So Shadow healing is too strong yet Ret

91 Human Mage
6145
Dude rets are so poor right now. They get something nice and this is what happens. You guys need to get some sort of empathy.
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76 Human Hunter
7920
Ret on the ptr has far and away better healing than Spriests. 30k flash heals and 6k renew ticks are nothing and can't save your teammates compared to the huge burst heals that ret can pump out. Ret burst healing is even higher than in Holy spec.
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Why do peopel act like Rets have such a small mana pool, they regen 6% every 2 seconds aka infinite mana. It's not like enhance who casts twice and goes completely OOM and both heals totaling 40k. Rets have a small mana pool but insanely high regen, they can't sit there and chain cast FoL but they sure can cast them whenever they need to.
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10 Human Mage
4425
02/09/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Lissbanka
140k. Learn math.

Secondly, Ret was always meant to have massive heals. We have hilariously tiny mana pools, so we can't just spam Flash of Light. Spriests can spam Flash Heal though. Having high heals is a part of Ret's fundamental base support and defense system. It makes up for our hilarious lack of damage outside of CDs, compared to other classes. Divine Purpose procs are the only way we can get an "okay" damage outside of CDs, but getting DP nerfs our burst dramatically.


Your mana pool as Ret is No smaller then that of an enahnc eshammy or feral druid. Ne=ither of which are healin gin that ball park. So where do you come off thinking as a ret the person is entitled to have heals that strong? You have more defensives then an enahnce shammy, you have mor eCC then an enhanc eshammy, you have a better gap maker/closer. So I would say there is not a reason in the world to think ret should have those heals because they have a small mana pool.


Don't try to drag Ret down with Enhancement Shaman logic.

We all know you need love.
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90 Orc Monk
7510
this isnt cata. wogs used to heal more cuz selfless healer used to be a passive talent ,which increases wog healing to your teammates by like 50%.

i would assume flash of light would heal more now. and theres no alternative to 3 stacks of selfless unlike druids predators swiftness just flash of light healing.


I agree, because it's mostly factual.
However, what I'm trying to promote is more proactive thinking and less reactive thinking. I know that you do not like Rets being able to heal for such a large value. However, that is the only thing I've gathered from this thread. All class comparisons aside (which should not be the tried-and-true basis for balance changes, imo), you offer very little in terms of suggestions or input on what a solution to that problem could be, or how it's actually breaking game-play for other players (Which is not the same as 'my heal does 80k, his does 140k, wtf')

Nobody does.
We all just bicker and moan about how other people are outperforming us.

Most classes have an out though. Your mage can iceblock. Though not the most effective, I can blood presence. What can Shaman do?

The rest I agree with.


02/09/2013 12:43 PMPosted by Azlem
Who cares if you can compare another class to the historically worst specs in the game?


I'd also like to throw this into the mixing pot.

When paladins got their new secondary resource 'holy power', ret had a few seasons where it really didn't have a defined role or indentity. They where doing well early on with WoG & the old selfless healer, but it goes nerfed quickly, and, until ~4.3, rets where considered by many to be 'non-viable'. That was when they started to come into their niche of powerful offheals and good burst, but hardly any sustained or passive mobility. They also became the crutch that Triple Dps needed to be operable in a 3v3 setting (which is actually something i'm totally fine with, because, like 2v2, i enjoy dps vs. dps games more than dps vs. heals).

Regardless, that niche perpetually vanished when MoP was released. Now, they're coming back into it, and, while the values make it look almost obscene to those unfamiliar, try to remember that in 4.3 cata Rets could WoG for 125k+ w/ cooldowns, and people only had 150k hp pools. This healing is, as a percentage, less than it has been in the past.
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91 Human Mage
6145
02/09/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Azlem
Regardless, that niche perpetually vanished when MoP was released. Now, they're coming back into it, and, while the values make it look almost obscene to those unfamiliar, try to remember that in 4.3 cata Rets could WoG for 125k+ w/ cooldowns, and people only had 150k hp pools. This healing is, as a percentage, less than it has been in the past.


This guy knows what he is talking about. The rest of you are just mad that you cant steamroll my poor dreadful paladin as hard as you could. They are underPowered. They AND shamans need a boost. Stop trying to compare them both. They are both broken underplayed and underpowered at the moment. Chill your beans.
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90 Undead Monk
16235
02/09/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Mindboggler
Regardless, that niche perpetually vanished when MoP was released. Now, they're coming back into it, and, while the values make it look almost obscene to those unfamiliar, try to remember that in 4.3 cata Rets could WoG for 125k+ w/ cooldowns, and people only had 150k hp pools. This healing is, as a percentage, less than it has been in the past.


This guy knows what he is talking about. The rest of you are just mad that you cant steamroll my poor dreadful paladin as hard as you could. They are underPowered. They AND shamans need a boost. Stop trying to compare them both. They are both broken underplayed and underpowered at the moment. Chill your beans.


gonzo healing as a hybrid breaks the game.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7495
You have to have selfless and you can already get at least 100k+ on a full stack, but it requires that specific talent and a full stack which takes awhile.

Without any specifics though this isn't going anywhere.
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90 Human Priest
6925
Horrible logic: ''Ret's are so underpowered right now, so its okay for them to have stupid amounts of healing'' No one should balance a game this way, Stop using this stupid argument.

