The best/easiest tank for you!!

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90 Pandaren Monk
15630
In order to try to stop people from making a new thread about this every single day, we might as well answear the god damn question.

------------------------------ WHO IS THE BEST TANK? ------------------------------

There isn't a best tank. Period.

All tanks are performing relatively the same and since the class performance is directly related to player skill, it's really impossible to tell which tank is the best.

Even if there IS a mathematical better tank, the difference is extremelly subjective because tanks have a very broad range of expertises. The best tank for heroic Sha, is not the best tank all around, since he can be inferior in several other fights. He just happens to be slightly better on the last fight of this tier.

Think of the following question: Which dps class is the best?
You would reply: It depends.

It's the EXACT same thing with tanks: It depends on the fight. All tanks can tank ANY given fight on lfr, normal, heroic raids with success and relatively equal performance.

What do happen is that some tanks excel are better to handle aoe, some other tanks are better to handle magic dmg .. some can handle burst dmg .. etc etc.

So just to be really adamant:

Which tank class is the best?
None, they are all balanced.

------------------------------ WHO IS THE EASIEST TANK? ------------------------------

This is a question that can actually be answeared. It's hard to say easiest and hardest because again, some players might fight class A easier and class B harder, and others can feel the oposite.

But what we can say is which class is the less complex (and have more room for mistakes), and which one is the more complex (and have less room for mistakes).

Monks > paladins = warriors > druids > DKs

Again this is NOT a measure of how good each tank is, simply how complex they are.

Monks are currently the most complex tank class because they have half a dozen mechanics you have to keep track of, and there's a very big gap in terms of performance from the random bob playing a monk tank, compared to the really experienced ones. And we have less room for mistakes.

Paladins and warriors are slightly more forgiving than monks because while they do have a more "interesting" rotation right now to maximize their active mitigation, if they fail, their "passive" defense is higher than monks.

Druids don't have a lot of mechanics to keep track, and while you can make mistakes, they are still very solid tanks when not played extremelly well.

DKs are the current "derp" tanks of the expansion. They used to be more complex and less forgiving about mistakes, but current on MoP there's really no way to screw yourself. You have to REALLY try to have a bad performance and intentionally use the wrong skills to fail. It's not saying that DKs are bad tanks or players who play them are bad .. it's simply that currently, their complexity was dumbed down A LOT, making them the easiest tank to control.

------------------------------ HOW DOES EACH TANK WORK? ------------------------------

I can safely describe monk tanks, and while I did play every other tank (and have 2 others at max lvl), I don't play them enough to know the ins and outs of the class, so I would rather have players with more "tank-hours" than me in the other classes giving a brief explanation on them so I can link in this post.

Monks: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7884178458?page=1#2
Paladins: TBA
Warriors: TBA
Druids: TBA
Death Knights: TBA

Now, for the love of god, can we have this stickied?
Edited by Leeflow on 2/9/2013 9:13 AM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
15630
Monks

Monks are the newest tank to join the club, so naturally there's not a lot of people out there playing them (since they didn't start in godmode like DKs on wotlk).

The pros:

- extremelly mobile tanks. Along with warriors, monks are the tanks with the highest mobility in the game. They can close gaps, more around the battlefield very fast, have permanent slows to kite things, 2 stuns. They can really be flipping ninjas in that matter.

- Very high avoidance based. Monks passive avoidance (dodge/parry) are around ~45% which is in line with other tanks, but we have a short buff (Elusive Brew) that boosts that number to 75-80% for a few seconds. This is extremelly good to handle high dmg mechanics, allowing monks to greatly lower the dmg taken during burst dmg mechanics, or even while tanking aoe. Controlling this buff well makes a LOT of difference in how much dmg you take.

- A nice number of short cooldowns: Elusive brew is charge based with a minimal cooldown, Guard only have 30s and can be used with all kind of dmging mechanic, Dampen Harm/ Diffuse magic are on 1m30s cooldowns ... plus the regular "shield wall" on 3 minute and a different 3 minute cooldown (Zen meditation) that can be used with some speicific boss mechanics.

