So Shadow healing is too strong yet Ret

76 Human Hunter
4835
putting out 200k+ heals on the PTR is ok?
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90 Draenei Shaman
7130
lol even with battle fatigue back you can crit 170k flash of lights. It's ridiculously over-the-top.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6480
Seems fine to me.

Spreists have pw:s, pom, and renew as instant heals/absorbs that cost them nothing but a gcd. On top of that, you can spam fh all day as long as you have the breathing room.

Fol is a cast from a melee class. Sure sh can makes it instant cast, but that only every 15ish secs. Without sh ret can get off 2 fols without going oom. Only other instant heal is wog. But it costs hopo so using it murders ret dps.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7130
Seems fine to me.

Spreists have pw:s, pom, and renew as instant heals/absorbs that cost them nothing but a gcd. On top of that, you can spam fh all day as long as you have the breathing room.

Fol is a cast from a melee class. Sure sh can makes it instant cast, but that only every 15ish secs. Without sh ret can get off 2 fols without going oom. Only other instant heal is wog. But it costs hopo so using it murders ret dps.


Actually even if you spend every single unit of holy power on WoG and use enough to keep Inquisition up you lose maybe 25-35% of your DPS. If you're spamming FH all day (assuming you've got a lot of VT's up) then you're losing a massive amount of offensive pressure. You're also fighting a terrible team that can't cross CC to save their lives, which means they're probably 1500 at best.

A 150k heal is not ok, not from any spec. It's literally more offensive than any other hybrid on the ptr as far as healing goes, especially considering it's instant and rather hard to prevent, since interrupts are pretty much useless on that front.
Edited by Annabél on 2/9/2013 10:54 AM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
7130
02/09/2013 11:04 AMPosted by Mvp
lol even with battle fatigue back you can crit 170k flash of lights. It's ridiculously over-the-top.
140k. Learn math.

Secondly, Ret was always meant to have massive heals. We have hilariously tiny mana pools, so we can't just spam Flash of Light. Spriests can spam Flash Heal though. Having high heals is a part of Ret's fundamental base support and defense system. It makes up for our hilarious lack of damage outside of CDs, compared to other classes. Divine Purpose procs are the only way we can get an "okay" damage outside of CDs, but getting DP nerfs our burst dramatically.


250x0.7 = 170

Learn maths.

How does having strong heals make up for lack of damage outside of cooldowns? Explain that to me, given the two mechanics do not balance each other out as the operate on different principles - increasing health pools, or decreasing them.
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90 Human Paladin
6815
Also, it's not hard to prevent instant Flash of Lights. It is actually hilariously easy. It takes about 6 seconds for a Ret to get a single stack of Selfless Healer, and overall it takes about 18 seconds to get 3. Just Purge it off the Ret. Profit.
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90 Undead Monk
16235
lol even with battle fatigue back you can crit 170k flash of lights. It's ridiculously over-the-top.
140k. Learn math.

Secondly, Ret was always meant to have massive heals. We have hilariously tiny mana pools, so we can't just spam Flash of Light. Spriests can spam Flash Heal though. Having high heals is a part of Ret's fundamental base support and defense system. It makes up for our hilarious lack of damage outside of CDs, compared to other classes. Divine Purpose procs are the only way we can get an "okay" damage outside of CDs, but getting DP nerfs our burst dramatically.


Okay, where was that ever said?

Ret functioned for a long time as a class with several utilities, but was never a spec meant to have "massive heals."

When giant healing came into play, we were cursed with an overabundance of triple DPS.

Utility doesn't have to include imbalanced hybrid healing.

I played with a ret in BC and Wrath. Defensive dispels from ret used to be terrific. Not the healing power that was given after. Things like sac and freedom - those are ret strengths and proper support options. Not big massive heals. That's imbalanced.

Believing that a class should do incredible burst while having lackluster sustained damage shouldn't be the goal for any spec in this game. And if your class is working that way or you assume your sustained is too low, that needs to be fixed. You don't need giant big heals to "compensate."
Edited by Capricka on 2/9/2013 11:12 AM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
7130
02/09/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Mvp
Also, it's not hard to prevent instant Flash of Lights. It is actually hilariously easy. It takes about 6 seconds for a Ret to get a single stack of Selfless Healer, and overall it takes about 18 seconds to get 3. Just Purge it off the Ret. Profit.


You're making the fatal assumption that the opposing team has a dispel and that the dispeller isn't busy doing something else. If you played arenas in any serious capacity you'd know that gaining (and maintaining) FoL stacks is easy unless if you get focus dispelled.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9570
Spriest lawl
Edited by Regazozo on 2/9/2013 11:13 AM PST
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90 Undead Monk
14260
the rebirth of triple dps
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90 Human Paladin
6815
02/09/2013 11:07 AMPosted by Annabél
140k. Learn math.

