5.2 ptr survive

90 Orc Warrior
10485
Something doesnt feel right, we didn't get any healing nerfs yet it feels like my healing got nerfed by 50%

does the defensive stance make this big of a difference?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6885
SW was hit with the nerf bat and knocked it out of the park. Practically useless in PvP now because anyone with a stun can kill you now (you no longer regenerate health while stunned under the effects of SW.) They also nerfed the healing to 2% (was 3%). That should be your only self healing nerf, and then they did something to defensive stance to not make it so powerful for non prot Warriors.
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90 Human Warrior
13415
02/11/2013 03:30 AMPosted by Vish
W was hit with the nerf bat and knocked it out of the park. Practically useless in PvP now because anyone with a stun can kill you now (you no longer regenerate health while stunned under the effects of SW.)


This got reverted fyi.

@the OP, yes, the Defensive Stance nerf is most of what you're feeling. The rest is the fact that literally everyone on PTR is in full 493 ilvl PVP gear. The extra gear means more damage going out, which makes SW feel less effective.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
7230
02/11/2013 03:30 AMPosted by Vish
SW was hit with the nerf bat and knocked it out of the park. Practically useless in PvP now because anyone with a stun can kill you now (you no longer regenerate health while stunned under the effects of SW.) They also nerfed the healing to 2% (was 3%). That should be your only self healing nerf, and then they did something to defensive stance to not make it so powerful for non prot Warriors.
I'm sorry Vish, but your information on SW is out-dated. They reverted the Healing nerf and stun nerf, but it doesn't generate as much rage now.
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90 Human Warrior
7930
Healing nerf was reverted on SW but we're still going to die in stun/cc chains because we can't be in defensive stance anymore. We're made out of paper in Battle Stance.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
7230
02/11/2013 07:25 AMPosted by Adios
Healing nerf was reverted on SW but we're still going to die in stun/cc chains because we can't be in defensive stance anymore. We're made out of paper in Battle Stance.
Well, DPS warriors shouldn't be sitting in Defensive stance 100% of the time anyways. You should only be switching to DS when you're taking lots of damage.
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90 Orc Warrior
5290
02/11/2013 07:38 AMPosted by Kulso
Well, DPS warriors shouldn't be sitting in Defensive stance 100% of the time anyways. You should only be switching to DS when you're taking lots of damage.


Funny thing is, you could be at 100% hp and if you dont have a stun for a stun in battle stance, you can be taken from 100-0 before the stun wears off because we take so much damage in battle. however if you could switch stances while stun that might be a little helpful
Edited by Ezyo on 2/11/2013 7:41 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
0
Yes as gear scales for dps classes SW becomes a non issue. There was not a single moment on the ptr when SW actually saved me against anyone with the latest pvp gear. There are casters than can take you from 50% to 0 in a CC and most of the time before SW even kicks in.

This on top of the fact that I was usually rage starved and unable to do anymore than an OP+Slam once Iactually was able to get close to anyone was highly frustrating. The damn cool down on stance swaping has to go. I switch to Defensive to soak damage in a root and by the time I am back on target and can go back to Arms I am in another CC.

Also getting killed by a rogue kitting you with Shureiken Toss and doing grest damage from range is the low of my ptr play. I had a flash back to Cata and started to sweat.
Edited by Talistraza on 2/11/2013 9:27 AM PST
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90 Tauren Warrior
7705
Get over it people, we all knew the moment arms/fury was given the 25% mitigation due to prot falling behind in pve that it was criminal at best. The same goes for shockwave on a 20 sec CD. So now we're back down to 15%, but still better mobility than we have ever had (excluding the days of old warbringer).
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
0
We will all be getting over high arena ratings and any reason at all to bring a warrior to pvp soon Dreadhoof.
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90 Tauren Warrior
7705
02/11/2013 10:43 AMPosted by Talistraza
We will all be getting over high arena ratings and any reason at all to bring a warrior to pvp soon Dreadhoof.


