Rogues will make you lose more Subcribers.

90 Worgen Warrior
6865
02/09/2013 02:01 PMPosted by Mafic
Subterfuge was added to counter Halo and RoF. Ironically now with more energy on the PTR it is very potent for openers now over Shadow Focus.


Wasn't that fixed when they made Halo not hit targets in stealth? Now subterfuge is just pretty broken. Also, I don't think there needs to be a counter ability for RoF. The counter is to simply not stand in it.
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90 Undead Rogue
10255
Also Im pretty sure "Rogues" were really the only class with stun when this game was made back in 04 then people complained about it... now look we're at every class has a stun cause of people complaining.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11925
People complained about vanilla stuns because they had no DR. Not even sure if they a trinket back then either.
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90 Undead Rogue
10255
02/09/2013 06:52 PMPosted by Gethrian
People complained about vanilla stuns because they had no DR. Not even sure if they a trinket back then either.


No they came out with trinkets not so long after the game was made but it was a 5 minute cd.
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90 Orc Shaman
13040
02/09/2013 04:36 PMPosted by Strychnine
so its ok for high control classes to have unhealable damage and an escape for every occasion and people think that is balanced? Is it that the general population of WoW just does not want to work for what they get? kinda like the entitlement group in the American population that thinks the world owes them everything .


Also I didn't say it was balanced or fair why on earth do you think I suggested nerfs most of the ones I posted that should've been nerfed are nerfs to damage (toss nerf SV nerf energy nerf.)


My commen twas not directed at you but I see enough people running around trying to defend such as I have stated certain specs and classes having everything. Sad thing is it seems that is the way Blizzards seems to function as of late. They buff the living hell out of things are told endless times during PTR that the stuff is way out of line. Then they turn around and send it to live in that state. Then after a month or so of people !@#$%ing they start to try and tune it. The whole time it is being tuned people playing those classes and specs are screaming thier class is no longer going to be viable, when in fact there is not a thing wrong with the spec or class. Then there are specs in the game that get no attention, are in a sad state and Blizzard will nto even look at those specs.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
4670
02/09/2013 06:48 PMPosted by Karlenna
Subterfuge was added to counter Halo and RoF. Ironically now with more energy on the PTR it is very potent for openers now over Shadow Focus.


Wasn't that fixed when they made Halo not hit targets in stealth? Now subterfuge is just pretty broken. Also, I don't think there needs to be a counter ability for RoF. The counter is to simply not stand in it.


Rain of Fire radius too large to "not stand in it". Halo is actually avoidable while RoF on the other hand has a lower opportunity cost and difficult to avoid.
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90 Human Rogue
4310
02/09/2013 04:28 PMPosted by Lissbanka
so its ok for high control classes to have unhealable damage and an escape for every occasion and people think that is balanced?


An escape for every occasion? Do you just spout stupid stuff that isn't remotely true whenever you want another class nerfed?

Rogues die quicker inside a stun to 2h melee then any class I'm aware of. Which is why the global tourney saw NO teams with a rogue advance, and why a hard switch to the rogue was the right call every time.

Nothing in the current ptr build changes this. With trinket down and possibly even with it up it's game over when one or two melee switch to the rogue.

And yes some of the changes to rogues were not asked for or were needed. They could take out C & D and the changes to ST and even the extra energy. Leave Shadow Focus untouched, prep baseline, allow feint to be used inside of a stun.

Rogues get the survivability they were asking for and ppl will complain less about rogues extra burst.
Edited by Hairyhoudini on 2/9/2013 7:31 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12470
They should not buff sub this way its not right and if they do they need to nerf eviserate's damage open with 5 dot 100k eviserate a few 70k ambush, kindney, dance few more 70k ambush to 100k eviserate.

People might not like assin but at least there is some set up to the damage not as much as there used to be but it takes more then 5 seconds to 100-0 some one.


Yeah, let's play the "I have PvE Gear" or "I have low resil because I gemmed power" game. I kill people in openers all the time even now. If I see someone that I suspect is in PvE gear in a random bg or someone with really low total hp, I've landed ambush crits >90k and easily 130k eviscerates.

However, on geared targets I've seen eviscerate crit for 45k.

Am I supposed to believe that PvP power is suddenly far outscaling PvP Resil on the ptr so that I can now crit for >100k on a geared target?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12470
02/09/2013 06:48 PMPosted by Igivenomercy
Also Im pretty sure "Rogues" were really the only class with stun when this game was made back in 04 then people complained about it... now look we're at every class has a stun cause of people complaining.


