The best/easiest tank for you!!

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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
deathstrikes per minute isn't THEE metric, but dks who pull off abysmal DS counts are pretty awful.

You also should practice getting a 100% blood shield between taunt swaps for fights like Gara'jal, Will (between dances) Empress, and Sha.

DKs are the easiest tank to just pickup and be mediocre at, obviously, if you want to be much better at it, it does take some skill and practice, but for someone looking at a guide like this, blindly spamming DS will get them through normal raids, at which point if they're enjoying the DK playstyle, they should either practice, look up or talk to a skilled DK tank in order to maximize your ability.
Edited by Postonforums on 2/9/2013 3:46 PM PST
90 Tauren Death Knight
0
This became a &$%#storm pretty quickly now didn't it? That was not my intention, lol. Anyway Eflow I suggest if you'd like to try this again that it serve the purpose of introducing each tank class in without maxing the word count in a post (much like your monk post).

Also it would be good if you contacted the players for each class beforehand and have them all post at once. Would be nice.
Edited by Peekochu on 2/9/2013 4:12 PM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
10280
And avoiding vitriolic words like 'god damn' and what not in your post will help as well :)
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
I'm working on a guide as well, Leeflow - it's just taking a little longer.
100 Worgen Druid
11530
No good deed goes unpunished Leeflow.
90 Pandaren Monk
15630
Oh rest assured, I found this fun as hell ..

being lectured about how DKs worked ... There's some crown jewels here. Some people here just joined the bandwagon and talked about things they don't even know how it worked lol.

And i'm not going to bother trying to make a guide or anything for other classes. Much rather fix the bad monks out there.

maybe at some point they come lecture me about how monks work =D
90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Leeflow, I noticed you don't use Breath of Fire and Crackling Jade Lightning enough. How do you expect to pull and get great damage?
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350

DKs are the easiest tank to just pickup and be mediocre at, obviously, if you want to be much better at it, it does take some skill and practice, but for someone looking at a guide like this, blindly spamming DS will get them through normal raids, at which point if they're enjoying the DK playstyle, they should either practice, look up or talk to a skilled DK tank in order to maximize your ability.


This.

It's not DS/min that matters. It's the heals per ds, particularly during bursts of heavy damage.

I would have to argue that dk's perhaps have the least or 2nd least room amount for error. If you've got no ability to DS and are taking heavy burst - you are in trouble.

Dks have weak passive mitigation. In such a situation, the dk will be forced to use a cd or get an external. EH will play a role too in deciding between tank death and survivability - and dks do not have the highest EH.
Edited by Attackknight on 2/10/2013 5:56 AM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
02/09/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Chuin
And avoiding vitriolic words like 'god damn' and what not in your post will help as well :)


Agreed.

The OP in the meantime has already indicated that they will not be writing anything else constructive for other classes and feels hurt that he/she is being "lectured".
90 Human Monk
17840
I knew that remark about DKs would be a favorite.
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
02/10/2013 06:15 AMPosted by Litchi
I knew that remark about DKs would be a favorite.


It isn't that - it's that the op has not offered a good counterargument to Postonforum's statements (and I have my reservations that he/she will to mine).

Relatively speaking, yes the tanks are overall, closer balanced than pretty much any other tier in recent memory. But every tank right now has relative strengths and weak points. What I take issue with as mentioned is that the OP feels that they are beneath being "lectured" and has failed so far to provide supporting evidence for their statement.
90 Pandaren Monk
15630
And avoiding vitriolic words like 'god damn' and what not in your post will help as well :)


Agreed.

