Minimum amount of DPS for MSV 10m normal?

90 Troll Mage
15205
02/11/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Isiildur
Yes, I thought I already answered this.


Just making sure we had the same definition of being carried. All I can say is I'm glad I don't play with you.

02/11/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Isiildur
"Not liking the guys gear" would be a perfectly valid reason not to take him as it is unenchanted.


No completely wrong once again. A person can not like a person wearing pvp gear but that doesn't make it right. The reasons why he doesn't like the persons gear is what matters in this argument but the statement "not liking the guys gear" is not always right.

@ Fatzert, you should be able to get a cheaper enchant for your weapon for fairly cheap and it is still good.
Reply Quote
Can probably pull 60-80k in that gear raid buffed.

Raid leader is probably oblivious. Id rather take you over someone with higher DPS if you can handle mechanics well
Reply Quote
10 Draenei Paladin
30
Laughing my god damn !@# off at "person doing 1% less damage is being carried". Only all-star world first worldoflog rank 1 parsers posting on RnD, yo! What magical world do you people live in where all your classes/specs pull the exact same DPS?

The average crappy guild (which is the guild OP is in) have people without gear enchants and $%^- most of the time. If he does almost 50k on the dummy (this is retarded btw, some classes do less on dummies than other classes because they are more reliant on group buffs than others), he would be fine damage wise starting MSV. Whether he can do mechanics and whatnot is a different story, but that's not to be decided until the guy gets to raid.

You most likely didn't get taken not cause of your DPS on the dummy (I hope so, otherwise your GM is dumb), nor your unenchanted/not heroic dungeon gear. Most likely they have 10 people they are comfortable with from their first week and opted to go with them instead.

I highly suggest working on your gear and reading up and researching the fights as much as you can so that when you DO get a chance to go in, you can prove your worth. That's of course, if finding another guild isn't an option and you want to be part of their roster.
Edited by Lightstruck on 2/11/2013 9:03 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
16820
If you think your numbers were fine on the target dummy and your gm was wrong just sim it and show him.

Simcraft isn't limited to just raid scenario dps. You can choose target dummy, disable all but your own buffs, and you have 4 different skill levels to choose from as well.

Actually, if anything, the target dummy is the closest you're ever going to get to see how well you perform your rotation/priority without the outside of effects of raid mechanics hindering you.

Heck, I'll run it for ya.

Edit for results

The stand in fire skill(lowest) -43k

The elite(highest)-45k

So, going by that seems that you know your rotation well and your performing well for the gear you're in.

There is one thing to note though, those numbers are of an average 7 min fight. I don't know how long you attacked the dummy in game, but if it's substantially shorter then that, your in game number is abit inflated, being that, the shorter the length you attack the dummy the larger percentage of time under cds, which leads to higher average numbers. Though, not sure on this, I don't recall ferals being an overly reliant cd spec.

Also, it is simcraft, which doesn't always have priorities done well for every spec. However, still a good tool for measuring.

Another interesting thing to note is the difference between performing almost flawlessly to making mistakes often in your rotation/priority. It's not overly significant, which lends to the argument that knowing the fights and their mechanics and being able to keep up with that rotation while all that is going on is far more important. Which is the greatest of things gained from beating the hell out of the dummies, muscle memory.
Edited by Brugavino on 2/11/2013 10:11 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
02/11/2013 06:16 AMPosted by Fatzert
Sorry guys, but when I posted this I still had my pvp gear on. My real gear is about 473ilvl, and I replaced the pvp gear with a couple LFR pieces and some heroic pieces. Some of my items still aren't enchanted because I currently don't have enough gold to buy the enchants/mats.


I'll seriously mail you gold. I have a ton parked on that server that does nothing for me.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
7525
02/11/2013 10:08 AMPosted by Firestyle
Sorry guys, but when I posted this I still had my pvp gear on. My real gear is about 473ilvl, and I replaced the pvp gear with a couple LFR pieces and some heroic pieces. Some of my items still aren't enchanted because I currently don't have enough gold to buy the enchants/mats.


I'll seriously mail you gold. I have a ton parked on that server that does nothing for me.

Can you be so kind to do that please? That will really help me out :)
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
02/11/2013 05:00 AMPosted by Hiroran
Your "rule of thumb" doesn't really match up with reality.


Oh, no, it does line up with reality

If someones incapable of killing a boss without people who are better than them in the group, they are being carried.

When I join a 5 man at Armsman thats wiped 4 times with their previous dps, and I do 150k and kill him before his whirlwind, the group is being carried in every sense of the word.

I know you would say "NO THEY ALL DID GOOD!@#! PLAYERBASE IMPROVING", but take the Sarosha hat off for a minute and think about it.

Replacing people below a boss' threshold is how you improve. Learn that from a LOT of pugging this tier (Finally 16/16 pugging~)
Edited by Postonforums on 2/11/2013 3:04 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
15205
02/11/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Postonforums
I know you would say "NO THEY ALL DID GOOD!@#! PLAYERBASE IMPROVING", but take the Sarosha hat off for a minute and think about it.


