a foot of snow. >=)

Ret's looking great for arena next patch. It still won't be super desired for RBG's, but when a spec does well in arena then RBG groups are less likely to completely hate on it.

I don't think the dispel needs to be on Salvation. Sac will feel overloaded at times, but the buff seems primarily aimed at when a Ret is trained, his healer is CC'd, and Sac is useless. On top of that, putting the dispel on Salv would give Ret eight hand spells (counting Clemency) and that's a bit too much utility.

The FoL buff is sweet, too. I can't wait to not suck in double DPS 2's. The SoJ change is interesting, but let's wait to see how it actually feels. I think Ret can do without the baseline snare, but dismounting people in regular BG's without BoG will be annoying and playing with a caster in 3's without FoJ will kind of suck.

Overall, great patch for Ret. I just wish they did a better job with changes like the one to Light's Hammer. That right there is what I call wasted development resources.
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90 Human Paladin
9505
Wait, we lose our slowing seal? Well !@#$ me for PVP, it was so nice to use in combination with Long Arm of the Law, and particularly useful against casters.

Now to have a snare, I need to double the CD of my only stun? /sigh
Edited by Infuser on 2/9/2013 6:53 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
13010
I don't think the dispel needs to be on Salvation. Sac will feel overloaded at times, but the buff seems primarily aimed at when a Ret is trained, his healer is CC'd, and Sac is useless. On top of that, putting the dispel on Salv would give Ret eight hand spells (counting Clemency) and that's a bit too much utility.


we already use sac in pvp as a anti cc vs cc's that break on damage. i don't like the idea of having to waste it on dispelling when we have a hand that has no use in pvp at the moment and has a name that kinda fits with the effect they want to tak onto it. (salvation from magic anyone?)

Edit: also to note hand of sac can't be cast on the caster so its team utility only in its current form and can't be used to cleanse the paladin. if it goes to salvation we will have another personal/team defensive.

if bliz see's that as a problem then ill accept that but otherwise i don't see the point having it on sac instead of salvation
Edited by Fallenangell on 2/9/2013 10:34 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
02/09/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Fallenangell
if bliz see's that as a problem then ill accept that but otherwise i don't see the point having it on sac instead of salvation

As I said, I think the devs' intention is to make Sac useful when it's currently useless: when teams train Ret for most of the game.
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ya dont get too excited about these changes, paladins are still the weakest dps in the game. go to ptr and test for yourself. its quite silly what warlocks and mages can to do to us.
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90 Human Paladin
9290
02/09/2013 04:02 AMPosted by Sacrednemo
Seal of Justice's slow has been replaced with a stacking/consumable buff to TV


Is this really even a buff?

--First of all, you're losing sooo much sustainable damage from censure.
--Secondly, you now either have to deal with getting kited all day, or sacrificing basically your only good CC for a CC 3 times worse to get the judge snare(twice as long of a cooldown, and much shorter range).
--Thirdly, it no longer gives 16% additional Hand of Light damage from hits.
--4th, if we're more easily kited in addition to being easily CC'd like we already are, the stacks are going to fall off all the time.
--5th, I don't think judgment is proc'ing a stack or refreshing current stacks. Neither is exorcism, but they do refresh censure, making Seal of Truth even more desirable.

I don't know, I don't think this is even remotely close to being good...
Edited by Alenias on 2/12/2013 2:16 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3855
Seal of Justice's slow has been replaced with a stacking/consumable buff to TV


Is this really even a buff?

--First of all, you're losing sooo much sustainable damage from censure.
--Secondly, you now either have to deal with getting kited all day, or sacrificing basically your only good CC for a CC 3 times worse to get the judge snare(twice as long of a cooldown, and much shorter range).
--Thirdly, it no longer gives 16% additional Hand of Light damage from hits.
--4th, if we're more easily kited in addition to being easily CC'd like we already are, the stacks are going to fall off all the time.
--5th, I don't think judgment is proc'ing a stack or refreshing current stacks. Neither is exorcism, but they do refresh censure, making Seal of Truth even more desirable.

I don't know, I don't think this is even remotely close to being good...


This makes no sense, first of all your complaining about the changes to SoJ, when you said yourself you're using SoT. Furthermore if you read the mmo GC post, you would know that he got these changes from high mmr players, who never use SoJ anyways. He made the point further that with snares from other classes, rets dont need it that mch, and besides, plenty of high level players take BoG.

TLDR: These changes were made at the suggestion of high skill players, and do well to replace a dead seal.
Edited by Chrisea on 2/12/2013 5:31 AM PST
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90 Human Warrior
5785
I think you gave New York like a foot of snow. >=)

Ret's looking great for arena next patch. It still won't be super desired for RBG's, but when a spec does well in arena then RBG groups are less likely to completely hate on it.