Secondly, Ret was always meant to have massive heals. We have hilariously tiny mana pools, so we can't just spam Flash of Light. Spriests can spam Flash Heal though. Having high heals is a part of Ret's fundamental base support and defense system. It makes up for our hilarious lack of damage outside of CDs, compared to other classes. Divine Purpose procs are the only way we can get an "okay" damage outside of CDs, but getting DP nerfs our burst dramatically.


250x0.7 = 170

Learn maths.

How does having strong heals make up for lack of damage outside of cooldowns? Explain that to me, given the two mechanics do not balance each other out as the operate on different principles - increasing health pools, or decreasing them.
OP said 200k, not 250k. Battle Fatigue is 30% reduction. 30% of 200 is 60. 200 - 60 = 140.

And it's just how Ret works. We are not Warriors, we are not DKs, we are not Hunters. We are Paladins. We don't pull over a million damage a minute, we can't lock our main target out for 7 seconds in two different stuns, etc. Rets are not a pure DPS class. We are a support class first, a DPS class second. We are also a very defensive class, we are also the only Plate hybrid. Like I said before, it's just how Ret works.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9570
02/09/2013 11:14 AMPosted by Stormspellx
the rebirth of triple dps


I dont see this being as big as last exp. Rets are far to squishy and burst is way stronger then it was in cata. 2 dps will still be able to tunnel a ret or spriest to the ground before they can effectively heal up.
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90 Human Paladin
6815
Omg I can't comment fast enough on my iPod.....

Also, it's not hard to prevent instant Flash of Lights. It is actually hilariously easy. It takes about 6 seconds for a Ret to get a single stack of Selfless Healer, and overall it takes about 18 seconds to get 3. Just Purge it off the Ret. Profit.


You're making the fatal assumption that the opposing team has a dispel and that the dispeller isn't busy doing something else. If you played arenas in any serious capacity you'd know that gaining (and maintaining) FoL stacks is easy unless if you get focus dispelled.
Indeed it is, but it's also easy to just dispel it off. If you're letting the Ret stack up Selfless Healer, while having the full ability to stop it, it's an L2P issue and you deserve to lose. It'd be like a Paladin refusing to bubble when he knows he's going to die without it, or a Warrior who refuses to charge, or a Mage who refuses to Blink, etc. Blizzard gave you the ability to do it, if you choose not to, then have fun losing.

Edit: The likely-hood of you not having a dispel on your team is very small, but it is possible I guess, so I guess those teams will have problems. So just tunnel the Ret. Selfless Healer has no effect on him, and if the Ret is playing defensively the whole game by spamming WoGs, he's not doing much damage.
Edited by Mvp on 2/9/2013 11:31 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
6815
02/09/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Regazozo
the rebirth of triple dps


I dont see this being as big as last exp. Rets are far to squishy and burst is way stronger then it was in cata. 2 dps will still be able to tunnel a ret or spriest to the ground before they can effectively heal up.
Yeah I agree with this. Triple DPS could likely only make it if all 3 are hybrids, but then they'll likely be hard casting heals the whole game just to keep each other up. So it really is a maybe, even if Ret gets its well deserved buff.
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100 Night Elf Druid
5355
i m confused Anurakis... doesnt purge and priest offenisive single target dispel not hav a CD and is spammable?

Omg I can't comment fast enough on my iPod.....



You're making the fatal assumption that the opposing team has a dispel and that the dispeller isn't busy doing something else. If you played arenas in any serious capacity you'd know that gaining (and maintaining) FoL stacks is easy unless if you get focus dispelled.
Indeed it is, but it's also easy to just dispel it off. If you're letting the Ret stack up Selfless Healer, while having the full ability to stop it, it's an L2P issue and you deserve to lose. It'd be like a Paladin refusing to bubble when he knows he's going to die without it, or a Warrior who refuses to charge, or a Mage who refuses to Blink, etc. Blizzard gave you the ability to do it, if you choose not to, then have fun losing.

Edit: The likely-hood of you not having a dispel on your team is very small, but it is possible I guess, so I guess those teams will have problems. So just tunnel the Ret. Selfless Healer has no effect on him, and if the Ret is playing defensively the whole game by spamming WoGs, he's not doing much damage.


and huh wat mage blink ummm ok...
Edited by Kitteykat on 2/9/2013 12:54 PM PST
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80 Human Priest
3225
There is a PTR video of a ret paladin getting a 270k FoL crit. That's 189k even with Battle Fatigue...
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100 Night Elf Druid
5355
02/09/2013 12:05 PMPosted by Primiez
There is a PTR video of a ret paladin getting a 270k FoL crit. That's 189k even with Battle Fatigue...


is that with all cooldowns popped or normally?
Edited by Kitteykat on 2/9/2013 12:08 PM PST
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