Old transmutes. Why?

90 Draenei Paladin
12715
Can someone please explain to me why BC transmutes need to be on the daily timer? Still.

I can *almost* see Cataclysm transmutes being left on the CD, as it was last expansion.. but BURNING CRUSADE? And the vanilla ones. Iron to gold, mithril to truesilver. Yet the ones that were worth a damn, arcanite, primal might, truegold(but not pyrium!!!!), titanium, the meta gems.. aren't on a cd.

So, to recap:

The following common to rare metal transmutes are NOT on the daily cooldown:

Arcanite bar
Truegold
Titanium bar

The following ARE:

Iron to gold
Mithril to truesilver
Pyrium bar

Note - you need titanium to smelt Titansteel, which has no CD. Felsteel smelt also has no CDD. You need pyrium bars to smelt Truegold. Pyrium has a cd. Truegold does not.

The following elemental transmutes are on the daily CD:

Air to fire
Fire to earth
Earth to life
Water to air
Earth to water
Undeath to water
Water to undeath
Life to earth
Any of the above types I missed from Vanilla

All primal transmutes from BC

All eternal transmutes from Wrath of the Lich King

All volatile transmutes from Cataclysm

The following elemental transmutes are NOT on the daily CD:

Primal Might

The following gem transmutes are on the transmute CD:

All epic gems from Wrath of the Lich King

The following gems are NOT on the transmute CD:

All blue gems from Wrath of the Lich King
All blue gems from Cataclysm
All meta gems

Please explain to me the inconsistencies as well. "Oh, but they want to make certain items profitable still!" Then why the hell did they make the common transmutes have a CD, but the desirable ones(things like Truegold) NOT have a CD? I mean hell, they removed those CDs in the expansion they were released!! Some of these never had a CD to begin with.

I'm mostly complaining because I'm in the process of filling out my recipe book(I have most of the world drop recipes, missing some rep ones and discoveries), and I'm missing a good number of the older transmutes from BC. I figure churn some of those out.. and they're STILL on the daily CD! I tried this before when I went to make a belt for my priest to match her t5 set, and couldn't spare the CD when I was using it for other things before.

IMO, either stick them all back on it, or get rid of it on the older recipes. The one that *really* boggles my mind is the pyrium bar transmute. Seriously? Daily transmute on PYRIUM? Urk.

Mostly ranting. Seriously questioning Blizzard's design here though. I know it's outdated and old content. That's precisely the reason I feel the damned cooldown shouldn't apply to them!

/rant off
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90 Gnome Priest
7725
My understanding is that some things have a cooldown to prevent transmutation masters from making infinite amounts of them through cyclical transmutes. Like, you transmute primal earth into primal water, primal water into air, air into fire, and fire into earth, with transmutation mastery giving you extra primals all along.

What I've always thought they should do is have *separate* cooldowns for each expansion.
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90 Gnome Warrior
11915
02/10/2013 01:58 AMPosted by Icpitl
What I've always thought they should do is have *separate* cooldowns for each expansion.


That would be sensible. I wanna say it would be confusing to display what would and wouldn't get cooled down, but the current design is far more obtuse...

As far as why the rest of the transmutes had cooldowns and why they continue to while others were listed make sense in the context of that expansion.

Arcanite, Primal Might, Titansteel and Truegold were limited to 1/day to limit the availability of what they produced. The restrictions were lifted when the gear became obsolete (so you could just make it for alts quickly) or when the expansion was getting on in years and there were plenty of alchemists around anyway. Meta gems were gated similarly originally, but nowadays they don't want gemming to be that much of a hassle.

The rest were unnecessary to have their restrictions lifted because the transmutes weren't the only source of the product. All the fancy ores, bars, motes, etc. can be mined and smelted normally. Indeed, they may have kept the cooldown so that alchemists didn't become the only real source of the item - Case in point would be Trillium today. I've transmuted a few hundred bars but only smelted a few dozen due to how rare the ore is to come by on its own.

Once their time had passed, there was still no real reason to bother removing their restrictions, since as I said before they were still available from wherever. As is especially true with Vanilla transmutes where they were 1:1, the cooldown might be in place so that for example a gold bar is still always worth more than an Iron one.
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90 Draenei Paladin
12715
My understanding is that some things have a cooldown to prevent transmutation masters from making infinite amounts of them through cyclical transmutes. Like, you transmute primal earth into primal water, primal water into air, air into fire, and fire into earth, with transmutation mastery giving you extra primals all along.


I could see this for current expansion materials... but the old crap? Like, the really really old crap? I wasn't even aware that specialization affected anything before BC.. Never has for me anyways.

Still doesn't explain the inconsistency of transmute types being on the CD.

02/10/2013 03:52 AMPosted by Drunkencrono
Once their time had passed, there was still no real reason to bother removing their restrictions, since as I said before they were still available from wherever. As is especially true with Vanilla transmutes where they were 1:1, the cooldown might be in place so that for example a gold bar is still always worth more than an Iron one.


Except that it's unnecessary. Extremely.

I've leveled JC, Engineering and Blacksmithing a few times without using any of the "rare" ores from the old world. No gold, no truesilver, no silver. Yes, it can be a pain, but when theres none on the AH, then that's what you do.

