Balanced Random Battlegrounds.

90 Undead Warlock
7580
02/12/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Piñata
This will stop you from using voice chat.


lolwut? How would it stop voice chat?
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92 Tauren Death Knight
8015
Well, fine, then. Here's another idea to shoot down. Just like they did with the gear sets, steal someone's addon. I'm sure they could just suck oQueue into their code and make it baseline, while further breaking oQueue itself for randoms.

Then, you should all be happy, sans your voice chat advantage, and your premade system will be available for everyone else to use, too, on an even footing.

No? I'm sure there must be objections to that, too...

objections? nah. by the copyright folks would have a fun time with it ('stealing' being the issue...)
Edited by Tinymasher on 2/12/2013 10:34 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
8905
02/11/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Kiaransali
oh wow, people with sense DO exist in forums. thank you for restoring my faith
So disagreeing with you means we lack sense? Amazing.

Welcome to the WoW forums.
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92 Tauren Death Knight
8015
It won't be fair until it's absorbed, and oQueue as an independent addon is broken. This will stop you from using voice chat.

it won't be absorbed without some communication... then of course it may.

btw, you do know there is a mechanism in-game for finding raids and other groups... right? and yes, no one uses it.

also, blizz has in-game voice support... another thing people don't use.

edit:
and what's unfair about a free addon? seriously, wtf. 'fair' ... LOL... only idiots want all outcomes to be 'fair'
Edited by Tinymasher on 2/12/2013 10:40 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
7580
If you can't join as group, or queue as group, then entering voice chat with a group will be pointless. I suppose you could, and talk to people on vent, but they would not be in your current bg.


You could still manually put people in your group, get on vent and countdown ques... there's really no way to stop that, other than staggering quetimes. I don't see Blizz doing that.
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92 Tauren Death Knight
8015
If they integrate oQueue into their system, you will not be premaking groups. You will join their queue, with what oQueue supports now, res levels and such. But, you will not be grouped beforehand, knowing the members of your group. You will just have a guarantee that members of your group have criteria that the 'leader' selected.

If you can't join as group, or queue as group, then entering voice chat with a group will be pointless. I suppose you could, and talk to people on vent, but they would not be in your current bg.

you're describing the existing queuing system that bots & bads have a field day with. it's a failure.
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92 Tauren Death Knight
8015
You could still manually put people in your group, get on vent and countdown ques... there's really no way to stop that, other than staggering quetimes. I don't see Blizz doing that.

regular bgs have been dying for 1-2 yrs... people dread going into them and look at them as a forced grind for gear.

people have started to have fun in bgs again. if blizz makes a move to keep people from grouping together, they might as well just shut it all down.

personally, i think the same limitations they push on AV they should force on heroic raids. you can only join a raid with 5 ppl... the rest would come from a random queue
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
You will join their queue, with what oQueue supports now, res levels and such. But, you will not be grouped beforehand, knowing the members of your group.


So I could no longer queue for casual PvP with my wife?

Sounds legit...
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90 Undead Mage
1935
02/12/2013 10:45 AMPosted by Idaelus
So I could no longer queue for casual PvP with my wife?
The term "casual" is often misused. I am a casual player and my definition is apparently much different than others that believe casual means bad gear, inability (or refusal) to group with others and a sense of entitlement (i.e. equal footing with the "elitists" who according to them play 12 hours a day).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
The term "casual" is often misused. I am a casual player and my definition is apparently much different than others that believe casual means bad gear, inability (or refusal) to group with others and a sense of entitlement (i.e. equal footing with the "elitists" who according to them play 12 hours a day).


Yes, each person is going to have their own definition of that word in the context of WoW.

The queue separation ideas bother me. Solo only random BGs: I should not have to gather an entire RBG team to play a BG with my wife. If there is iLvL separation, I would not be able to play with her. I PvP more than she does, and I do RBGs and Arenas. She doesn't like the pressure that she perceives in these two PvP outlets, so her gear tends to lag behind mine.
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90 Undead Mage
1935
The queue separation ideas bother me. Solo only random BGs: I should not have to gather an entire RBG team to play a BG with my wife
I shouldn't have to deal with 70-90% of my team being bots, awful players or ignoring objectives. That is what I typically get if I solo queue and that is why a strictly solo queue is a bad idea.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
shouldn't have to deal with 70-90% of my team being bots, awful players or ignoring objectives. That is what I typically get if I solo queue and that is why a strictly solo queue is a bad idea.


No, you shouldn't have to deal with bots. I report them when I see them.

"Bads" and other things? I understand that when I join a random BG, there are going to be players better than me and worse than me. When I want complete control over my team, I'm in rateds. I wish more players did want to win for the sake of winning. That's how I play. That's how you play. That's how all the people in my guild and on my Real-ID list play.
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90 Undead Mage
1935
OK perfect example... did a random last night (EotS). Practically the whole team zerged bases all match... took 1 base, left it completely undefended to go to another base. I am the type of player that doesn't leave a base undefended so I was the lone defender during most of the match. I would hold the base for a while & then get zerged by 5+ alliance (I would call inc but usually not get help).

