Ret DPS

Hello!

I have recently begun debating whether or not to dust off my paladin and level him up (I just like the whole premise of being a holy warrior, plus the t10 gear is amazing). My only concern is that from what I've been reading and observing in raids, ret paladins seem to be few and far between, and their overall DPS is not that great.

How do you guys feel about where they are right now? In 5.2? Their rotation seems simple enough: press three buttons, get 3 HP, and hit TV.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6990
Ret DPS is middle of the pack right now, not good, not bad. Ret does however have a ton of utility they bring to a raid which can save your group from wipes if used effectively.

If you do plan on raiding on your paladin don't focus too much on trying to out-dps other raid members, focus more on using your toolkit to the best of your abilities and you'll have a fun time.
Edited by Dantekong on 2/10/2013 9:38 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
7020
Ret has a very fluid rotation, in my opinion. I have 3 90s and while my Ret does the lowest overall DPS atm, he's also my least geared character. I enjoy playing my Ret the most, for sure.

I have yet to do anything outside of Heroics and LFR on this toon, but with CDs popped and in my so-so gear, I can get up to 80-90k single target. Unfortunately, without good gear, your DPS drops off once CDs are off.

However, once you get gear, I hear Ret DPS is pretty decent overall. We're definitely 'middle of the pack' or a little above that from what I can tell, but middle of the pack isn't a bad thing. At least that's viable.

Burden of Guilt makes PvE DPS quite fun. Having a speed boost ever 4-5 seconds is really nice, especially when you're trying to move out of an AoE spell or get to an add. Our support heals are nice as well, sometimes i'll sacrifice some DPS to throw out a Selfless Healer FoL on the tank, if the heals are having a rough go.

Ret is fun and I love it.

5.2 looks like buffs for us all around, self-healing, friendly healing and even some damage increases. I like the changes and buffs to our seals especially.
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90 Human Paladin
10885
I personally feel Ret is in a pretty good spot right now, it's not the absolute best dps spec, but it's also not the worst. You're right about the rotation though Happy, the rotation is very simple, just hit buttons in a priority order, while maintaining the Inquisition buff. Once you get around 20% haste, you'll start noticing how fluid the rotation can be, and be hitting damage dealing buttons nearly every GCD.
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It was a lot of fun to level with, nice burst here and there, self heals all around enjoyable game play.
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90 Human Paladin
7020
I wish they would give us Divine Intervention back. I loved that spell.
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02/10/2013 09:44 AMPosted by Hydroplaning
Ret has a very fluid rotation, in my opinion.


IMO ret hasn't been "fluid" since BC.

and I still couldn't believe my eyes when I read this on MMO

please just buff ret sust damage or give us pressure mechanics or better cc. Sucks to be useful 20 secs every 3 min.
Every time we discuss nerfing burst and buffing sustain, hundreds of Rets cry no.

Why do Rets continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Why the hell would you prefer random burst dps over predictable sustained dps. Its what I HATE the most out of ret you don't know what your dps will look like. Who in their right mind is advocating burst DPS?? and holding hostage the rest of the people who want a fluid rotation and sustained dps. I just don't get it I will never understand the wow population.
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90 Human Paladin
10885
02/10/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Mystie
IMO ret hasn't been "fluid" since BC.
Auto Attack crit go!! Hope my Seal of Blood crits too! Woops, I'm Alliance, hope my seal of command procs, AND I hope it crits! :D
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90 Human Paladin
5150
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90 Human Paladin
8155
02/10/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Mystie
Ret has a very fluid rotation, in my opinion.


IMO ret hasn't been "fluid" since BC.

and I still couldn't believe my eyes when I read this on MMO

please just buff ret sust damage or give us pressure mechanics or better cc. Sucks to be useful 20 secs every 3 min.
Every time we discuss nerfing burst and buffing sustain, hundreds of Rets cry no.

Why do Rets continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Why the hell would you prefer random burst dps over predictable sustained dps. Its what I HATE the most out of ret you don't know what your dps will look like. Who in their right mind is advocating burst DPS?? and holding hostage the rest of the people who want a fluid rotation and sustained dps. I just don't get it I will never understand the wow population.


The part that gets me is when people keep saying "We have tons of utility". Like that is going to offset the "average" dps we currently have.

Off healing makes the healers look bad and they frown on it. ( I have been told ). Off tanking makes the tank look bad. ( I got yelled at for that one too ) So what good is all this "utility" if the people in dungeons and LFR don't want you to use them? ( That is a serious question )
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
02/10/2013 09:17 PMPosted by Thadium


IMO ret hasn't been "fluid" since BC.

and I still couldn't believe my eyes when I read this on MMO

please just buff ret sust damage or give us pressure mechanics or better cc. Sucks to be useful 20 secs every 3 min.
Every time we discuss nerfing burst and buffing sustain, hundreds of Rets cry no.

Why do Rets continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Why the hell would you prefer random burst dps over predictable sustained dps. Its what I HATE the most out of ret you don't know what your dps will look like. Who in their right mind is advocating burst DPS?? and holding hostage the rest of the people who want a fluid rotation and sustained dps. I just don't get it I will never understand the wow population.


The part that gets me is when people keep saying "We have tons of utility". Like that is going to offset the "average" dps we currently have.