I don't think the dispel needs to be on Salvation. Sac will feel overloaded at times, but the buff seems primarily aimed at when a Ret is trained, his healer is CC'd, and Sac is useless. On top of that, putting the dispel on Salv would give Ret eight hand spells (counting Clemency) and that's a bit too much utility.

The FoL buff is sweet, too. I can't wait to not suck in double DPS 2's. The SoJ change is interesting, but let's wait to see how it actually feels. I think Ret can do without the baseline snare, but dismounting people in regular BG's without BoG will be annoying and playing with a caster in 3's without FoJ will kind of suck.

Overall, great patch for Ret. I just wish they did a better job with changes like the one to Light's Hammer. That right there is what I call wasted development resources.


Dude, I love your transmog! I was thinking about making a belf pally but didn't know how the tier armor would look on a female, but now I'm def sold on the idea!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10680
I think you gave New York like a foot of snow. >=)

Ret's looking great for arena next patch. It still won't be super desired for RBG's, but when a spec does well in arena then RBG groups are less likely to completely hate on it.



LOL go to ptr and check it, rets still suck !@# in pvp, FoL heals you 13k more than on live its just a joke, still 0 defensive.

About seals. Check your top damage ability after 3-4 mins arena match. It will be censure.
By using justice seal you will lose a lot of damage. 125% wep damage to the target with 67% resil would be around 14k, your censure crit more than that lol

Rets still in the worst position they ever been after vanila.
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90 Draenei Paladin
6255
- Hand of Sacrifice cleanses magic
- Seal of Justice's slow has been replaced with a stacking/consumable buff to TV


Sigh, this is a joke...
I have not used HoS enough times to even bother keeping in on my action bar.
SoJ loss of slow is simply horrible, not sure who pulled that out of there !@#...
For a stacking/consumable buff to TV, that skill is annoying enough as is why make it any more so.

You'd think blizzard ran out of weed, and is punishing the paladins for it... 5.2 we get a nerf, and a who gives a ****.
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90 Human Paladin
6885
The change to SoJ pisses me off quite a bit. Once I get 5 stacks of censure, I switch to SoJ because the seal itself hits harder, and its a snare, and when censure is going to fall off I change back to SoT to refresh the dot...

Now I will take a damage loss. because there is no base damage for this !@#$ seal, and targets can more easily get away unless I grab BoG.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6710
Was the SoJ change reverted? I don't see it on the patch notes anymore (they were updated 2/13/13).
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They don't always update it until the stuff is roughly finalized. Usually.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10680
I think you gave New York like a foot of snow. >=)

Ret's looking great for arena next patch. It still won't be super desired for RBG's, but when a spec does well in arena then RBG groups are less likely to completely hate on it.



About seals. Check your top damage ability after 3-4 mins arena match. It will be censure.
By using justice seal you will lose a lot of damage. 125% wep damage to the target with 67% resil would be around 14k, your censure crit more than that lol



Taking it back. They finaly fixed this seal on ptr and it does very nice damage, 40-50k (with Inquisition up) and it crit up to 90k to dummy, so it will do about ~20% less to player cuz of res, so it will be around 30-40k its quit a lot :)
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90 Human Paladin
17495
I think they are still tuning SOJ quite a bit and it has been very buggy on the PTR as of late with the stacks not being consumed and the like.

- Hand of Sacrifice cleanses magic
- Seal of Justice's slow has been replaced with a stacking/consumable buff to TV


Sigh, this is a joke...
I have not used HoS enough times to even bother keeping in on my action bar.
SoJ loss of slow is simply horrible, not sure who pulled that out of there !@#...
For a stacking/consumable buff to TV, that skill is annoying enough as is why make it any more so.

You'd think blizzard ran out of weed, and is punishing the paladins for it... 5.2 we get a nerf, and a who gives a ****.


If you dont use HoS in pvp you just dont know how to get the most out of your toon that is all that can be said.

The loss of the snare on SoJ is being overblown by a lot of people as it was not a very good seal since the damage was so low to begin with. In order to use the seal you would lose a gcd in turning it on and another gcd switching back to truth with LAotL you should be able to catch up to people in a reasonable amount of time without a snare and that isnt counting the many classes that you can team up with that will snare anyway for you.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19970
02/09/2013 04:02 AMPosted by Sacrednemo
there's some exciting changes coming up for ret in 5.2
I've played ret for more than half a decade. It's going to take more than a bandaid seal on the feast/famine design and a cleanse, which I used to always have access to until Cata, to get me 'excited'.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9495
SoJ is useless.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1263795-Tonight-s-PTR-buid-%282-13%29-and-SoJ
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6170
bad dps and damage? imma have to disagree. i do 75-90k dps in raids after the patch. i am good with ret. and have pretty good gear. im always in the top 5 of damage done and usually right up there with overall dps. im usually at spot 2,3,4. rarely 5
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