I asked my team several times to defend what they take, but of course they didn't listen. Near the end of the match I thank them for being bad & wasting my time & on cue one of them makes a comment about my damage being lower than theirs (which of course is because I was on defense a good part of the match & got 5 on 1'ed a few times). If I could have reached through the monitor and choked that kid I would have. Typical BG hero mentality.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
OK perfect example... did a random last night (EotS). Practically the whole team zerged bases all match... took 1 base, left it completely undefended to go to another base. I am the type of player that doesn't leave a base undefended so I was the lone defender during most of the match. I would hold the base for a while & then get zerged by 5+ alliance (I would call inc but usually not get help).

I asked my team several times to defend what they take, but of course they didn't listen. Near the end of the match I thank them for being bad & wasting my time & on cue one of them makes a comment about my damage being lower than theirs (which of course is because I was on defense a good part of the match & got 5 on 1'ed a few times). If I could have reached through the monitor and choked that kid I would have. Typical BG hero mentality.


You know I agree with you on a good majority of this subject, right?

Bots will always exist. Bots can be controlled, by Blizzard. I should not be tasked with controlling them. Blizzard should be handling them better than they do.

Bad players will always exist. There is no way to remove them. That kid that irritated you so much in that match? He wouldn't bother me that much. He will never improve. I cannot make him improve. If he wants to be blissfully bad, that's his business. I will probably not have to play with him again in any case.

I worry about what I can control. I can control my play, my gear/chants/reforges/etc, and up to four of my teammates in normal BGs. I know, I know, I could control all or most of them if I wished. I don't agree with the limitation that was placed in game for only groups 5 or less could queue for normal BGs. I understand the reasoning why it was placed, and as long as that limitation is there I will respect it.

I am against iLvL matching, because it has the potential to limit some of the fun I have with my wife or some of my real ID friends. I ran some BGs with Eisenhorne last night (He's a beast BTW, much better than me). With iLvL brackets I would not have had the opportunity. I am against solo only queues for normal BGs for the same reasons. iLvL matching would probably be beneficial to me overall, I started late. Still against it.

These changes, in the name of "fairness" make the game more difficult to enjoy, and would probably lengthen queue times to boot. And the kicker is I don't think games would change at all. Because bots and poor play will still be there. Sometimes, sometimes though, a gem of a game appears in the random BG mess. And those are the best.

*edited because I fail at the difference between to and too :/
Edited by Idaelus on 2/12/2013 4:00 PM PST
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90 Undead Monk
11130
I don't need longer wait times to carry every bg I am in regardless of gear. Equalizing healers or tanks does not solve the problem, i.e. that 99% of people who play this game are certifiably terrible is the problem and only individuals can solve that issue.
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60 Human Death Knight
900
02/12/2013 03:58 PMPosted by Idaelus
I ran some BGs with Eisenhorne last night (He's a beast BTW, much better than me). With iLvL brackets I would not have had the opportunity.


Not going to get into the rest of the whole solo-only queue mutation debate because grouping will never be eliminated, only limited - but i would assume that grouping with a higher ilevel member (like Eisenhorne) would bump the entire group into the upper queue, so one could still have the opportunity - even if it meant suffering a disadvantage. They will never disable players from grouping with some of their friends - ever.

But grouping with "too many" friends imbalances the BG system as they have it, and therefore was limited.

It's not perfect at all, i agree. Seldom is. But the 5-limit was reasonable action for the current system overall.

And any ilevel-based queue would not stop you from grouping - only possibly from facing the "proper" ilevel.
But they dont do it that way in RBG... so maybe not. You can still group with higher ratings and MMR. Right?

Even tho matches are supposed to be "separated" based on rating/MMR?

I would foresee an ilevel-based queue being some aberration of that. I dunno.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
But grouping with "too many" friends imbalances the BG system as they have it, and therefore was limited.

It's not perfect at all, i agree. Seldom is. But the 5-limit was reasonable action for the current system overall.

And any ilevel-based queue would not stop you from grouping - only possibly from facing the "proper" ilevel.
But they dont do it that way in RBG... so maybe not. You can still group with higher ratings and MMR. Right?

Even tho matches are supposed to be "separated" based on rating/MMR?

I would foresee an ilevel-based queue being some aberration of that. I dunno.


Like I said, I understand the reasoning behind the 5-man limit, I don't have to like it, but I do abide by it. (I abide, like The Dude.)

As for the queue separation, I would hope you are right. I would have to trust that Blizzard would implement it this way... but who knows? They have made decisions that have made me scratch my head before.
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60 Human Death Knight
900
02/12/2013 06:54 PMPosted by Idaelus
I abide, like The Dude


Ya, i got that. Just expounding on your seeming concern that WoW PvP may head into a no-group system. If we understand why they limited it to 5 then we should understand that it will never be removed completely.

=)
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