Minimum amount of DPS for MSV 10m normal?

100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
02/12/2013 05:24 AMPosted by Hiroran
Thats the thing Postonforum's guild is quite good. But he/she has an extremely elitist mentality which is something that I can not support.


You're completely missing my entire point.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10970
02/12/2013 05:24 AMPosted by Hiroran
I would love to go look at WoL of both your guilds and see if your raid is performing up to your standard, but that's way too much work for such a dumb argument.


Thats the thing Postonforum's guild is quite good. But he/she has an extremely elitist mentality which is something that I can not support.


The fact that you had to pull out the elitist card only proves that you do not understand the point Asane is making.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
02/13/2013 09:45 PMPosted by Tacobeef
These raids are tuned far above the average raider's capacity, if you're not in the top 3 in DPS in every LFR you do, then forget about normal mode raiding.


70% of people who've touched stoneguards have killed elegon.
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90 Human Warlock
8525
I just cleared elegon for the first time tonight...

Really...not that hard. Its a dps check yeah, but we weren't really that close to the dps check and everybody's dps except for our locks & warriors were around 50-60k.

If I'm not correct, garajal & elegon are the only real dps checks in msv?

50k is fine, you'll probably need 60k for elegon, 75k+ for elegon 3 healers if its necessary with decent burst.
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90 Orc Warrior
11860
02/13/2013 09:45 PMPosted by Tacobeef
53 is good for a target dummy. If everyone does 50 on a boss you'll clear MV.


You're kidding right? They won't make it past Garajal (assuming they have good enough healers to deal with coming to within a second of the enrage on the first and second bosses).

To clear MV you need to be doing 80k+ and on Elegon is a burst check (if you don't kill 4 sparks per phase or lose a single DPS, kiss your attempt good bye).

These raids are tuned far above the average raider's capacity, if you're not in the top 3 in DPS in every LFR you do, then forget about normal mode raiding.


80k on Elegon specifically, when we first cleared normal MSV we were doing ~60k dps on single target fights.

Also, whoever told you that you need 4 sparks per phase on normal lied. We did it with 3 both phases just fine.
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100 Troll Hunter
11895
02/13/2013 11:00 PMPosted by Xiic
Also, whoever told you that you need 4 sparks per phase on normal lied. We did it with 3 both phases just fine.


You needed 4-5 for 25m, but could do 3 on 10 man since he was/is easier. Not bashing, just stating the truth. Wasn't Res 25m? :o
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90 Human Warlock
8525
I just cleared elegon for the first time tonight...

Really...not that hard. Its a dps check yeah, but we weren't really that close to the dps check and everybody's dps except for our locks & warriors were around 50-60k.

If I'm not correct, garajal & elegon are the only real dps checks in msv?

50k is fine, you'll probably need 60k for elegon, 75k+ for elegon 3 healers if its necessary with decent burst.


I should've corrected myself

50-60k "out of elegon" did us good.

In elegon everybody needed to pull close to 80k + to succeed how clos ewe did.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
I remember the number 90k average being tossed around for elegon week 1, it was decently tight for week 1 on 25.
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90 Orc Warrior
11860
Also, whoever told you that you need 4 sparks per phase on normal lied. We did it with 3 both phases just fine.


You needed 4-5 for 25m, but could do 3 on 10 man since he was/is easier. Not bashing, just stating the truth. Wasn't Res 25m? :o


We killed it inside of 5 seconds from the enrage on our first normal kill. And the dps check was easier per add wave on 25 than on 10, first week normal mode kills on 25 were regularly doing 5 waves. You try soloing a third wave spark on a firemage in blues without getting any crits on 10 man.
Edited by Xiic on 2/14/2013 12:44 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
02/13/2013 09:45 PMPosted by Tacobeef
53 is good for a target dummy. If everyone does 50 on a boss you'll clear MV.


You're kidding right? They won't make it past Garajal (assuming they have good enough healers to deal with coming to within a second of the enrage on the first and second bosses).

To clear MV you need to be doing 80k+ and on Elegon is a burst check (if you don't kill 4 sparks per phase or lose a single DPS, kiss your attempt good bye).

These raids are tuned far above the average raider's capacity, if you're not in the top 3 in DPS in every LFR you do, then forget about normal mode raiding.


Yes, but elegon has a damage modifier. 50k is 80 k there. All you need to do on elegon is burst 10 sparks.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
I just simmed myself, using "good skill level" set on challenge mode level on a 400s light movement encounter. I came out at 59k dps. I'll agree that at 50k dps the boss isn't really killable, but at the OP's gear level he should be doing more.

I simmed the OP, and his dps at a "good" skill level, and removing the challenge mode setting would produce about 53k dps.