Have you even looked at the arena ladders? Warriors are top dog melee all across the board, very little diversity at all. It won't kill the class to see a few other viable types of melee (forgive me my mage overlords) in the standings at "high ratings" as you say.
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90 Human Warrior
7930
Top dog melee because warbringer+shockwave doesn't DR that does amazing for hard swaps in KFC which is why every warrior is running it. 20% was too much in defensive stance but we sat in defensive stance because we would die in battle stance. Warriors lost the passive 10% reduction in battle stance so we're pretty much screwed. Warrior stances also have a 3 second cooldown, we can't swap stances while stunned/cc'd, making it easier for teams to train us. We apply 0 offensive pressure because of the 10 rage on OP, but we'll live longer.

This happened in the last 2 seasons that made Warriors absolutely horrible, the worst being S11. Warrior teams were simply tunneled to the ground, forced to pop defensive cooldowns in the beginning because they it was too risky to stay on the offensive.

If you don't know what it was like in S11 it was pretty much like this:

Gates open, enemy team targets you and starts to pump damage into you, you're forced to swap to defensive stance, pop defensive cooldowns while your healer sits in a CC. Your team is not able to apply offensive pressure, so the enemy team has momentum from the beginning of the match. They keep tunneling you into the ground through your defensive cooldowns, and once they were gone, they keep training you some more. You can't switch to battle stance cause you'll die, you can't apply any pressure because you're trying to stay alive, your healer either blew up CDs to keep you up or is sitting in a cc, and eventually you end up dying.

It's the same thing in 5.2. We sit in battle stance, we're going to get trained cause we take too much damage. We gotta swap to defensive cooldown, now we have no offensive pressure. Reason being, we don't regenerate rage anymore except for a couple of abilities like Mortal Strike, Berserker Rage, Charge. When we took a hit, we had rage to dump. Now that doesn't exist unless we sit in Berserker Stance. Even if we did sit in Berserker, it would be no different from battle stance because battle stance benefits warriors much more.

Still, it's no defensive stance, but 10 rage on OP killed us from fighting in Defensive. We're too starved and that's bad. This is why every class is laughing at warriors atm on the PTR. Sure, they buffed up our damage, but we're just glass cannons now. Target us, train warriors, they'll die.
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90 Tauren Warrior
7705
Top dog melee because warbringer+shockwave doesn't DR that does amazing for hard swaps in KFC which is why every warrior is running it. 20% was too much in defensive stance but we sat in defensive stance because we would die in battle stance. Warriors lost the passive 10% reduction in battle stance so we're pretty much screwed. Warrior stances also have a 3 second cooldown, we can't swap stances while stunned/cc'd, making it easier for teams to train us. We apply 0 offensive pressure because of the 10 rage on OP, but we'll live longer.

This happened in the last 2 seasons that made Warriors absolutely horrible, the worst being S11. Warrior teams were simply tunneled to the ground, forced to pop defensive cooldowns in the beginning because they it was too risky to stay on the offensive.

If you don't know what it was like in S11 it was pretty much like this:

Gates open, enemy team targets you and starts to pump damage into you, you're forced to swap to defensive stance, pop defensive cooldowns while your healer sits in a CC. Your team is not able to apply offensive pressure, so the enemy team has momentum from the beginning of the match. They keep tunneling you into the ground through your defensive cooldowns, and once they were gone, they keep training you some more. You can't switch to battle stance cause you'll die, you can't apply any pressure because you're trying to stay alive, your healer either blew up CDs to keep you up or is sitting in a cc, and eventually you end up dying.

It's the same thing in 5.2. We sit in battle stance, we're going to get trained cause we take too much damage. We gotta swap to defensive cooldown, now we have no offensive pressure. Reason being, we don't regenerate rage anymore except for a couple of abilities like Mortal Strike, Berserker Rage, Charge. When we took a hit, we had rage to dump. Now that doesn't exist unless we sit in Berserker Stance. Even if we did sit in Berserker, it would be no different from battle stance because battle stance benefits warriors much more.