- A very solid (and unique) defensive system that allows us to take a very controlled dmg, if used properly.

The cons:

- skill requirement. Since we have so many powerfull mechanics, we are balanced around using them well. The drawback is that if you manage them poorly, you'll take more dmg than all the other tanks.

- less room for mistakes. Other tanks have a "use it often" active mitigation, while we have a "use it ALL time" version. In order to use it all time, you have to manage your resources well, watch buff timers etc .. so you really need to micromanage buffs, keep track of procs etc etc.

If you don't like this micro-management .. it's not a tank class for you.

- Steady dmg and Burst dmg are 2 sides of the same coin. Like I said that our defensive system, if used well can make as us really reliable tanks ... if used poorly we turn into a really squishy tank that takes a lot of spike dmg.

If you think monk is the tank class for you, this guide will help you venture out there, understand the specific class mechanics, stat priorities, gearing, etc etc.

Monk Brewmaster Guide: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7591979125
Edited by Leeflow on 2/9/2013 9:14 AM PST
90 Tauren Death Knight
0
Is this based on your vast experience with each of the tank classes in environments where they are tested, or is this based off xtankzorzx tanking some heroic dungeons?
90 Pandaren Monk
15630
There's something you disagree with? Share with the class.

you can always share your vast experience with other players so they better know how DK tanks work.
Edited by Leeflow on 2/9/2013 9:39 AM PST
90 Tauren Death Knight
0
I'm just curious how you're coming to these conclusions if you've only tanked heroic modes during this expansion on your monk in low damage intake situations. You can't request this information be posted at the top of the forum for all to see if it's just your subjective opinions based off of nothing.

Perhaps if you were forced to learn and test each class in intense situations you'd have a different opinion and because of that, this information is hardly an objective view of class mechanics.
90 Tauren Death Knight
0
^^^ This guy nailed it ^^^
90 Pandaren Monk
15630
The point you are missing is that you don't have to actually play each class to know how they are performing. World of logs is there.

It's not my subjective opinion based on nothing.

When I check how monks are faring on a fight, i'm also comparing them with the other tank classes of the same fight ... you do that on pretty much every fight, and you get a very good sample. And trust me, I do that for 25 mans as well. I simply don't like to pull information out of my !@# .. so I do my research.

The other point you are missing is that players from blood legion, paragon or high-end progression guilds won't come here to ask about tank information. It's the players without tank experience that come.

Or do you honestly think that a high-end progression guild will take a random raid member and say "you go there to the tank boards and learn about tanks to re-roll one for heroic sha next week"

It's a matter of knowing your audience. As someone who post on this board very often, I know exactly what kind of players come here with questions. Do you think unexperienced players are here asking questions about each tank because they need to tank heroic empress next week? No, they ask here because they tank 5 mans .. lfr, normal modes .. and might even tank some heroic modes.

It's pointless to argue about minor differences that tanks have on the very last part of the end game content, when people asking questions won't even do the fight in that difficulty.
So yes, for the content that 90% of the players will see, what I said is very accurate.

You can either share how DK tanks work if you know how to explain or you can try to discuss this .. your call.

Ps. I won't comment on the "low damage intake situations" because It's not the point of the thread .. =)
90 Pandaren Monk
15630
I think tank complexity also really comes down to the player.

A Death Knight for example, which you have rated as the easiest tank. To master Rune Gaming and maximize rune restoration is not something that I would consider easy. While simply spamming Rune Strike might give you a certain level of performance, it by no means meets the mark it does when played properly.


the current "rune gaming" is not even remotely close to what it was early on cata. Honestly, It shouldn't even be called that anymore. Back then you could actually force the "rng" to give you proper runes.

