Why is my priest always oom (pvp)?

90 Human Priest
5485
My priest is the last of my 4 healers to ready 90 (sorry Bliz but leveling is too horrible for me to get a healing monk to 90). Compared to my pally, shaman, druid at the same gear level I'm just constantly oom in bgs/arena. I *never* worry about mana on the other 3 healers.

I get that when I had mana burn the trade off was crappy mana regen, but now...? Does it get better? Is there an explanation for this discrepancy that I've just overlooked?
Edited by Noxelle on 2/10/2013 3:59 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Because your main heal in PvP (that would be PW: Shield) is only returning 15302 mana via Rapture every 12 seconds, and it costs 18k+ in Inner Fire. Plus, all the extra bubbles you have to put out in between? Are just draining your mana like no tomorrow.

It isn't a discrepancy. It's deliberate.
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90 Human Priest
5485
Thanks, that's kind of what i thought. So all qq aside, how am I supposed to heal as disc in bgs and 2s/3s?

I have the feeling my dps is supposed to counterbalance my lack of mana longevity in arena, but in bgs... it's crazy, I feel like I spend half the game drinking. I've been cutting back on bubbling people (to the detriment of my team) but even with mana regen on par with my druid/shaman/pally I oom much faster and recover slower.

I feel like I'm overlooking something really obvious.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
I wouldn't say it's "deliberate" that Disc's mana in PVP is so bad. It certainly needs to get fixed, but such a fix is difficult as Disc PVE is already stupidly overpowered w/r/t mana regen, and any fixes like simply making your spells cheaper will just make Disc PVE even worse in that regard.

You're not overlooking anything, Disc regen is just not good in PVP.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Thanks, that's kind of what i thought. So all qq aside, how am I supposed to heal as disc in bgs and 2s/3s?

I have the feeling my dps is supposed to counterbalance my lack of mana longevity in arena, but in bgs... it's crazy, I feel like I spend half the game drinking. I've been cutting back on bubbling people (to the detriment of my team) but even with mana regen on par with my druid/shaman/pally I oom much faster and recover slower.

I feel like I'm overlooking something really obvious.


When I have been bullied into doing PvP stuff (generally for the legendary questline and I had someone pester me into doing arenas just cuz), my main function appears to be 1) Fearing People and 2) Crying.

I may just be bad at the new PvP, but we have 0 offensive ability at this point, and we're squishy as hell with the way PvP Power scales. I don't entirely know how you're running out of mana, since half the time I never even get the opportunity to heal - I'm too busy being stunned or otherwise CC'd, or chased around the map by burly DPS in plate.
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90 Human Priest
5485
Mahourai you're definitely right. The flipside is that I charged into LFR, spammed Holy Fire/Smite with Mending and Cascade on cooldown and topped meters (lol meters in LFR I know) without ever looking at my mana. I don't quite get how priests can be so topsy turvy in terms of mana regen pvp vs pve, it's really frustrating.

Tiriél, I've seen your excellent contributions to priest and healing in these forums. I'm pretty confident if you enjoyed pvp you'd be great at it. If it encourages you at all I can live for a long time in my upgraded Dreadful gear, but that's playing with my ex whom I've played with on and off since TBC so we know each other pretty well. Priests with somebody watching their back are incredibly fun to play... for 2 minutes. :( If you ever go Alliance poke me, I've got your back. :)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/10/2013 07:58 PMPosted by Noxelle
Tiriél, I've seen your excellent contributions to priest and healing in these forums. I'm pretty confident if you enjoyed pvp you'd be great at it. If it encourages you at all I can live for a long time in my upgraded Dreadful gear, but that's playing with my ex whom I've played with on and off since TBC so we know each other pretty well. Priests with somebody watching their back are incredibly fun to play... for 2 minutes. :( If you ever go Alliance poke me, I've got your back. :)


Hey, Noxelle, thanks for the compliment. I don't like feeling useless, and I suffer from the healer ailment of always thinking there was ONE MORE THING I could have done to save everyone. :-\

Re: mana being topsy-turvy, I think that's a result of poor design with regards to Rapture. Because it scales crazy well with Spirit, the fact that you have very limited Spirit on PvP gear really hurts.
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90 Human Priest
12845
Cause Priest mana regen in pvp is umm ... pretty bad. In order for me to do the same amount of healing an Rdruid can do, I need to drink twice as much,
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90 Draenei Priest
12180
We just have bad regen or something, I'm not even sure. I haven't done all that much arena this season, and like no rbgs, but even in "just for points" 2's if I'm paired against a team with a paladin or a shaman, or even a druid who is any good, they can put out way more healing than I am, while sitting nicely at 90% mp like it's nothing.