I don't even understand how such low numbers are possible with that gear level.
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100 Human Warrior
17500
Plain and simple, everybody doing 53k could clear the first few bosses in msv10.
You are doing sufficient for the first few bosses in msv.

However, that is not the benchmark you are competing against. At this point in the tier, you are competing against other players. Early on, it was a struggle for most people just to get to the point where they were learning fights, executing properly, doing sufficient dps, working healing cd's etc.

Now its not a struggle. You are not competing for a spot to learn a fight. You are competing for a spot to down a fight. Which means you are competing with people who can do 60, 70, 80, 90 and even 100k dps on some fights. You are not competing to beat the enrage timer. You are competing to down the boss in 4mins, 30sec instead of 5mins.

Yes, all the dps doing 53k, you can clear dogs and feng and gara'jal. Not quickly, not smoothly, but it can be done. But so what? At this stage, who cares? Because there are SO many people who can do what you can only better, there are more options.
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100 Worgen Druid
14540
02/13/2013 09:45 PMPosted by Tacobeef
To clear MV you need to be doing 80k+ and on Elegon is a burst check (if you don't kill 4 sparks per phase or lose a single DPS, kiss your attempt good bye).


...no.

You seem to be forgetting that Elegon has a damage increase buff that starts at 50% and typically progresses to 150% by the end of the fight. If you do 50K on a target dummy then you will do 100K+ on an Elegon kill.

Here is proof from the last fight with no damage buff: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/669udvxpz6bdglqa/analyze/dd/source/?s=22265&e=22902

The DPS did 53.5K, 45.9K, 40.7K, 33K, 27.0K and 23.4K . Tank did 31.3K. 3 healers doing negligible.

Here is another one from Will of the Emperor, http://worldoflogs.com/reports/js8g2zco88f5d9wf/sum/damageDone/?s=5562&e=6311.
After subtracting out Opportunistic Strike damage and dividing out Titan Gas bonus damage, the DPS did 66.4K (shadowpriest), 48.8K, 46.3K, 43.0K, 40.9K. Tanks 48.6K and 39.6K.

(Log shows Titan Gas active for 201s out of 749s fight length, or a 25% damage bonus 26.8% of the time).

02/14/2013 05:39 AMPosted by Tacobeef
If the DPS is doing 50k, there's no way they even know how to generate enough burst to get more than 2 sparks down.


What a load of rubbish. As bear, I can barely do 30K DPS with no Vengeance other than what's provided by the floor, but I have no trouble taking out five sparks solo -- and AOE bleeding other sparks and helping nearby DPS once my spark is dead, on the earlier ones.

Pointing out that there's a burst check seems irrelevant to the point about whether 50K DPS is sufficient. 10-second burst DPS doesn't correlate with sustained DPS. (we also saw this on H Spine)
Edited by Autumni on 2/14/2013 7:18 PM PST
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100 Worgen Druid
14540
Now its not a struggle. You are not competing for a spot to learn a fight. You are competing for a spot to down a fight. Which means you are competing with people who can do 60, 70, 80, 90 and even 100k dps on some fights. You are not competing to beat the enrage timer. You are competing to down the boss in 4mins, 30sec instead of 5mins.


If the leader of the guild he's applying to is as naive as this, it's probably good that he avoided the guild. A good raid recruiter would recognize that someone who can do 50K in blues on a target dummy could turn out to be the best player on the team once they gear up, and it's the recruiter's role to identify applications that may evolve into top quality raiders.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
What a load of rubbish. As bear, I can barely do 30K DPS with no Vengeance other than what's provided by the floor, but I have no trouble taking out five sparks solo -- and AOE bleeding other sparks and helping nearby DPS once my spark is dead, on the earlier ones.


As a Bear, you will find we have plenty of Vengeance during this portion, with minimal ramp. Tanks are pretty much exceptional at this part in ways that some specs are not, and if they're doing as low damage as you are in normal circumstance, they'll definitely let adds sneak through. We're easily doing past 30k with the Touch of the Titans buff and the Vengeance we get naturally.
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90 Pandaren Priest
2950
=O
Edited by Pandaklaus on 2/17/2013 11:58 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Warrior
17115
02/14/2013 07:08 PMPosted by Autumni
What a load of rubbish. As bear, I can barely do 30K DPS with no Vengeance other than what's provided by the floor, but I have no trouble taking out five sparks solo -- and AOE bleeding other sparks and helping nearby DPS once my spark is dead, on the earlier ones.


You should be pulling 30k burst easily with no vengeance inside the bubble
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so 50k dps is good for the first 3 bosses what should you have for the rest of the bosses
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