PTR Chi Wave = Ghetto Cascade

90 Pandaren Monk
9670
So with the new talent tree I decided to play around with them on PTR.

Zen Sphere is all but useless. It ticks for 5k and detonates for 14k. Why you would use this is beyond my knowledge.

Chi Burst is the identical spell except you cannot stockpile chi and spam it for burst healing. This part really sucks.

So this leaves Chi Wave as really one of the only useful spells in the tier. The issue is that the spell is basically a watered down version of cascade. It is on a shorter CD so I would expect it to heal for less. This isn't the problem. It is the sheer time it takes for it to bounce everywhere. Right now standing on PTR there are 30 people around me for it to bounce. It will bounce off 1 person then the dummy then another person and so on. Doing this 7 times it takes between 7-12 seconds for it to bounce. Essentially making it fairly useless for burst healing. There was actually a few times where it came off CD while it was still bouncing.

It just seems like it should bounce quicker to make it more effective. It looks like a spell you will use on CD since it is free.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9455
02/09/2013 05:13 PMPosted by Wönka
Zen Sphere is all but useless. It ticks for 5k and detonates for 14k. Why you would use this is beyond my knowledge


Don't the t2 heals scale with AP? If so, Zen Sphere could be very useful for a tank. If not, then 5k ticks still take the edge off quite a bit of Stagger.

02/09/2013 05:13 PMPosted by Wönka
Chi Burst is the identical spell except you cannot stockpile chi and spam it for burst healing. This part really sucks.


It has its uses, just like the others do: my guild stacks for easier healing on quite a few bosses. Basically, anytime your guild stacks, Chi Burst is amazing. I use it on Tsulong when the tanks and healers stand in front of him for the Breath of Awesome Healing and fire it at the boss. 100k heals on everything it hits. Same for Gara'jal when I'm not taking him or Wind Lord when we stack for the Rain of Blades.
Edited by Meixie on 2/9/2013 5:40 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
9670
Chi burst right now is amazing for stacks yes. Once it is on a 30 second CD though it limits that usefulness it has.

Being able to fire off 4 chi bursts in a matter of seconds right now is incredible for burst healing. That will not be the case any more though. It will still have its uses but not like it does not.

I am not sure also about zen sphere, I was just referring to it as mistweaver. For healing it is all but useless.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9455
Oh poop. I missed the bit about the CD.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Honestly, with Chi Wave gutted and the cooldown on Chi Burst, I think I'd end up taking Zen Sphere. I think about it like this: It's a free single target mini-cooldown that gives a HoT on top of the heals I already do, and it's got a nice little cushion for if the target drops to a certain percentage, again, at no cost. I barely ever used Chi Burst outside of a situational stack, especially now that it's on a long cooldown, and Chi Wave was just too short of a burst to really justify the long travel distance. Considering I'm tank healer for our raid group, Zen Sphere looks like the optimal choice. But that's me.

You know, considering they're removing the Chi costs, the reduced effects seem perfectly reasonable to me. You really shouldn't have been throwing your Chi into them when you have more effective heals through Uplift, Blackout Kick, or Enveloping Mists if you got that extra point.
Edited by Fistlobster on 2/9/2013 6:56 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
8100
I'm still confused why they are nerfing this overall. :/
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Brewmasters couldn't use the talents because the Chi was simply better spent in BoK and Guard. Windwalkers had better uses of their Chi as well. Mistweavers were starting to integrate these situational abilities into regular rotation, when they're meant to be nice little abilities that give you a little oomph when you need it. By removing Chi, it opens the ability up to all specs, but to have it completely free without limiting it or in some way downsizing it would simply be too much. Ergo, some abilities have reduced effectiveness, others have increased cooldown. This is all to compensate of the removal of cost.
Edited by Fistlobster on 2/9/2013 7:05 PM PST
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
02/09/2013 07:04 PMPosted by Fistlobster
Brewmasters couldn't use the talents because the Chi was simply better spent in BoK and Guard. Windwalkers had better uses of their Chi as well. Mistweavers were starting to integrate these situational abilities into regular rotation, when they're meant to be nice little abilities that give you a little oomph when you need it. By removing Chi, it opens the ability up to all specs, but to have it completely free without limiting it or in some way downsizing it would simply be too much. Ergo, some abilities have reduced effectiveness, others have increased cooldown. This is all to compensate of the removal of cost.