Off healing makes the healers look bad and they frown on it. ( I have been told ). Off tanking makes the tank look bad. ( I got yelled at for that one too ) So what good is all this "utility" if the people in dungeons and LFR don't want you to use them? ( That is a serious question )


The part that gets me is when people complain about ret damage, and don't seem to work towards fixing themselves, but instead blame the spec.

Guess what. Ret with DP does a lot of sustained damage, and still has decent burst. So no, the utility isn't meant to make up for having low damage because we don't have very low damage.

and FYI, utility can be very powerful. Salvation on initial pulls can make it go smoother, sacrifice during high tank damage can give the heals a break, SS on the tank can save healer mana, hoP can save lives and be the difference between a wipe and a kill. Lay on hands can do the same. Bubble can cheese stacking debuffs and auto-kill mechanics.
So yeah, you could play without doing all of these things and be just fine in terms of damage, but your group will not be as good as it could be. You will not do as well as a group as you could, and that is on you.

Being a good player isnt that hard, but part of it is to know what you can bring to the group and use it. Trying to do better will result in you doing better.
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90 Human Rogue
2445
The problem my friend is that they are giving ton of utility to the pure dps specs and also since they equalized 10 with 25 mans having a paladin is not mandatory any more for obvious reasons.

When you play a hybrid with average dps that it's utility can make the lives easier but not mandatory for progression as a rl wouldn't you prefer a higher damage spec?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17775
02/10/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Mystie
Ret has a very fluid rotation, in my opinion.


IMO ret hasn't been "fluid" since BC.


Ahahaha... HA. Really?

Seal, Judge, CS, Seal, Judge, Seal, Judge, CS, Seal, Judge, Seal, Judge, CS. Seal, Judge, Seal, Judge, CS, Seal, Judge, Seal, Judge, Mana pot.... lather, rinse, repeat.

Uninspired repetition is fluid to you? Nostalgia doesn't make BC Ret better in any way.

I don't know what forums you are going to, the majority of Rets want less burst and more sustained. I guess you missed the forums before MoP hit. There was a super post made by Blue, something along the lines of "What do you think of your class?" in every class forum. Most, if not all, Rets wanted less burst and more sustained. The talent trees and specializations came out the way they did, as if no one had said a thing. By asking for less burst, the devs must have assumed we meant 'baseline' and made us choose between talents we already had in Cata. This has little to do with the players. Most of them are completely clueless, I agree, but Blizzard is the one that makes and develops the game... so you might want to aim your disappointment in their direction.

And before you start saying that Blizzard bends to the will of players, remember where you are. The Paladin Boards. We know better.
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IMO ret hasn't been "fluid" since BC.


I don't know what forums you are going to, the majority of Rets want less burst and more sustained.


It came right out of a GC twitter page and linked on MMO Champion that "Every time we discuss nerfing burst and buffing sustain, hundreds of Rets cry no." So I agree with you but I don't know where GC are seeing these ppl who don't want burst taken away for more sustained.

Back to the fluid part in that in BC you didn't have down time between abilities or "gaps" nothing more i hate then doing a rotation and having to wait between abilities before I hit the next one its bad design and should never happen. At least in BC you constantly was hitting an ability.
Edited by Mystie on 2/11/2013 8:43 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
8155
The part that gets me is when people complain about ret damage, and don't seem to work towards fixing themselves, but instead blame the spec.

Guess what. Ret with DP does a lot of sustained damage, and still has decent burst. So no, the utility isn't meant to make up for having low damage because we don't have very low damage.

and FYI, utility can be very powerful. Salvation on initial pulls can make it go smoother, sacrifice during high tank damage can give the heals a break, SS on the tank can save healer mana, hoP can save lives and be the difference between a wipe and a kill. Lay on hands can do the same. Bubble can cheese stacking debuffs and auto-kill mechanics.
So yeah, you could play without doing all of these things and be just fine in terms of damage, but your group will not be as good as it could be. You will not do as well as a group as you could, and that is on you.

Being a good player isnt that hard, but part of it is to know what you can bring to the group and use it. Trying to do better will result in you doing better.


Answer below...

The problem my friend is that they are giving ton of utility to the pure dps specs and also since they equalized 10 with 25 mans having a paladin is not mandatory any more for obvious reasons.

When you play a hybrid with average dps that it's utility can make the lives easier but not mandatory for progression as a rl wouldn't you prefer a higher damage spec?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
I'll offer my opinion as an example of someone who likes the amount of burst we have. I don't think it's especially nice, as in I wouldn't be too picky about a slight nerf to buff sustained, but I don't have any problems with having lots of control on when to do massive damage.


The problem my friend is that they are giving ton of utility to the pure dps specs and also since they equalized 10 with 25 mans having a paladin is not mandatory any more for obvious reasons.

When you play a hybrid with average dps that it's utility can make the lives easier but not mandatory for progression as a rl wouldn't you prefer a higher damage spec?


Well you're really comparing ret to other plate dps. Even though they are the highest dps, you can't just stack mages and locks because you would run into problems with gear distribution.

So comparing ret to DKs and fury Warriors, I would love to have a ret in my raid, especially if I didnt have a pally of another spec. Fury warriors and ret's don't compete as much for gear, but I would probably take a ret over a frost DK if I had the choice and they were comparable in skill and gear.
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