The OP in the meantime has already indicated that they will not be writing anything else constructive for other classes and feels hurt that he/she is being "lectured".


hurt wouldn't be the correct word ... amused would be more apropriate .. lol

I really wont argue with people that have less than half of tank-time I had with my DK. People are lecturing me about things that argued on the forums and later were mathematically proved to be truth (even by people that didn't like me) .. and the fun part is that I was tanking heroic bosses and making it work, and they didn't even see the content with their DKs when it was relevant (armory is a pretty tool), but somehow, they know better =D

So yeah, I found it really amusing
Edited by Leeflow on 2/10/2013 7:31 AM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
I will emphasize again, you have not provided any supporting evidence for any of your claims. Yes I am a newer player. I started playing near the end of January 2012. This tune turned 85 in May of 2012. However, none of that automatically makes the points I've stated invalid and yours valid. You have not come up with an intelligent reply to my response - instead you have chosen to attack my person because I have not been playing as long as you have.

At this point, I'd recommend that this thread be deleted. Nothing productive is likely to come out of it. Among the different subforums, I'd say that the tank forums have perhaps the best useful post to not-so useful post ratio of the official WoW forums. I'd like to keep it that way.

I will admit my conduct here has been far from exemplary, but the OP here has displayed considerable arrogance and is not likely to be a person that helps new players, particularly when he/she has already looked down upon this one merely for being "new".
Edited by Attackknight on 2/10/2013 9:30 AM PST
100 Worgen Druid
11530
I will admit my conduct here has been far from exemplary, but the OP here has displayed considerable arrogance and is not likely to be a person that helps new players, particularly when he/she has already looked down upon this one merely for being "new" despite providing a counterpoint.


You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a fairly new player (just hit my first anniversary on WoW) and when I started tanking it was her guide to heroic Cata dungeons (posted under her Eflow toon http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/nemesis/Eflow/simple ) that helped carry me through my first shaky attempts. She started this thread as an attempt to provide some guidance to people new to tanking who are wondering which tank to choose and to prevent the annoyance of regulars at seeing a new "what is the best tank" thread (which had been getting some pretty snarky replies). Not really the behavior of someone who doesn't help new players - and that's not even mentioning her guide to brewmaster tanking.
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
Then you've been playing roughly as long as I have.

I am not denying that this player has invested considerable time in producing the guide here and the brewmaster guide (which I am aware that they have created).

However, when a player provides a potentially valid counterpoint to their statements, if a player professes to have superior knowledge and superior experience, then at the very least, they should provide a reason why they believe that they are correct and I am not.
90 Pandaren Monk
15630
I will emphasize again, you have not provided any supporting evidence for any of your claims. Yes I am a newer player. I started playing near the end of January 2012. This tune turned 85 in May of 2012. However, none of that automatically makes the points I've stated invalid and yours valid. You have not come up with an intelligent reply to my response - instead you have chosen to attack my person because I have not been playing as long as you have.

At this point, I'd recommend that this thread be deleted. Nothing productive is likely to come out of it. Among the different subforums, I'd say that the tank forums have perhaps the best useful post to not-so useful post ratio of the official WoW forums. I'd like to keep it that way.

I will admit my conduct here has been far from exemplary, but the OP here has displayed considerable arrogance and is not likely to be a person that helps new players, particularly when he/she has already looked down upon this one merely for being "new".


... I didn't even say I was talking about you ..

several people posted in this thread .. I simply quoted your post because you said I was "hurt" and merely replied to that.

but rest assured I wasn't even talking about you in the 1st place =p

and being a regular poster on this forum since BC, trust me .. I have a veeeeeeeeeeery hard skin and really don't get offended that easy.

but since you asked, here is the answear.

one day on wotlk beta, a dk was brought back to life by the Lich King, her name was Eflow, and since she was previously a paladin tank on vanilla/burning crusade, she decided to be a DK tank. She learned how to do it, had super fun experiences and around ulduar, she got into a progression guild that was clearing heroic content, high lvl stuff. By the end of ICC she was the MT of said guild, and after some time, logged on cata alpha to test the super new Blood spec.