Actually most classes have the tools that used to belong to only a few because of arena. Blizzard felt pressured to make a class (i.e. 1 of its 3 specs) viable in arena. This meant that the old niches were bad.
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90 Undead Rogue
10255
Natashya what other class that had a stun like rogue back in 04/05?
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90 Undead Priest
3460
02/09/2013 03:56 PMPosted by Skumfidus
im pretty sure pvp base doesnt take up more then 20% of wows population last time i checked


Considering the state its in..the thumbs down feature for bgs hasn't worked for god knows how long at this point (small thing to fix that hasn't gone done in a looooong time but worth mentioning how long it hasnt been fixed yet)..seeing how much they put into balancing and fixing pvp vs pve stuff...there isnt even a sticky thread on the PTR forum for pvp feedback but 10 pve threads..but a hundred new items added to game with a bunch of pve encounters next patch and more instances and legendary quest lines..pvp is like 1% of the game with the effort/content/work/patches/fixes they put into it..this game has good potential to be considered a top notch pvp game even vs todays newer games but its just a vegetable with what they could really do with pvp for this game if they diverted man power/resources for it and developed pve scenarios around it for once instead.
Edited by Xpotiom on 2/9/2013 9:24 PM PST
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90 Orc Shaman
12475
02/09/2013 02:44 PMPosted by Krampüs
QQ works. Rogue felt weak after S-11 with vial and daggers, duh how could we not? Thanks to the steady pressure of the community with countless posts and constant calls for more it is time to reap the rewards!


This, once people had actually geared up rogues were very good just lacking some survivability. The buff they are getting is huge and bringing them back to where they were with heroic vial and legendaries only now they don't have to PvE for it because it is baseline.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
Req
3350
Alright,you all convinced me - rolling a rogue in 5.2
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90 Undead Mage
7055
actually with enough haste you would get 3 ambushes in 4 seconds. you have to remember that you regen energy even if you use an ability. so 3 second of regen should be able to put you past the point of getting that third ambush in at 156 energy base (180 total for the 3 ambushes).

then wait a few seconds for the kidney shot

then vanish, sap, and reset the fight with full energy.
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90 Human Death Knight
5755
Whooo rogue is 88, I'm set for S13.
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90 Undead Rogue
4445
actually with enough haste you would get 3 ambushes in 4 seconds. you have to remember that you regen energy even if you use an ability. so 3 second of regen should be able to put you past the point of getting that third ambush in at 156 energy base (180 total for the 3 ambushes).

then wait a few seconds for the kidney shot

then vanish, sap, and reset the fight with full energy.


You can't get enough haste and sub reforges out of haste anyways. Even if you could get enough haste to boost energy regen (and again, I don't think you can), you wouldn't if you're reforging properly. Mastery and crit are reforge priorities.
Edited by Crookston on 2/9/2013 10:16 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
2670
Continuing to justify Addypally threads will make you lose more Subscribers
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90 Orc Shaman
13040
02/09/2013 07:30 PMPosted by Hairyhoudini
so its ok for high control classes to have unhealable damage and an escape for every occasion and people think that is balanced?


An escape for every occasion? Do you just spout stupid stuff that isn't remotely true whenever you want another class nerfed?

Rogues die quicker inside a stun to 2h melee then any class I'm aware of. Which is why the global tourney saw NO teams with a rogue advance, and why a hard switch to the rogue was the right call every time.

Nothing in the current ptr build changes this. With trinket down and possibly even with it up it's game over when one or two melee switch to the rogue.

And yes some of the changes to rogues were not asked for or were needed. They could take out C & D and the changes to ST and even the extra energy. Leave Shadow Focus untouched, prep baseline, allow feint to be used inside of a stun.

Rogues get the survivability they were asking for and ppl will complain less about rogues extra burst.

I would assure you a shmmy has far less survivabilty then a rogue. The enahcne shammy has a major lack of defensive CD's. you do not have a cloak or shadow step or vanish. We do nto get a smoke bomb. We have to use our stacks that are a proc to stack to cast minor heals. Not to mention the shear amount of Control that is given to rogues can also act as escapes as well.
In no way DID I say nerf rogues. so do not put words under my name.

Just because you do not agree with what I said doe snto mean it is remotely untrue.
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90 Undead Monk
7505
02/09/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Skumfidus
pvp is what like 1-3% of wow's population


Are you implying all these rogue buffs are for pve?
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