Personally I like the live version giving me an option on how to spend chi (assuming mw). With the changes, particularly if the current discussion that the output buff was reverted while keeping the cooldown increases is correct, I'm not sure I'll bother using any of them all that often.

The change to costing no chi is great for BM (and probably ww-I haven't played that spec much) but personally I don't like the chi wave change for mw and the chi burst cd is just ugggh...
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Removing the chi cost makes this more attractive which fighting bosses or trash packs, especially for chi-starved tanks. It becomes less of a question of "Can I spend 2 chi on this instead of BK, Guard, or purifying brew?" and more of a question of "Is my vengeance high enough to make casting this chi wave worth it?"
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90 Pandaren Monk
9455
I don't know what you guys are complaining about. I'm a BrM and I'm going to use it more or less on CD. Free heals, brah.
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90 Undead Monk
8765
For PVE yea.......go for it
But for PVP Chi Wave is significantly better.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8880
02/10/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Meixie
I don't know what you guys are complaining about. I'm a BrM and I'm going to use it more or less on CD. Free heals, brah.


Zen Sphere is wasted global Brah. 5k tic and 14k detonate isn't worth the time for a MW. Both wave and burst now represent a nerf to live, brah. Absolutly no reason to nerf MW throughput. The healing tier of talents is now pretty lame for monk healers. Would rather have a useful spell that I can use chi to heal.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
10730
02/09/2013 07:04 PMPosted by Fistlobster
Brewmasters couldn't use the talents because the Chi was simply better spent in BoK and Guard.


BRM rotations are generally shuffle-positive. Guard should be reserved for predictable burst damage, so that leaves plenty of chi for chi wave.

I get to fire off chi wave plenty. My healing is still below the other tank (blood dk) but I do feel like I help the healers out a bit during spike damage.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9670
The problem is they have very different uses per spec. This helps both brewmaster and ww but nerfs mistweavers over all.

That is the issue I have being MW is that it is a direct nerf to the spec.

It was nice having the option to do somethign other than uplift spam with 2 chi. Having chi blast for group fights was very nice.
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90 Pandaren Monk
16140
I copied my toon over and bought the new BM tier and decided to test out Zen Sphere and Wave. I am not sure how you were getting 5k ticks with Zen Sphere unless you had a ton of vengeance. I do not remember what my atp was on the ptr but it was in my current gear+the tier 15 pieces. With no vengeance it only ticks for 2k with an 8k explosion. On live it at least starts of at around 7-8k tick with no vengeance. Wave heals for less than it does on live with double the CD...yay.

I guess for PvE Windwalkers it's fine because free damage buttons, but I can see where MW and BM wouldn't even want to waste the time it took to use them. Once again, thank you PvP for affecting my PvE.

I was honestly exited when I first read that the costs were being removed and expected a slight nerf in their efficiency to compensate, not gutted to the point of wondering why I am hitting the button at all. At this point I would rather them leave the cost in if it meant going back to the original healing output.
Edited by Ðerder on 2/10/2013 6:56 PM PST
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Geez, what are Wind Walkers gonna do next patch?
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90 Tauren Shaman
5095
tried them out on the PTR, doing mostly arenas, and it really did nerf MW's ability to heal through high amounts of burst

Some teams are actually unhealable as mistweaver such as KFC. We have to rely on ring of peace/grapple/paralyze to stop the damage cause MW's cant spam nukes like other healers can
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90 Night Elf Druid
5485
02/10/2013 04:32 PMPosted by Glaurfu
Would rather have a useful spell that I can use chi to heal.


Wouldn't this be better addressed by fixes to existing chi heals? What exactly is wrong with them anyway?

If the only good way to use your chi as MW is on talents, that's a problem even if the talents are good. They're talents, they're not supposed to be spammed or become part of a regular rotation.
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