Still, it's no defensive stance, but 10 rage on OP killed us from fighting in Defensive. We're too starved and that's bad. This is why every class is laughing at warriors atm on the PTR. Sure, they buffed up our damage, but we're just glass cannons now. Target us, train warriors, they'll die.


Sounds like the exact position DKs are in. Rogues/WW Monks (yeah buffs inc) and Rets are not even on the map and ferals probably on their way out with the upcoming cyclone nerf.

All this being said, I want to make it clear I feel ranged dps classes still have too much of an advantage of melee.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
0
Dreadhoof I understand what you are saying and I agree that there should be more diversity. However I do not believe we get there by nerfing the only reason warriors were there in the first place.

Currently the other classes have gotten buffs while the warrior has recieved nerfs. The combination I believe will tip the scales completley the other way.

I played all weekend on the PTR and what I found was 2 things:

-We no longer have enough rage to do burst damage and anything else
-We no longer have the control to counter being kited and give us uptime to generate rage
-Going to defensive stance take sus out of the game however we need to go there to survive damage

I believe the nerfs are overboard and even though some percieve them as being small they are large enough together to put us out of the competative group
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90 Tauren Warrior
7705

I played all weekend on the PTR and what I found was 2 things:

-We no longer have enough rage to do burst damage and anything else
-We no longer have the control to counter being kited and give us uptime to generate rage
-Going to defensive stance take sus out of the game however we need to go there to survive damage


Honestly, if one is doing burst they shouldn't be able to do other things like being defensive/control (looking at you mage/hunters). Build/conserve your rage until its time to burst, then do it with coordinated CC. Heaven forbid we bring skill back into the class.

Kiting is a serious issue, but a smaller issue than it ever was considering juggernaut/Doubletime, Heroic Leap Glyph, and Safeguard with an intervene-able banner. This does not even include support dispels/immunities.

Going "defensive" should mean just that. Being able to just "set it and forget it" in defensive stance is a cheezy style of play.
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90 Orc Warrior
8980
I have also tinkered on the PTR and stopped because I didn't want to berserker rage on my monitor for real.

If we didn't have a rage cost on OP while in battle stance I could swallow the rest of the nerfs... but being rage starved in our dmg dealing stance is over the top.

The ONLY plus side here is that NO ONE will complain about warriors in 5.2 lol........ sigh
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
0
Right now on PTR the only way to pool your rage is when you are fighting a target dummy.
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90 Undead Rogue
6385
02/11/2013 04:07 AMPosted by Secondwind
W was hit with the nerf bat and knocked it out of the park. Practically useless in PvP now because anyone with a stun can kill you now (you no longer regenerate health while stunned under the effects of SW.)


This got reverted fyi.

@the OP, yes, the Defensive Stance nerf is most of what you're feeling. The rest is the fact that literally everyone on PTR is in full 493 ilvl PVP gear. The extra gear means more damage going out, which makes SW feel less effective.
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90 Tauren Warrior
7705
02/11/2013 12:06 PMPosted by Talistraza
Right now on PTR the only way to pool your rage is when you are fighting a target dummy.


Being a bit dramatic aren't we? Mortal Strike still generates rage, Second Wind will still generate rage, and charge will still generate rage. If truly desperate you can glyph bull rush for an extra 15 rage in place of hindering strikes.
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90 Undead Rogue
6385
02/11/2013 12:24 PMPosted by Dreadhoof
Right now on PTR the only way to pool your rage is when you are fighting a target dummy.


Being a bit dramatic aren't we? Mortal Strike still generates rage, Second Wind will still generate rage, and charge will still generate rage. If truly desperate you can glyph bull rush for an extra 15 rage in place of hindering strikes.


OMG where did this new Warrior realization of not being nerfed to death come from? I am so proud!
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