New SoJ and the Ramifications

1 Human Paladin
0
Street :(Justice is much more complicated. It was intended as a PvP seal, but the damage loss is so significant and the snare just not that valuable (which is ironic when you consider Ret's history of not being able to catch things)

This was mainly because Kalgon & Co. didn't provide any dispel protection to Blessing of Freedom along with BoF's long 30 second cd which allowed plenty of room for being kited

Street :(Having a passive snare for Ret that's available all the time with no damage trade-off is just not something we're going to do. Why not just apply a snare when you enter PvP at that point?)

We have had Judgement of the Just a baseline snare (with no damage loss trade off)
One could also argue that the Original SoJ chance on hit to stun and provided a 100% base speed dbuff was more powerful then the live 5.1 50% snare from SoJ

Zero synergy with Dot Cleaves was already a problem because censures Ramp up time from stacking along with no way to AE spread censures dot + ticks pretty weak on resil.
Healers all but Holy Pal (monk idk) provide better DoT synergy then the actual ret dps spec

Running SoJ will leave Paladins (monks idk) as the only class in the game without atleast two Dot/Bleed mechanics and losing Censure leaves the class with none

I also lose stealth protection running SoJ from the loss of censure

Does Kalgon & Co. truly believe this change will help get more Rets into RBG's,
Its 1 step foward 4 steps back

SoJ seems to be steadily getting worse over time

If you sugarcoat dogshiit, it's still dogshiit under all that sugar
Edited by Hlypowahalp on 2/10/2013 2:30 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9480
hmm I dont want anything from a dogs butt....but the new soj is going to be sick. Sure it sucks losing the snare...Perhaps they should just make a glyph for the 5.1 justice to replace to new justice and then everyone is happy. As for me, I will gladly take some 100k TVs, thanks.
Edited by Thantore on 2/10/2013 11:48 AM PST
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02/10/2013 11:28 AMPosted by Thantore
hmm I dont want anything from a dogs !@#$....but the new soj is going to be sick. Sure it sucks losing the snare...Perhaps they should just make a glyph for the 5.1 justice to replace to new justice and then everyone is happy. As for me, I will gladly take some 100k TVs, thanks.


If you spec into Burden of Guilt, you're not even losing the snare.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9480
02/10/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Flintte
hmm I dont want anything from a dogs !@#$....but the new soj is going to be sick. Sure it sucks losing the snare...Perhaps they should just make a glyph for the 5.1 justice to replace to new justice and then everyone is happy. As for me, I will gladly take some 100k TVs, thanks.


If you spec into Burden of Guilt, you're not even losing the snare.


well no, but your losing out on a 30 second stun. BoG and FoJ just do not compete. 1 min on a stun in pvp is an eternity, especially when you really dont have much else in the way of cc.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5930
02/10/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Flintte
hmm I dont want anything from a dogs !@#$....but the new soj is going to be sick. Sure it sucks losing the snare...Perhaps they should just make a glyph for the 5.1 justice to replace to new justice and then everyone is happy. As for me, I will gladly take some 100k TVs, thanks.


If you spec into Burden of Guilt, you're not even losing the snare.
Noone's gonna spec into BoG over fist of justice. BoG should be baseline.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9480
02/10/2013 11:48 AMPosted by Topples


If you spec into Burden of Guilt, you're not even losing the snare.
Noone's gonna spec into BoG over fist of justice. BoG should be baseline.


bog baseline is probably too strong. The problem actually lies in the fact that outside of that single tier of talents, our cc is the most pathetic of anyone in the game. We need more baseline cc and utility. It would not be so bad to forgo FoJ if it wasnt our only strong point atm.
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85 Draenei Shaman
5930
Noone's gonna spec into BoG over fist of justice. BoG should be baseline.


bog baseline is probably too strong. The problem actually lies in the fact that outside of that single tier of talents, our cc is the most pathetic of anyone in the game. We need more baseline cc and utility. It would not be so bad to forgo FoJ if it wasnt our only strong point atm.
People need to stop acting like a snare is so OP, every melee should have one period including ret and it should be baseline.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9480


bog baseline is probably too strong. The problem actually lies in the fact that outside of that single tier of talents, our cc is the most pathetic of anyone in the game. We need more baseline cc and utility. It would not be so bad to forgo FoJ if it wasnt our only strong point atm.
People need to stop acting like a snare is so OP, every melee should have one period including ret and it should be baseline.


I dont think having a snare baseline is OP at all.

having a 40 yard ranged, undispellable, 8 second long 50% slow as part of our rotation may be A BIT strong.
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1 Human Paladin
0
02/10/2013 11:51 AMPosted by Thantore
bog baseline is probably too strong. The problem actually lies in the fact that outside of that single tier of talents, our cc is the most pathetic of anyone in the game. We need more baseline cc and utility. It would not be so bad to forgo FoJ if it wasnt our only strong point atm.


