Sacred shield scaling off Ap (ret only)

90 Human Paladin
5150
Currently Sacred shield yields a 14,000 shield with 11,000 spell power. So say it scaled off Ap like this 90% ap + 3,000 this would yield with my attack power a 24,600 Ss which is about on par with holy and prot sacred shield. This is also needed to be competitive against Sh and Ef come 5.2.
Edited by Paladinww on 2/10/2013 1:56 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
9970
Sacred Shield, like every other spell we have, already scales off attack power via the Sword of Light passive.
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90 Human Paladin
5150
What im asking for is a basic buff to sacred shield be the means of having it scale directly off Ap and not thro sword of light.
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90 Human Paladin
8415
Then they'd cut the scaling in half so it would be roughly the same amount of absorption. They're not going to just double the effect.
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90 Human Paladin
5150
I am asking for a buff to its strength because it will be useless in most situations after Ef and fol buff.
Edited by Paladinww on 2/10/2013 12:55 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
8415
Since the scaling is based entirely on attack power already, it wouldn't scale any better if it scaled directly off attack power than it does now.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10795
02/09/2013 10:22 PMPosted by Paladinww
Would still end up scaling better in later tiers...


Pretend it scales off AP at a 1:2 ratio
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90 Human Paladin
9970
What you're asking has nothing to do with scaling; the ability scales fine. You're just talking about buffing Sacred Shield's absorb strength, which is unnecessary, since it's already a pretty good talent, and reasonably competitive with its alternatives. Its primary weakness is that it's dispellable, and that's going away in 5.2.
Edited by Ravicana on 2/9/2013 11:15 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
0
I'm sorry, I didn't know an auto attack absorb every 6 seconds was considered good... In ret it does nothing for an absorb...scaling off of ap would make it an actually viable talent. It's 40k for holy...14k for ret. but it's fine how it is for ret right?
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90 Human Paladin
9970
It ALREADY scales off AP. That is the point of Sword of Light.

It also absorbs more than either of the other two talents heal. All numbers before including haste, since that will affect each talent proportionally:
Over 30 seconds, Sacred Shield ticks 5 times for 343+117% of spellpower = 1715 + 585% spellpower total.
Over the same 30 seconds, Eternal Flame ticks 10 times for 508 + 5.85% of spellpower, or 5080 + 58.5% of spellpower total. (Notice that Sacred Shield scales literally ten times as much.) In 5.2, this will be doubled to 10160 + 117% of spellpower for self-healing.
And Selfless Healer gives you a free instant FoL every 18s (at best). FoL heals an average of 12606 + 112% spellpower, which is increased by Sword of Light's 30% bonus to 16388 + 146% spellpower. (Again, note that it scales WAY less than Sacred Shield.)

With 22k attack power (= 11k spellpower), this means Sacred Shield absorbs 66065 over 30 seconds, or 2202 hp/sec. Eternal Flame heals 23030 over 30 seconds, or 768 hp/sec (in 5.2, 1536 hp/sec). And Selfless Healer heals 32448 every 18s at best, or 1802 hp/sec (not including crits). Unless you can frequently take advantage of Supplication procs, Sacred Shield is the best talent for personal survivability, by a decent margin - and it's preventive instead of reactive.
And since Sacred Shield's scales WAY more than the other two talents, it only pulls further ahead in the presence of buffs, cooldowns, and better gear. The scaling is clearly not the problem; it scales half again as well as SH and FIVE TIMES as well as EF even with the buffs those are getting in 5.2.

As Ret, your Sacred Shield isn't supposed to be comparable to Holy or Prot's. Holy is a healing spec; it's their entire job to keep people alive. Prot is a tank spec; they are supposed to have very strong defensive abilities. Comparing Ret defenses to Prot defenses is silly. Sacred Shield is a strong talent (it's comparable to Frost Barrier in total absorption over time), and as good as or better than other talents in its tier. By nature, it is less useful against burst, which combined with its dispellability makes it somewhat less desirable for PvP; 5.2 is already addressing the dispel part. But there's really no possible way to look at it and conclude that it doesn't scale well enough.

Edit: And by the way, your 40k figure for a Holy SS is rather exaggerated.
Edited by Ravicana on 2/10/2013 12:32 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
0
O.o my friend is in full blues and that's how much his was absorbing. Why can't ret have defensives? 66k over 30 seconds does not in any way shape or form out do instant 69k non crits next patch. The shield should be just that, not an auto attack stopper. You also forgot to factor in the haste for judgement making it roughly 5 seconds, making it even not 32k every 15 seconds. It doesn't scale with ap, it scales with sp which is scaled off ap. it is indirectly scaled off of ap but we want it direct. It does not scale better than SH. SH is the better talent for ret.

02/10/2013 12:17 AMPosted by Ravicana
Comparing Ret defenses to Prot defenses is silly.


I don't think anyone compared it to prot O.o which is obviously dumb. That's like comparing frost survival to blood.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10795
O.o my friend is in full blues and that's how much his was absorbing. Why can't ret have defensives? 66k over 30 seconds does not in any way shape or form out do instant 69k non crits next patch. The shield should be just that, not an auto attack stopper. You also forgot to factor in the haste for judgement making it roughly 5 seconds, making it even not 32k every 15 seconds. It doesn't scale with ap, it scales with sp which is scaled off ap. it is indirectly scaled off of ap but we want it direct. It does not scale better than SH. SH is the better talent for ret.

Comparing Ret defenses to Prot defenses is silly.


I don't think anyone compared it to prot O.o which is obviously dumb. That's like comparing frost survival to blood.


THEN TAKE SELFLESS HEALER AND STOP COMPLAINING.

Never posted in all caps before. How am I doing?
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90 Human Paladin
0
I'm not, I'm just defending the point basically. SS could use a buff in ret.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
SS absorbs significantly more than SH heals, and is proactive instead of reactive. SH is superior for burst healing and ally healing of course, because that is the purpose of SH. SS is superior for self-defense and taking damage over longer periods of time, because that is the purpose of SS. If you don't want continual absorption over long periods of time, don't take SS.
A decent argument could be made that SS should be buffed for Ret PvP. But it's already getting buffed for PvP by becoming undispellable, so that's rather moot. However, the numbers really, really do not support the idea that SS doesn't scale well enough (it has ~3/4 as much scaling PER TICK as FoL has on the entire cast), or doesn't absorb enough (it prevents more damage than either of the other talents heals, and totals up to a substantial amount over its duration).

And uh... yes, I didn't include haste. I said that I didn't include haste, right there in the post, as the very first thing in the analysis. It doesn't matter, because Sacred Shield also scales with haste, so adding more haste doesn't affect how the talents rank up.
Edited by Ravicana on 2/10/2013 2:46 AM PST
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I like sacred shield, and it's fine as it is. My only problem is I just never refresh it because having to use it every 30 seconds just slips my mind. That's my own fault though, because I'm stupid with the spell.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9790
SS is fine, they aren't going to buff it. In my current gear in combat I've seen the absorb get pretty high and it saves my !@# most times.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
Sacred Shield should probably be ~15% stronger via Sheath of Light, but it doesn't need to be doubled.
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90 Human Paladin
5150
Point is next patch with the 70% buff to fol sacred shield will be out shined completely.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
Sacred shield is already outshined completely.
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