We've bin nerfed 5.1, with our flash heals healing for 30k-35k. Also we can easily go oom.
Edited by Cleangirls on 2/9/2013 2:20 PM PST
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91 Human Mage
6145
Horrible logic: ''Ret's are so underpowered right now, so its okay for them to have stupid amounts of healing'' No one should balance a game this way, Stop using this stupid argument.

We've bin nerfed 5.1, with our flash heals healing for 30k-35k. Also we can easily go oom.


Dude what!? Every class in the game has better healing than ret right now. Because they can heal to half health now in one burst on the PTR you think its broken? Did you notice that ret is hybrid??? That is supposed to be one of their strengths. Quit trying to balance the game around 1v1. On a team rets need to be able to be the hybrid that their stupid spec description claims they can be. 20-30k heals never got anyone anywhere. Next patch everyone will be running around with 500k health while everyone is complaining about 150k flash heals out of a 60k mana pool once every minutes. Get real bruh. Respect the Bruhthaurity bruh.
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90 Human Priest
6925
Horrible logic: ''Ret's are so underpowered right now, so its okay for them to have stupid amounts of healing'' No one should balance a game this way, Stop using this stupid argument.

We've bin nerfed 5.1, with our flash heals healing for 30k-35k. Also we can easily go oom.


Dude what!? Every class in the game has better healing than ret right now. Because they can heal to half health now in one burst on the PTR you think its broken? Did you notice that ret is hybrid??? That is supposed to be one of their strengths. Quit trying to balance the game around 1v1. On a team rets need to be able to be the hybrid that their stupid spec description claims they can be. 20-30k heals never got anyone anywhere. Next patch everyone will be running around with 500k health while everyone is complaining about 150k flash heals out of a 60k mana pool once every minutes. Get real bruh. Respect the Bruhthaurity bruh.


First of all, i never said they should balance the game around 1v1.

02/09/2013 02:27 PMPosted by Mindboggler
stupid spec description claims they can be.


????

02/09/2013 02:27 PMPosted by Mindboggler
500k health


Everyone has 400k health pools with full season gear.

Every dps spec should have some selfhealing, but not absurd 200k heals. Healers dont burst heal that high atm.
Edited by Cleangirls on 2/9/2013 2:43 PM PST
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100 Orc Shaman
16055


Your mana pool as Ret is No smaller then that of an enahnc eshammy or feral druid. Ne=ither of which are healin gin that ball park. So where do you come off thinking as a ret the person is entitled to have heals that strong? You have more defensives then an enahnce shammy, you have mor eCC then an enhanc eshammy, you have a better gap maker/closer. So I would say there is not a reason in the world to think ret should have those heals because they have a small mana pool.


Don't try to drag Ret down with Enhancement Shaman logic.

We all know you need love.


my point is people trying to justify HUGE heals because of a small limitless mana pool. The ret regen is not a percentage based on actually hitting a targt. Shammy healing outside of haveing a glyph and 5 stacks of Maelstorm is a joke, with both of those it is just less of a joke.
People can not jsutify 140k insta cast heals by a DPS spec, I would say if an enhacne was doing that, it should be nerfed and enhance does not have much outside of heals to survive on but that is way to much for a DPS to be throwing out. I have screen shots from a ret in a random BG in gear equal to mine doing more healing hten he did damage. Most of which was while i was beating on him. They should be forced to do melee attacks to stack holy power such as enahnce has to for maelstorm. Because he was runnign from me hitting me at 20+ yards then insta spamming. I holy pally stunned him and it was the only way I wa sable to catch up and ended up beating him into the ground with my ascendance popped. Meaning my damage outside of ascendance may be a bit low but inside of it a bit on the high side.
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100 Human Warlock
9745
02/09/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Regazozo
I dont see this being as big as last exp. Rets are far to squishy and burst is way stronger then it was in cata. 2 dps will still be able to tunnel a ret or spriest to the ground before they can effectively heal up.


Unless two of the other classes can peel. Which is why triple dps worked last xpack.
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90 Human Paladin
6815
Ret finally gets a chance to participate in the expansion and everyone tries to get them nerfed......
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100 Undead Mage
7785
I don't care if it was on a two minute cd. No dps should be able to throw out an instant heal, or even a casted heal, for 140K+. Period.
02/09/2013 04:35 PMPosted by Mvp
Ret finally gets a chance to participate in the expansion and everyone tries to get them nerfed......
Thats not it at all. I'd like to see more rets running around. I don't however, want to see them acting as a second healer like they did at the end of cata. Spriest heals were too high, and they're being brought down for a very valid reason.
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100 Night Elf Druid
5355
02/09/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Esmee
I don't however, want to see them acting as a second healer like they did at the end of cata.


yea pretty much last season for arena it was like

why take a hpally? when you can take a Ret?

rbgs is another story
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
02/09/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Esmee
I don't care if it was on a two minute cd. No dps should be able to throw out an instant heal, or even a casted heal, for 140K+. Period.


We can hit 140k under full cooldowns right now, and Blizzard deemed that to be not enough for their design intent with the spec. That's why they significantly buffed the base healing of FoL for ret, but nerfed SH. They're pushing us more toward what we were in 4.3.

You might not like it, but that is what they're obviously intending.
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90 Human Paladin
5150
Without burst on self also without battle fatigue: 75k+ On a ally without burst no fatigue: 150k+

With burst on self without fatigue: 125k+ with burst on a ally without fatigue: 200k+

Seems reasonable to me.
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