If BoG was a baseline aoe snare i would say it should require a talent , which we had baseline ae snare up until the Seal Cleave nerf in 5.1 with HotR healing with SoI . HotR would aoe Justice cleave all targets

What it all boils down to though is what other dps and tank specs require a talent to snare ?
I cant think of 1 Dps or tank spec that doesn't have a glyph'd or baseline snare other then Ret

No other spec is asked to lose 100% up time on its single target stun in order to apply a snare
Edited by Hlypowahalp on 2/10/2013 4:05 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10865
02/10/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Flintte
hmm I dont want anything from a dogs !@#$....but the new soj is going to be sick. Sure it sucks losing the snare...Perhaps they should just make a glyph for the 5.1 justice to replace to new justice and then everyone is happy. As for me, I will gladly take some 100k TVs, thanks.


If you spec into Burden of Guilt, you're not even losing the snare.
That's the problem with the change, it "forces" us to take talents if we want to remain viable as a "melee". Picking BoG over any other talent on that tier cuts our synergy with other arena teams by a lot, due to the loss of CC to set up kills/stop damage from the opposing team during CDs, etc.

(please note the quotes around forces, as it's very loosely said)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
02/10/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Flintte
If you spec into Burden of Guilt, you're not even losing the snare.

Normally you're a pretty sane guy, but wow. A mundane snare shouldn't even be in the talent tree, it's offensive.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6950
02/10/2013 02:24 PMPosted by Elidra
If you spec into Burden of Guilt, you're not even losing the snare.

Normally you're a pretty sane guy, but wow. A mundane snare shouldn't even be in the talent tree, it's offensive.


a ranged snare on a melee class that can remove all roots/snares with no cooldown is hardly "mundane"
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1 Human Paladin
0
02/10/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Plibt
a ranged snare on a melee class that can remove all roots/snares with no cooldown is hardly "mundane"


Look up BoG's tooltip , its a range snare from 1 ability, its cooldown is tied into judgement which is on a 6 second cd and has nothing to do with providing immunity from roots & snares
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
02/10/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Plibt
a ranged snare on a melee class that can remove all roots/snares with no cooldown is hardly "mundane"

You can list off various abilities of any class and sound just as impressive, it doesn't prove anything.

It also only relates to maybe half the use of a snare.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6950
02/10/2013 02:47 PMPosted by Hlypowahalp
a ranged snare on a melee class that can remove all roots/snares with no cooldown is hardly "mundane"


Look up BoG's tooltip , its a range snare from 1 ability, its cooldown is tied into judgement which is on a 6 second cd and has nothing to do with providing immunity from roots & snares


what's emancipate? and you act like a 6 second cooldown is long, pretty sure you can lower it with haste
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90 Night Elf Druid
6950
02/10/2013 02:48 PMPosted by Elidra
a ranged snare on a melee class that can remove all roots/snares with no cooldown is hardly "mundane"

You can list off various abilities of any class and sound just as impressive, it doesn't prove anything.

It also only relates to maybe half the use of a snare.


no other melee class can do this besides feral druids, except their ranged snare doesn't give them combo points, unlike bog talented judgement which lets ret kite anything easily while being able to heal themselves at the same time
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1 Human Paladin
0
02/10/2013 03:06 PMPosted by Plibt
no other melee class can do this besides feral druids, except their ranged snare doesn't give them combo points, unlike bog talented judgement which lets ret kite anything easily while being able to heal themselves at the same time


All other melee classes will simply use their Gap closer or deathgrip and reapply a passive snare if needed.

This shouldn't be an issue for Massive Mobility classes such as druids as long as play properly and 6 sec cyclone so i'm out judgement range or you can knock back daze, silence and root which will lockout every range ability in my toolkit
Edited by Hlypowahalp on 2/10/2013 3:19 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
6950
02/10/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Hlypowahalp
no other melee class can do this besides feral druids, except their ranged snare doesn't give them combo points, unlike bog talented judgement which lets ret kite anything easily while being able to heal themselves at the same time


All other melee classes will simply use their Gap closer or deathgrip and reapply a passive snare if needed


you have 2 freedoms and can spam emancipate if they really want to waste all thier resources keeping you slowed, all the while you're SPRINTING away from them as they're permanently slowed from ranged while you heal yourself

bog is amazing, is it better than 30 second hoj? that's up to the player
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1 Human Paladin
0
If ret mobility is posing a problem for you, You're not playing the Balance druid correctly

All the emancipate spam is a total waste of GcD's, while your damaging me i'm forced to spam a key (eman) that doesn't increase my damage, heal me or do damage to you

The ability to chain FoJ stun/cc is far superior then a range single target snare

Im sure BoG/Justice combo gets under your skin cause no other melee can counter Druid speed except the ret spec'd into BoG/SoJ. Thats even more of a reason for the devs to add JudgementsoftheJust

Your judgement now passively snares your target for 50%
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90 Night Elf Druid
6950
wait, where was i ever complaining about rets mobility? i think it's fine.

The ability to chain FoJ stun/cc is far superior then a range single target snare


then choose foj and stop complaining
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