Soul of the Forest or Incarnation?

90 Night Elf Druid
10370
I know this is a kind of old topic but I wanted to get some new opinions.
So Soul of the Forest is in my opinion at the very least on par with if not better than incarnation.
If we take Nature's Vigil we've got two big CD's between it and Tranq...shouldn't need more than that if you're rotating CD's with the other healers in your group.
Additionally, with the 4p t14 bonus and WG glyph, swiftmend and WG become at about the same CD, with SM being about half to 1 second behind since you'll be casting it first. They synergize very well.
If, like me, you've geared for the 21.43% haste breakpoint, Wild Growth gains a ton of extra ticks. making WG even more powerful than before and being able to do the SM, WG thing every time you cast WG
vs Incarnation
Which has its own very powerful benefits-spreading LB for extra OoC procs, insta regrowths for all those OoC procs, along with a baseline bonus to all healing.

On a lot of raid encounters though, I have a tough time deciding when to use Incarnation. Vs SOTF which is always working towards my healing. Anyone got suggestions for how to maximize the use of Incarnation?

Also discuss the SotF buff in 5.2-changes the bonus haste from 50% to 75% for even more WG ticks.

tl;dr: SotF vs Incarnation / how to use Incarnation effectively on most fights
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90 Night Elf Druid
10370
02/09/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Dewan
But for now I personally think getting to the 6k haste break point is a waste.

I've always been of the opinion that getting an extra tick on WG from the second breakpoint is more beneficial than the higher mastery of a low haste build, especially on fights like Empress where there's a lot of raid damage going out
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90 Worgen Druid
10645
02/09/2013 05:42 PMPosted by Miers
But for now I personally think getting to the 6k haste break point is a waste.

I've always been of the opinion that getting an extra tick on WG from the second breakpoint is more beneficial than the higher mastery of a low haste build, especially on fights like Empress where there's a lot of raid damage going out


It's not.

I transferred so I don't know how I can find my old posts since I did some maths in one of them. But basically, since you already get 12 ticks with SotF at 3043, it's just not worth it to increase your WG healing by 8% at the cost of ~2700 mastery which is roughly 5.5% for all your spells.

In order for it to be worth going to 5730, you would have to be doing the vast majority of your healing with WG, which just isn't happening right now. Even if WG does 50% of your healing (which is not even close to what it should realistically be doing), going for 5730 haste would give you a 4% increase in your overall healing, at the cost of 5.5% from mastery
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90 Troll Druid
17325
02/09/2013 06:48 PMPosted by Drimza

I've always been of the opinion that getting an extra tick on WG from the second breakpoint is more beneficial than the higher mastery of a low haste build, especially on fights like Empress where there's a lot of raid damage going out


It's not.

I transferred so I don't know how I can find my old posts since I did some maths in one of them. But basically, since you already get 12 ticks with SotF at 3043, it's just not worth it to increase your WG healing by 8% at the cost of ~2700 mastery which is roughly 5.5% for all your spells.

In order for it to be worth going to 5730, you would have to be doing the vast majority of your healing with WG, which just isn't happening right now. Even if WG does 50% of your healing (which is not even close to what it should realistically be doing), going for 5730 haste would give you a 4% increase in your overall healing, at the cost of 5.5% from mastery


Yeah, getting those extra ticks aren't worth it at all, and you'd lose 4 maybe 5% of your mastery for it.
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90 Troll Druid
11860
02/09/2013 05:42 PMPosted by Miers
But for now I personally think getting to the 6k haste break point is a waste.

I've always been of the opinion that getting an extra tick on WG from the second breakpoint is more beneficial than the higher mastery of a low haste build, especially on fights like Empress where there's a lot of raid damage going out


It use to be a long time ago but not anytime during this xpak.

SotF is very strong @3043 w/4-pc already. In 10s I have come to use it the majority of the time but prior to the 4-pc I used Incar more often. I'm only doing heroics.

Same goes for Heart of the Wild vs NV. Obviously NV is superior the majority of the time but adding 8mill extra damage say on heroic Vizier helped out more in this situation because NV alone wouldn't save anyone from a F&V without some other CD rolling anyways.

As the guy from Gag Reflex stated buffing one spell vs all spells with Harmony isn't even close to being worth it.
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02/10/2013 10:39 AMPosted by Moophious

I've always been of the opinion that getting an extra tick on WG from the second breakpoint is more beneficial than the higher mastery of a low haste build, especially on fights like Empress where there's a lot of raid damage going out


It use to be a long time ago but not anytime during this xpak.

SotF is very strong @3043 w/4-pc already. In 10s I have come to use it the majority of the time but prior to the 4-pc I used Incar more often. I'm only doing heroics.

Same goes for Heart of the Wild vs NV. Obviously NV is superior the majority of the time but adding 8mill extra damage say on heroic Vizier helped out more in this situation because NV alone wouldn't save anyone from a F&V without some other CD rolling anyways.

As the guy from Gag Reflex stated buffing one spell vs all spells with Harmony isn't even close to being worth it.


You know, I wonder how much damage a Resto Druid could put out with a well timed Nature's Vigil. Turning all those Rejuv ticks into damage to a nearby target seems like it would be very handy.
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90 Tauren Druid
15830
I only have experience in normals but to me it's always been a matter of consistent hps vs cooldowns. NV alone just doesn't feel like a good cooldown, and even if you like it, it's still that much better when paired with Incarnation.