You really dont even know what those words mean do you?

Playerbase improving =/= playerbase being good. You seem to think otherwise. Why would I call a group that is wiping on a 5 man heroic boss good?

02/11/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Postonforums
If someones incapable of killing a boss without people who are better than them in the group, they are being carried.


I simply disagree based on the severe negative connotation of the word 'carry'. Technically it is true but only if being carried isn't a bad thing. Which if you agree with that then yes they are being carried, but they are not being carried in the sense that Isiildur said earlier that he would judge someone very negatively based on 1% less of what the rest of the group was doing.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
02/11/2013 04:24 PMPosted by Hiroran
I simply disagree based on the severe negative connotation of the word 'carry'. Technically it is true but only if being carried isn't a bad thing. Which if you agree with that then yes they are being carried, but they are not being carried in the sense that Isiildur said earlier that he would judge someone very negatively based on 1% less of what the rest of the group was doing.


Being carried is a negative conotation.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
15205
02/11/2013 04:30 PMPosted by Postonforums
I simply disagree based on the severe negative connotation of the word 'carry'. Technically it is true but only if being carried isn't a bad thing. Which if you agree with that then yes they are being carried, but they are not being carried in the sense that Isiildur said earlier that he would judge someone very negatively based on 1% less of what the rest of the group was doing.


Being carried is a negative conotation.


Exactly, being 1% weaker then everyone else in your group isn't a bad thing. Its not ideal but its not bad either.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
02/11/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Hiroran
Exactly, being 1% weaker then everyone else in your group isn't a bad thing. Its not ideal but its not bad either.


Being worse than someone is always bad.
It's what drives players to be better.

People who are below a boss kills threshold should strive to not be below it, especially for the first normal boss of a tier, where they are completely in control of their gearing.
Edited by Postonforums on 2/11/2013 4:49 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
15205
And I disagree, it once again depends on the circumstances. If I am 1% lower then the best players in the world, that still makes me one of the best players in the world. That is a great thing. Being 1% lower then average players, makes me an average player. Thats just a neutral thing. Being 1% lower than terrible players, makes me a terrible player. Thats a bad thing.

Being better than others doesn't drive me to be better. Being the best I can be drives me to be better.

02/11/2013 04:48 PMPosted by Postonforums
People who are below a boss kills threshold should strive to not be below it, especially for the first normal boss of a tier, where they are completely in control of their gearing.


Completely agree.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
If you're 1% below the best players in the world, you're above the threshold to kill the bosses in raids, so you're not being carried probably.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
15205
And I dont see being carried as being explicitly related to whether a boss can be downed or not. I see being carried in terms of skill. In regards to performing the boss fight while doing your role. If you are only 1% weaker than everyone else in your team, it doesn't matter to me how good/bad the team is. You are not being carried by them. The discernible difference between being carried and not being carried is much more of an subjective thing.

I just don't see 1% difference for example being carried. That isn't a large enough gap for me.

Edit: grammatical errors.
Edited by Hiroran on 2/11/2013 5:12 PM PST
Reply Quote
10 Draenei Paladin
30
This "1% worse" discussion has to be the dumbest thing I've read yet. Go figure that both people who are pushing this argument happen to not play a DPS class. You wouldn't sit here spouting that !@#$ if you were a DPS in a progression guild, unless you were some world-class player playing one of the flavor of the month classes like an arcane mage or affliction warlock. Plenty of classes bring utility that help more than doing 1% more damage, like shadow priests - who happen to suffer DPS wise on single target fights. Sure, ideally everyone in your raid is the best at their respective classes and can push the maximum amount of damage, but I highly doubt any guild is like that, even the best guilds in the world. How conceited do you have to be to sit here saying that with a straight face. You know you are indirectly insulting the DPS in your guild right?

I would love to go look at WoL of both your guilds and see if your raid is performing up to your standard, but that's way too much work for such a dumb argument.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
5035
Look for just starting out if everyone in your guild puts 50 to 60 dps you will get to atleast elly. As far as the guild leader picking people off of target dumbies thats up to him. Bottem line your dps is fine for a non hardcore raiding guild. If you fell that you want to raid but your leader us holding you back then find a new group.
With ALL this said still improve your gear.
Run sha weakly as well as lfr.
The dps is fine, but can still improve.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
15205
02/11/2013 10:45 PMPosted by Lightstruck
I would love to go look at WoL of both your guilds and see if your raid is performing up to your standard, but that's way too much work for such a dumb argument.


Thats the thing Postonforum's guild is quite good. But he/she has an extremely elitist mentality which is something that I can not support.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
02/11/2013 02:54 PMPosted by Fatzert


I'll seriously mail you gold. I have a ton parked on that server that does nothing for me.

Can you be so kind to do that please? That will really help me out :)


Done 5k.
Reply Quote
100 Worgen Druid
14540
02/12/2013 05:24 AMPosted by Hiroran
Thats the thing Postonforum's guild is quite good. But he/she has an extremely elitist mentality which is something that I can not support.


People like that don't realize how far ahead of the average player their clique is.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]