On cata there was a night and day difference. You could go from ~7 ds/min by playing like a monkey to up to 11ds/min (If I recall correctly the best possible was close to 12ds/min). The difference was absurd.

now there's a minor gain. You have to actually use the wrong skills to lower your DS/min. But then again that's something that happens with everything in wow .. you use the wrong skills, you harm your performance.

But when even using the RIGHT ones you can make a mistake based on when you used, that's another story.

As I said, difficulty is subjective, but complexity isn't. I'm measuring complexity as things you have to keep track of, and possibilities of screwing up. DKs have to go out of their regular rotation and use wrong skills to perform poorly. If they at least use the correct rotation, even without proper timing, that's enough.

Is it enough on heroic empress or sha? obviously not .. but again, do you honestly think people that ask which tank is the best, will even see those bosses on heroic?
Edited by Leeflow on 2/9/2013 11:05 AM PST
90 Tauren Death Knight
0
I'm not arguing whether or not you understand tank balance or what your audience here is. I'm arguing that you're telling players which classes are harder and which are easier when in actuality you have not played them all and are going off the the opinions of others.

What it boils down to: You're telling people classes are easy/hard without having played them yourself.

I'm simply trying to explain why this should not be stickied.
Edited by Peekochu on 2/9/2013 12:18 PM PST
I'm not arguing whether or not you understand tank balance or what your audience here is. I'm arguing that you're telling players which classes are harder and which are easier when in actuality you have not played them all and are going off the the opinions of others.

What it boils down to: You're telling people classes are easy/hard without having played them yourself.

I'm simply trying explain why this should not be stickied.


I agree.

Sure, the monk system is complex, but its complexity flows into itself, so making the right call is intuitive, it makes sense, unlike the Cata DK system where it was actually counter-intuitive, and you were punished for doing what would seem the obvious thing to do.

The Wrath paladin rotation can be written out to sound complex, and believe me, plenty of folks here tried to do it, explaining how it was a priority system and paragraphs upon paragraphs that in practice came down to 96969696....
90 Tauren Death Knight
0
02/09/2013 12:14 PMPosted by Zapwidget
The Wrath paladin rotation can be written out to sound complex, and believe me, plenty of folks here tried to do it, explaining how it was a priority system and paragraphs upon paragraphs that in practice came down to 96969696....


#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=9 Holy Shield, Judgement of Light, Consecration

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=6 Hammer of the Righteous, Shield of Righteousness

Still have mine saved ;D
Edited by Peekochu on 2/9/2013 12:20 PM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
8835
now there's a minor gain. You have to actually use the wrong skills to lower your DS/min. But then again that's something that happens with everything in wow .. you use the wrong skills, you harm your performance.

If you're still using DS/min as your metric for measuring a DK then I think we've found a flaw with your judgment.
90 Human Death Knight
8985
I'm just curious how you're coming to these conclusions if you've only tanked heroic modes during this expansion on your monk in low damage intake situations. You can't request this information be posted at the top of the forum for all to see if it's just your subjective opinions based off of nothing.

Perhaps if you were forced to learn and test each class in intense situations you'd have a different opinion and because of that, this information is hardly an objective view of class mechanics.
If you think any of the other "which is the best tank" threads having more useful information, with testimony from elite tanks in illustrative situations, then PLEASE, copy/paste those responses when relevant threads spawn. Or here, in an attempt to slow the spawn of such repeated threads.
Edited by Guidance on 2/9/2013 1:03 PM PST
02/09/2013 01:03 PMPosted by Guidance
If you think any of the other "which is the best tank" threads having more useful information, with testimony from elite tanks in illustrative situations, then PLEASE, copy/paste those responses when relevant threads spawn. Or here, in an attempt to slow the spawn of such repeated threads.


Repetitive threads engendering discussion, while overtly annoying, are far more preferable than a post purporting to be fact claiming that this is the way it is. The purpose of this board is to "gather and confer on the craft of tanking," explicitly denoting an exchange of ideas, a discussion. Some things are bound to be fact, and those facts should be stickied, as there is no point to ceaselessly repeating how combat tables work or what is expected of your role.