I also like the versatility. SotF really only seems good for heavy, consistent raid damage. Incarnation helps with that, and it's also good for heavy tank damage with instant Regrowths, or to conserve mana when there's low damage with LB blanketing.

Of course this might just be my raid comp, too. I heal with another druid and a resto shammy, maybe if I had a disc priest absorbing huge chunks of damage for every Force and Verve or Protector explosion or whatever I'd have less need for my own cooldowns, and might wanna try SotF.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10370
02/10/2013 11:07 AMPosted by Flintte
You know, I wonder how much damage a Resto Druid could put out with a well timed Nature's Vigil. Turning all those Rejuv ticks into damage to a nearby target seems like it would be very handy.


best i've been able to do is about 700k over the 30s
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90 Troll Druid
17325


It use to be a long time ago but not anytime during this xpak.

SotF is very strong @3043 w/4-pc already. In 10s I have come to use it the majority of the time but prior to the 4-pc I used Incar more often. I'm only doing heroics.

Same goes for Heart of the Wild vs NV. Obviously NV is superior the majority of the time but adding 8mill extra damage say on heroic Vizier helped out more in this situation because NV alone wouldn't save anyone from a F&V without some other CD rolling anyways.

As the guy from Gag Reflex stated buffing one spell vs all spells with Harmony isn't even close to being worth it.


You know, I wonder how much damage a Resto Druid could put out with a well timed Nature's Vigil. Turning all those Rejuv ticks into damage to a nearby target seems like it would be very handy.


I have NV macro'd to Tranq and only damage about ~450k. In comparison to the healing that a Boomkin does with it (even though they have it macro'd to incarnation) it's pretty underwhelming.
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90 Troll Druid
11860
02/11/2013 02:10 PMPosted by Mooniverse
NV alone just doesn't feel like a good cooldown, and even if you like it, it's still that much better when paired with Incarnation.


It's an okay CD but you're right - using it with Tranq is very powerful and trumps spamming RJ and WG for it by light-years but that doesn't imply that those 5 ppl need all that healing.

I have died using tranq if I wasn't topped off prior on certain encounters. But using a hasted Tranq off of SotF IMO is even better in terms of application (speed) of healing and have not seen anyone nor myself die yet and I think is the main reason ppl die even with NV rolling with tranq.
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
I use SoF on all fights where I know my WGs are going to hit 4-6 players. If it's not, then I'm using Incarnation.

The exception is on Wind Lord, since apparently NV can break the speared mobs - so I use Incarnation so I can have a healing CD outside of Tranq.

... now that I write that, I've got to rethink that ... it's not like I need a healing CD before all the speared mobs are gone ...
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90 Troll Druid
17325
I use SoF on all fights where I know my WGs are going to hit 4-6 players. If it's not, then I'm using Incarnation.

The exception is on Wind Lord, since apparently NV can break the speared mobs - so I use Incarnation so I can have a healing CD outside of Tranq.

... now that I write that, I've got to rethink that ... it's not like I need a healing CD before all the speared mobs are gone ...


I thought NV did that too, but I haven't broken the CC's yet. They might've fixed it.
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90 Tauren Druid
8495
I'll have to check how much dmg i can do on vizier tonight i have Tol+NV+int pot macroe'd w/tranq and i always heal the first FnV on the two phases.
Edited by Lìfendeath on 2/12/2013 8:36 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
11860
02/12/2013 08:35 PMPosted by Lìfendeath
I'll have to check how much dmg i can do on vizier tonight i have Tol+NV+int pot macroe'd w/tranq and i always heal the first FnV on the two phases.


I'm 100% certain you'll go Oom on your next HoF progression boss
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90 Night Elf Druid
12925
NV is really mana dependent and is really only good when paired with Incarnation. HotW is better for every other situation since it buffs all your healing spells by a good amount at all times. Plus the utility it provides is amazing for progression fights.

The Incarnation vs SotF argument is really dependent on the encounter. Personally I've found SotF to be very good with the 4pc bonus in every fight I've done so far. In terms of pure HpS, SotF will out-shine Incarn, but Incarn allows you to be more versatile.
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
The exception is on Wind Lord, since apparently NV can break the speared mobs - so I use Incarnation so I can have a healing CD outside of Tranq.

... now that I write that, I've got to rethink that ... it's not like I need a healing CD before all the speared mobs are gone ...


I thought NV did that too, but I haven't broken the CC's yet. They might've fixed it.


Asked if I could give it a try last night. Was told I'd get smacked if it broke CC.

So I'm going to give it a roll in LFR and see if it breaks CC.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17325
I love SoTF. Can't wait for the buff it has coming in 5.2 I'll likely NEVER use ToL anymore.

Also I prefer NV over HoTW only because I never really use the HOTW CD, and NV is good when stacked with tranq
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
it really is fight dependent, fights with high sustained damage such as heroic will sotf really shines, but on fights like lei shi, reg empress, ect having lb rolling on both tanks can be pretty amazing.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7750
Am I the only one who links SotF with Tranq just to see the channel bar blaze by?
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