Prior to cataclysm, all dk specs could tank and dps ... which didn't work quite well and blood was the most common by the end of ToC and ICC so they decided that blood was going to be the tank spec and frost/unholy the dps ones.

So I went on a personal crusade to make blood a very good tank spec. At that time Me, Lich, commie, dos and some other started a very big tank thread (the fabled sunflower thread) and discussed a lot. Keep in mind that I was the arch-enemy of lich and commie because they were more focused on theorycraft and I was more focused on actual play. We fought so much that we ended up teaming up (I know, it's weird) .. and we noticed that the concepts I came up ingame, were actually proved by their theorycraft, so we joined forces.

Early on cata we discussed that DKs would have a scalling problem at some point, which was ignored. On firelands we saw that and they had to band-aid fix during that time, and eventually gheto-fix on dragon soul.

At some point on cata, while discussing with others, we came up with the theory of shotgunning DS. Dos proved that it was mathematically possible, I tested, proved with logs that it was VERY possible (and good for that matter). Because during that time, a lot of people argued that DKs were hard to play, that you had to constantly time DS usage and blablabla, and I counter argumented that it was easy and "timing DS" was not the big deal people were painting off. The DS shotgun theory worked .. and fun things ensued.

The idea behind shotgunning DS is that if you raise your Deathstrike usage to close to 10-11 DS/minute it means you are using Deathstrike every 5-6 seconds. Which coincidentally, is the sample of time deathstrike uses to calculate it's healing. You get a 90-100% sample coverage, at that point .. timing DS is irrelevant.

lets say you DS at 0,0s .. 6s .. 12s .. 18s

your DS at 6 sec will sample the dmg taken from 1-6 seconds
your DS at 12 sec will sample the dmg taken from 7-12seconds
your DS at 18 sec will sample the dmg taken from 13-18seconds

you are pretty much covering all the dmg you take, at which point, timing is irrelevant.

Funny thing is that before I stopped playing as DK, I discussed with several others the impact of DS healing increase compared to shotgunning DS.

I honestly don't remember the veredict but I believe Krinu was in that discussiong, so he'll prolly have a more interesting reply in his guide.

but like I said, no hard feelings.
Edited by Leeflow on 2/10/2013 6:27 PM PST
100 Tauren Paladin
8390
Edit: Where were all these other posts earlier? Heh. Anyway I was replying to Attackknight here.

Or, you could stop derailing this thread, which is tailored for ignorant newbies, with this talk of DK nuances that only matter for high-end tanking.

As anathema as it may sound to most tanks here (including myself), some people don't want to know the ins and outs of their class. They just want to know the OP class or the class with least complexity so they can get by in whatever content they're doing.

Yes, there's more to DK tanking than /castrandom Death Strike, Rune Strike, Heart Strike, but someone asking "what is the best/easiest/most OP tank" is not going to care about timing DS, optimizing RS returns and whatever else heroic mode blood tanks are supposed to be doing. And that's fine, because not every thread needs to be about the advanced stuff. There exist people who don't love tanking or don't love their class, so there is value in threads like these that try to answer their question, "What class can I quickly be decent at?"

And really, what is wrong with DKs being easy to get into but hard to do right? If you want to speak up for the class, why not write a description like the OP invited instead of filling a beginner's thread with TMI DK mechanics?
Edited by Choz on 2/11/2013 12:33 AM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
19110
Hai guys!

Paladins are the best, and most difficult to play. That is all.

P.S. There are plenty of monk tanks out there who have no idea what's going on, and haven't figured out how to shuffle.
90 Pandaren Monk
15630
huh .... I think someone finally understood the point of this thread ...

o.O
72 Human Paladin
3255
The best easiest tank for me is the paladin. Why? I simply put myself in my characters postition and say
" How would i go about protecting my real life friends and loved ones in real life If i had such abilites?" LOL geeking out I know, but i guess that is why I know I play my paladin so well.
Edited by Valeric on 2/10/2013 7:34 PM PST
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