And yes, you can buy silver contacts on vendors sometimes. The common ore has almost always been worth more than the rare ore in the case of vanilla. Hell, even back then, when the vanilla transmutes were current, I didn't even do them then. The bars were much, MUCH more common in the AH than they are now.

As for "other sources", unless you plan on farming them yourself, you're not likely to find the BC primals you want on the AH around here. Primals aren't used for much while leveling professions until you get to Wrath(and Wrath uses disproportionate amounts of materials in general for many professions) unless you're making transmog gear like Belt of the Long Road(which was the belt in question above).

Removing the cooldowns would take me all of 5 minutes once I found the right section of code for it. It's as simple as commenting out lines of code. If they can dig through it for that one line that puts a CD on something to "limit" the availability of something(see how well that worked for Living Steel? And Imperial Silk for that matter.. I'm swimming in them...) they can take the five freaking minutes to do a line search and comment out the rest of them.
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90 Gnome Warrior
11915
As for "other sources", unless you plan on farming them yourself, you're not likely to find the BC primals you want on the AH around here.


That is the main other source, yes. The transmutations where Alchemy is the only source of the material had their cooldown eliminated. For everything else, the potential still exists to go farm it yourself. Not sure why you feel that Alchemy should be the best way to get any of these things, aside from it being easier.

I think that when the crunch is over, a bar of gold should always be worth more than a bar of iron, which is why the cooldowns existed in the first place. Transmute master works on vanilla stuff, yes.
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90 Draenei Paladin
12715
That is the main other source, yes. The transmutations where Alchemy is the only source of the material had their cooldown eliminated. For everything else, the potential still exists to go farm it yourself. Not sure why you feel that Alchemy should be the best way to get any of these things, aside from it being easier.


Titanium and trillium have no CD. Pyrium does.

Alchemy is not the only source of those ores, yet one of them has a cd, two do not. Your theory is bunk. See: inconsistencies.

02/10/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Drunkencrono
I think that when the crunch is over, a bar of gold should always be worth more than a bar of iron, which is why the cooldowns existed in the first place. Transmute master works on vanilla stuff, yes.


But it's not. And it hasn't since BC. Why? It's not used much. It'll be worth more when there's a demand for it. There really isn't. That's why there's never any on the AH. BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT USED.

Personally, I vendor them. Last time I looked at the price of gold bars being 50s each, when the iron ore is worth twice that, I said screw it, I'm vendoring it. I have stacks of truesilver in my other guild bank that doesn't sell. I've tried selling primals... most of them don't sell. Like, at all.

I don't see why you're arguing in favor of old materials being a pain in the tail to get either, unless you've found some lucrative market that doesn't exist on any of the servers I've played on.

Ever since they removed needing primal might, for example, for the transmutation master quest, primals haven't sold for crap.

And I'm trying to get discoveries. That aren't guaranteed. That I somehow managed to not get of doing them daily for over a year in BC. -_-

Old content is old, get rid of the CD.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6525
02/10/2013 01:40 AMPosted by Phayle
Can someone please explain to me why BC transmutes need to be on the daily timer? Still.


Because Blizzard is keeping them on it still.

Its a dead issue.

They already know they are still on it. At this time, they still want them on it.

It may change some day. Suggesting it is moot.
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86 Dwarf Priest
8465
My understanding is that some things have a cooldown to prevent transmutation masters from making infinite amounts of them through cyclical transmutes. Like, you transmute primal earth into primal water, primal water into air, air into fire, and fire into earth, with transmutation mastery giving you extra primals all along.

What I've always thought they should do is have *separate* cooldowns for each expansion.


ive not done any BC xmautes since I did em for discoveries but cata ones do not give extras due to mastery

mispellings due to drunkneness
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90 Night Elf Rogue
FDC
8710
02/10/2013 01:40 AMPosted by Phayle
All epic gems from Wrath of the Lich King


I hope they never take this off the timer. If they do, it will ruin the LK epic market...which is thriving on my server.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
14525
02/11/2013 12:14 PMPosted by Omegatherion
but cata ones do not give extras due to mastery

Transmuting living elements can indeed give you extra, though it's usually much less than the 15 required to do said transmute.
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80 Blood Elf Death Knight
11715
For the most part the transmutes being on the cooldown doesnt really matter and they have already removed it where it was a potentially limiting factor, the argument you need to make isnt why dont they do it but why should they do it - the burden of proof is essentially on you to explain why Blizzard should bother.

The cyclical nature of BC transmutes means this one (which seems to be the only one the OP really cares about) is unlikely ever to reverse due to the potentially infinite profits (also based on the OP the Vanilla elemental transmutes are also cyclical and so need a CD).
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90 Orc Warrior
16385
At best I figure it's some kind of coding issue, there is just no way to determine if a transmute is from a certain expansion. Since the masteries work on all transmutes, you can proc additional Arcanite if you were so inclined.

I fully understand the need for a CD on transmutes to prevent transmuting in a circle, which can be done with vanilla, TBC and wrath elements. Proc extras every transmute would be stupid OP.

But the CD being shared between expansions seems rather silly. Why should transmute Iron to gold (vanilla) (not that I would ever actually use this one, hehe) share a CD with Transmute Eternal Earth to Eternal Water (wrath) or Transmute Living Elements (cata) or Living Steel (MOP)
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