Pala Hit/Exp PvE

90 Human Paladin
6755
I've read conflicting things about being hit and exp capped. I have no issues with keeping aggro on targets.

I was told to reforge to get hit and exp but been thinking about removing my exp reforge into haste so I can keep shield up more often.

Just looking what you all do and any advice you'd have to give.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
Having haste won't matter if you miss.

You don't cap hit/exp for threat, you cap them for consistent resource generation
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90 Pandaren Monk
15130
Keeping shield up will be harder regardless of haste, because you will be getting parried and dodged (depending where you put your exp), you miss a hit with any of your HP building abilities it could mean you won't have SoR for when you need it.

Being able to have very HP building ability count towards building HP makes you less squishy
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90 Human Paladin
8415
There's no conflicting information on paladin stats. You cap hit and expertise, always. Other tanks are more flexible, but paladins aren't.
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Like everyone said, capping Hit / Expertise (hard-cap, mind) is just as important tank stats as they are DPS stats. When your Crusader Strike, Judgment, or Grand Crusade Avenger's Shield is parried or blocked, you don't obtain HoPo. It's that simple.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11340
02/09/2013 05:01 PMPosted by Keten
There's no conflicting information on paladin stats. You cap hit and expertise, always. Other tanks are more flexible, but paladins aren't.


Using absolutes is always a risky thing. Had I not gotten two upgrades before we did garalon tonight, I would've sacrificed my caps for maximizing my dps to push out the 6% we wiped on the previous week.

The same reason the more common paladin priority isn't necessarily always optimal, generally in low vengeance situations.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9710
02/09/2013 11:21 PMPosted by Darpalta
There's no conflicting information on paladin stats. You cap hit and expertise, always. Other tanks are more flexible, but paladins aren't.


Using absolutes is always a risky thing. Had I not gotten two upgrades before we did garalon tonight, I would've sacrificed my caps for maximizing my dps to push out the 6% we wiped on the previous week.

The same reason the more common paladin priority isn't necessarily always optimal, generally in low vengeance situations.


In that case though, you're building for damage and not actually "tanking" anything. The original quote still stands as being correct for actual tanking.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11340
02/10/2013 12:05 AMPosted by Arte


Using absolutes is always a risky thing. Had I not gotten two upgrades before we did garalon tonight, I would've sacrificed my caps for maximizing my dps to push out the 6% we wiped on the previous week.

The same reason the more common paladin priority isn't necessarily always optimal, generally in low vengeance situations.


In that case though, you're building for damage and not actually "tanking" anything. The original quote still stands as being correct for actual tanking.


Not quite, you do tank garalon on Heroic. However, I used the same build for Heroic Blade Lord just as well, largely in part due to how ShoR is relatively OP for that fight, but still.

Hell, even on Wind Lord I kept one of my strength trinkets on.

Our job as tanks varies from fight to fight. Maximizing ourselves for new fights is part of raiding, and knowing how to maximize damage even as a tank is part of being a tank at times, though that is relatively rare.

Any boss that doesn't really threaten you is one you should max your DPS for, though doing so to varying degrees may be necessary. (i.e. on Sha I'd run Strength trinkets but still use the maximum Holy Power rotaiton, as opposed to the higher DPS rotation).
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100 Blood Elf Priest
14930
Capping accuracy is still your best route for dps though, no?
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90 Human Paladin
8415
02/10/2013 06:57 AMPosted by Nerfheals
Capping accuracy is still your best route for dps though, no?

It should be, yeah. If that rule applies to DPS damage it should apply to tank damage too.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11340
I should have clarified. I was referring to dropping about 1k expertise and 600 hit for 2k strength and two haste procs/on use, so about 1500 haste averaged. I ended up being about 500 rating of caps total.

The point being that losing 500 accuracy to grab about 3.5k str/haste was definitely worth it for the content we were working on, and as such rigid stat priorities involving caps can lead people astray at times.

Granted, if you're pushing content where things like that matter, (and arent in a guild whose DPS is just THAT behind on normal fights), you're probably knowledgeable enough to make that decision yourself.
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90 Human Paladin
13075
When your Crusader Strike, Judgment, or Grand Crusade Avenger's Shield is parried


I'm pretty sure judgment can't be parried or dodged anymore for obvious reasons and AS is based on spell hit, and not expertise. Paladin's only have 3 spells that are based off expertise, CS, HotR(both share a cd) and ShotR. Expertise helps a lot, but you don't need to be hard capped. If you're smart with cooldowns, 8/10 times you'll be fine.
Edited by Despoina on 2/13/2013 9:43 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
14930
Expertise helps a lot, but you don't need to be hard capped. If you're smart with cooldowns, 8/10 times you'll be fine.


So what you're saying is, by not capping Expertise, 20% of the time you needed it you'll just go splat?

Not very convincing.
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90 Human Paladin
13075
I guess I shouldn't have put the 8/10, but I haven't died because of being parried. You can do whatever you like, but I'm just sayin.. 15% expertise isn't needed, it helps don't get me wrong. 13/16h prot paladin, so it's not like I don't have any experience..
Edited by Despoina on 2/13/2013 10:03 AM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
It's just nonsensical to stack Haste over Hit/Exp. Theoretically you can, as in, you can use some inferior gems and still do okay... but why when it's blatantly worse than the alternative?

Why let RNG into your rotation when you can smooth out your Holy Power generation, and thus ShoR uptime, and thus damage intake? The entire idea of Haste is to increase your ShoR uptime, and that's only a worthwhile concept if you're Hit/Exp capped to ensure that it's a reliable increase.

I want to hear logic, not "I'm 13/16H and this is how I do things so it's viable".
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90 Human Paladin
13075
Because getting 4 parries in a 6+ minute fight isn't life or death, again it goes to smart use of cooldowns. There is -no- logic, as I said expertise is -good- I never said you shouldn't cap it, all I'm saying is you don't -need- to and still be successful.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
But there's no reason to value it under other stats. In other words, you need to cap Hit and Expertise because they give you more value than anything else on the table.
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90 Human Paladin
13075
Again, you don't need cap expertise at all, hit yes. And I'm not 'valuing' it under any stat - I'll hit expertise cap when I get my hands on the 'tier shoulder/helm'. So please don't jump down my throat here, I'm merely stating you don't have to be expertise capped to kill raid bosses. Of course people are going to cap it, but not being capped isn't the end of the world.
Edited by Despoina on 2/13/2013 10:16 AM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
Well, okay. Theoretically you're right - you can kill bosses without the Hit/Exp caps. It's far from ideal and you should be aiming for the caps, but if you for whatever reason can't get there (for example, if you're ret mainspec and would have to mangle a few ret pieces with expertise gems) then it's not the end of the world.

But if you want to min/max for Prot, you need 7.5% hit/15% expertise, or you're not min/maxed for raiding.
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90 Human Paladin
8415
Hit, expertise, and haste all work together. If you value haste, you should be hit and expertise capping, because not capping lowers the effectiveness of haste. It may not be much, but realistically there's no point at which haste will suddenly spike up in value over expertise before the cap, so there's no point in suddenly dropping expertise before the cap.
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