Which tank spec is the easiest to play, which is the statement in the title and subtitle of the original post, is not fact, and will never be fact. You cannot quantify which tank is easiest for me to play any more than I can declare which one is easiest for you. I can tell you which one I find easiest, and why, and somebody else can come along and use those exact same reasons as for the reason why they find my choice more difficult. It's entirely subjective.
Edited by Zapwidget on 2/9/2013 1:15 PM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
10280
The thing is, it is the same as any part of this game:

What is the best <tank/dps/heal> class in the game?

The one you enjoy playing.

Simple as that.
90 Pandaren Monk
15630

I agree.

Sure, the monk system is complex, but its complexity flows into itself, so making the right call is intuitive, it makes sense, unlike the Cata DK system where it was actually counter-intuitive, and you were punished for doing what would seem the obvious thing to do.

The Wrath paladin rotation can be written out to sound complex, and believe me, plenty of folks here tried to do it, explaining how it was a priority system and paragraphs upon paragraphs that in practice came down to 96969696....


making the right call for monks is not intuitive .. or else we wouldn't have so many problems with monks feeling "squishy".

If you actually knew something about the class, you wouldn't say "unlike DKs on cata" when they have the EXACT same issue.

fresh monk tanks make the same mistake fresh cata dks did: replacing extremelly important skills with crap skills because they felt right. 9/10 monks that complain about squishness are failing on the shuffle department, and the only way you can fail at it, is by using another skills instead.

Just like DKs were punished for not using DS, monks are punished by not using BoK. Monks are all about resource management, buff uptime and using short cds ... does any of those ring a bell? Yeah .. just like DKs were (the cooldowns were just slightly longer on dks, but shorter compared to other tanks at that time).

Saying paladin rotation can be written to sound complex? really? from wotlk beta forums it was established that it was 69696 sequence. You simply can't make it sound complex, when you are talking about a rotation that had zero procs, zero changes, zero variations or external factors, that was 100% based on a cast sequence.

Repetitive threads engendering discussion, while overtly annoying, are far more preferable than a post purporting to be fact claiming that this is the way it is. The purpose of this board is to "gather and confer on the craft of tanking," explicitly denoting an exchange of ideas, a discussion. Some things are bound to be fact, and those facts should be stickied, as there is no point to ceaselessly repeating how combat tables work or what is expected of your role.

Which tank spec is the easiest to play, which is the statement in the title and subtitle of the original post, is not fact, and will never be fact. You cannot quantify which tank is easiest for me to play any more than I can declare which one is easiest for you. I can tell you which one I find easiest, and why, and somebody else can come along and use those exact same reasons as for the reason why they find my choice more difficult. It's entirely subjective.


You do realise that we usually have one of those "best tanks" thread per day. Go there .. read them.

I dare you find usefull information.

because everyone is sick of those threads being asked everyday when there's no clear answear. The idea of this one is to provide a description of each class. The problem is that DKs are butthurt that I said their class is easy .. well it is .. sorry, cry me a river, but DKs are mindnumb easy.

It took me overwhelming 10 minutes to catch up with DK changes when I logged on mop beta with mine.

02/09/2013 12:37 PMPosted by Zionic
now there's a minor gain. You have to actually use the wrong skills to lower your DS/min. But then again that's something that happens with everything in wow .. you use the wrong skills, you harm your performance.

If you're still using DS/min as your metric for measuring a DK then I think we've found a flaw with your judgment.


if you had actually tanked as a DK back on cata you'd understand why it was a metric. If you increase your DS to 10-11/minute, timing DS is irrelevant, since you are Deathstriking back to back on the 5 seconds rule.

or are you not familiar that there are 2 ways of handling DS usage?

but honestly ? at this point I think the idea of the thread wont work .. people rather defend how super complex their own class is ..
02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Leeflow
If you actually knew something about the class, you wouldn't say "unlike DKs on cata" when they have the EXACT same issue.