And that's running with a spirit trinket, mind bender as best as possible, etc. I wish I could go at it a lot more seriously but my pve server severely lacks fiery pvp players and with my absolute lack of offense I just feel useless.
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90 Human Priest
13730
because it isn't 5.2 yet
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/11/2013 10:35 AMPosted by Pandabearr
because it isn't 5.2 yet


Don't think that 5.2 is doing anything to help our survivability or our offensive ability.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17295
Isn't also because blizzard is mean and doesn't put enough spirit on PvP gear?
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90 Human Priest
5485
02/11/2013 12:19 PMPosted by Tiriél
Don't think that 5.2 is doing anything to help our survivability or our offensive ability.

I'm hopeful that resil no longer affecting the amount healed through atonement means I'll be slightly more free to smite/PS:Solace. :)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/11/2013 03:39 PMPosted by Noxelle
Don't think that 5.2 is doing anything to help our survivability or our offensive ability.

I'm hopeful that resil no longer affecting the amount healed through atonement means I'll be slightly more free to smite/PS:Solace. :)


How is that even going to work?
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90 Human Priest
5485
02/11/2013 04:03 PMPosted by Tiriél
How is that even going to work?

The damage done will be mitigated by resil, so say I would have hit for 10k but resil knocks it down to 6k, that's all my target takes. But the healing isn't affected, so I heal the full 5k that an unmitigated 10k hit would have generated.

Priests are super fun, regardless.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/11/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Noxelle
How is that even going to work?

The damage done will be mitigated by resil, so say I would have hit for 10k but resil knocks it down to 6k, that's all my target takes. But the healing isn't affected, so I heal the full 5k that an unmitigated 10k hit would have generated.

Priests are super fun, regardless.


Erm...Atonement heals for 100% of the damage done. So does that mean you'd get 10k out of it? Why would you only get 50%? Unless you're talking about healing yourself...
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90 Draenei Priest
12180
02/11/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Noxelle
Priests are super fun, regardless.


Super fun... in pvp? Yeah. I've not been feeling that.
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just play boringcleave, healer/healer/dk

I've seen it as disc rsham dk, disc rdruid dk, and disc hpal dk

I'm sure it will start working with disc mw dk since disc and mw are dpshealers. could turn out to be the best double healer comp in 3s.

I think I even saw a disc mw demolock/destro lock this season that pushed above 2.2k
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35 Blood Elf Priest
10835
Pvp gear is lower on spirit which is what rapture scales with. Disc has low healing output when you take away your absorbs. You have to spam more real heals when you are fighting against a team with an active purger. So to keep up with the amount of burst in the game you will oom.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12630
It is a well-established fact that Discipline is the worst healer in PvP right now. There are several blue posts that talk about how poorly Discipline does in group PvP situations. They seem to do okay in 2v2 Arenas, but that's the extent of it.

The biggest problems with Discipline in PvP right now are:

1. Resilience made Discipline cooldowns like PW: Barrier and Pain Suppression much less effective because of diminishing returns. Pain Suppression decreasing damage by 40% for 8 seconds used to be a huge survival advantage in PvP. Now, everybody has a baseline resilience that decreases damage by 40% forever, making the 8 second buff pointless.

2. Intellect increasing mana pools had a much larger impact on Discipline mana regen than originally thought, and it crippled them when mana pools became set at a specific number.

There are a lot of changes coming in 5.2 which are designed to increase Discipline's ability to survive in PvP. Here's a short list of all the ones I can remember off the top of my head:

1. Focused Will reduces damage taken by 15%, stacking 2 times to 30%.
2. Spirit Shell shields are becoming un-dispellable.
3. Angelic Feathers duration is increased by 50% to 6 seconds each.
4. PW: Shield mana cost is being reduced significantly, and the absorb increased.
5. Atonement will no longer take Resilience into account when healing. So if you smite somebody for 15,000 damage and they have 50% resilience, Atonement will heal a nearby player for 30,000.
6. Holy Fire is becoming an instant cast spell.
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