Really? That's a bit of a stretch, and directly demonstrating the entire point of the counterargument.

02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Leeflow
Just like DKs were punished for not using DS


DKs were not punished for "not using DS." They were punished for spending a blood rune on a Heart Strike/BB when it was the only button available to push. Deciding between [push this button or do nothing until another becomes available] is not even comparable to a monk's [push this button or that button, whichever you think is better]. "Failing at shuffle" is a simple case of not watching your buffs/debuffs. As applying your buff/purging your debuff is a core part of your move set, failing to do so is more a result of not knowing you need to than of not knowing how.

You do realise that we usually have one of those "best tanks" thread per day. Go there .. read them.

I dare you find usefull information.


I would wager I'd find more useful information in the discussion that followed them than anyone would find in the second half of your original post. To be sure, your OP is little more than a more eloquently worded variation on the same theme, tainted with the arrogance of claiming itself to be fact.

02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Leeflow
if you had actually tanked as a DK back on cata you'd understand why it was a metric.


Key word, "was." Not "is." You are using the metric of DS/min for comparing the current DK model in the part he quoted, and that is an abject declaration of unfamiliarity with the current model.

02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Leeflow
but honestly ? at this point I think the idea of the thread wont work .. people rather defend how super complex their own class is ..


Oddly enough, that's exactly the vibe an unbiased reader picks up from your post. What's that they say about a pot and a kettle?
Edited by Zapwidget on 2/9/2013 2:15 PM PST
90 Night Elf Death Knight
7165
02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Leeflow
if you had actually tanked as a DK back on cata you'd understand why it was a metric. If you increase your DS to 10-11/minute, timing DS is irrelevant, since you are Deathstriking back to back on the 5 seconds rule.


I actually tanked as a DK during Cata, and while DS/min is important, back to back DSing every 5 seconds is and was not ever ideal. Sitting on a set of DS runes when you don't need them while your other pair recharges was always better than just shotgunning them.
90 Pandaren Monk
6860
02/09/2013 02:43 PMPosted by Zutti
if you had actually tanked as a DK back on cata you'd understand why it was a metric. If you increase your DS to 10-11/minute, timing DS is irrelevant, since you are Deathstriking back to back on the 5 seconds rule.


I actually tanked as a DK during Cata, and while DS/min is important, back to back DSing every 5 seconds is and was not ever ideal. Sitting on a set of DS runes when you don't need them while your other pair recharges was always better than just shotgunning them.

Before my guild stopped raiding in Cata, I was heroic tanking as blood. We had only just downed Morchok, but it was at that point I understood the importance of withholding DS for the sake of the mastery bonus. I completely agree.

However, that's mostly for heroic content only.

The intention of this guide is to give players who want to start their own tank and need someplace to start. Often, the question is asked: which is the best? The answer is simply none, and Lee gives more than enough reasons as to why each has their forte.

As well, while I did main tank back in Cata, during the end, when I wasn't running heroic content, yes, it was stupid easy. And very little has changed as I work to bring up my DK. Diseases, Blood Boil, D&D, Death Strike, and boom, all the threat ever, with ample amounts of mitigation. However, this applies to DUNGEONS. This isn't applied to normal raid content, or even LFR content. Hell, it doesn't even imply the same for heroic dungeon content.

DKs have a low skill floor that makes it easy to get into. This is because they start off at level 55 where all other tanks have those 55 levels to learn the class. By making a class simple to learn, they get rid of the problem of having so many bad tanks in mid-level content. There really isn't any big changes to blood tanking until Mastery and the T75 talents come into play. This isn't meant as a jab at the spec as a whole; this was an intentional design choice to avoid the issue of new players skipping an entire expansion of learning your spec.
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