World of Warcraft®

Yesterday I got to talking to a friend who hasn't played since Cata. I was the bearer of bad news and had to tell him that every single guild that came up during our conversation has collapsed or left the server.

We are on a server with virtually no Horde players and where I can count the guilds raiding on one hand. My guild is quite busy, raiding 4-5 days a week with two teams, but this is due to tireless recruiting, a lot of money sunk into the game to sponsor transfers and players if needed, and other hard administrative work. Regardless, we seem to be plagued with medical emergencies, car accidents, and as our players are older, job/home loss due to the US economy; all of these either prevent players from raiding for periods of time or force them to stop entirely. With virtually no new players to our side of the server save for those who transfer to join us, it is getting harder and harder to replace raiders.

I'm wondering how other GMs on low-pop servers are handling the logistical nightmare that Blizzard helped fascilitate by ignoring the plight of those in our situation. I know a lot of people come to these forums to cry and ask why their guilds are failing but this is not the case here or the purpose of this thread. I'm hoping to facilitate discussion of issues and solutions.

There really is no answer to your plight. Unfortunately it requires Blizz to do oen or more of these steps.
1/ open free transferrs for players and guilds to those servers from high pop ones, on a permament basis, untill certai pop level or ratio of Ally to Horde is achiieved.

2/ Combine smaller servers together.

3/ Have new p-layers only able to roll on a low pop server.

Of these 3 options number 1 would be the most effective and easiest for Blizz to introduce.

I am not sure where is a reliable place to search for server population rankings, I looked at wowprogress and saw Medivh is ranked at 160 and my realm is at 152, with Medivh having a slightly bigger raiding population than my realm (Cenarion Circle). I can tell you that I have not had to pay for a single transfer or faction change, and so far I don't think anyone came to raid with us cross server. I also did not advertise for recruitment on the guild recruitment forum; but did use the realm forum.

One thing I've noticed is that our server is lopsided in terms of population in favour of alliance. As such, most of our recruits came from alliance side. It is fortuitous for us that raiding on alliance side is souring; their progression suffering badly overall compared to Horde, so many talented players are unable to find guilds that suit their progression needs and thus willing to transfer over. It also helps that we are the most progressed guild on the server, so we get to pick who we want so to speak.

One piece of advice I can give you is this: the top dog never has recruitment issues, because they can poach anyone they want. Middle-of-the-road guilds or worse have recruitment issues because no one really wants to join such a guild (even if they are just as mediocre... mediocre people tend to think they are better than they are). If you want to see a shift in recruitment ease, you need to adapt a strategy of "you join because we are a desirable guild to join, not because I am begging you to join". Offering to pay for transfers and such is begging people to join. If they really want to play in your group, they'll find a way to get there... you don't need to go out of pocket.

Also, if you are having a lot of drop-outs, then your recruitment process needs to be improved. Granted, actual emergencies do happen, but a lot of people use 'emergencies' as a cover-up for inconsistency. Don't sink into the mindset that people are too valuable to replace. Constantly recruit and constantly replace the inconsistent people.

Finally, people value quality over quantity. Running two raid groups is highly undesirable because you split the quality of the raid. If you take the best five raiders (with respect to comp of course) and combine them into a single raid, you will progress faster. If the two teams are lopsided in terms of quality, then you will create resentment. The B team has no reason to be there; because they want to be part of the progression team. One set of leaders should only focus on one raid team. You should not simultaneously lead two groups and try to balance both in terms of progression.

In summary, the best recruits go to guilds that are serious about progression, not try to run as many guild raids as possible. Recruits don't care about YOUR guild specifically; they care about their own progression. If your guild is offering them equal or better progression than what they can get otherwise, they will join... otherwise, they won't.

One piece of advice I can give you is this: the top dog never has recruitment issues, because they can poach anyone they want. Middle-of-the-road guilds or worse have recruitment issues because no one really wants to join such a guild (even if they are just as mediocre... mediocre people tend to think they are better than they are). If you want to see a shift in recruitment ease, you need to adapt a strategy of "you join because we are a desirable guild to join, not because I am begging you to join". Offering to pay for transfers and such is begging people to join. If they really want to play in your group, they'll find a way to get there... you don't need to go out of pocket.

If we didn't pay for transfers some people would have no way of joining. I should have clarified, we do not offer paid transfers to everyone such as those who do not want to pay. Those who request one must show proof that they are unable to pay. I turn down everyone who wants a free transfer because they are cheap and lazy.

I see what you are saying about guilds with a lack of progression. I can't respond to that comment as I can't discuss other guilds on the server but what I can say is that our issues are simply due to the lack of players. All I can say is that there are only 4 raiding guilds and they are stretched pretty thin.

Also, if you are having a lot of drop-outs, then your recruitment process needs to be improved. Granted, actual emergencies do happen, but a lot of people use 'emergencies' as a cover-up for inconsistency. Don't sink into the mindset that people are too valuable to replace. Constantly recruit and constantly replace the inconsistent people.

Completely agree. We replace those who cannot perform or who have various issues they hide behind to mask incompetence. So far many have gone in favor of better players. I do not count those as emergency-leave players: the ones I was thinking of were real emergencies ... Cancer, house loss, surgery, etc.

Finally, people value quality over quantity. Running two raid groups is highly undesirable because you split the quality of the raid. If you take the best five raiders (with respect to comp of course) and combine them into a single raid, you will progress faster. If the two teams are lopsided in terms of quality, then you will create resentment. The B team has no reason to be there; because they want to be part of the progression team. One set of leaders should only focus on one raid team. You should not simultaneously lead two groups and try to balance both in terms of progression.

In summary, the best recruits go to guilds that are serious about progression, not try to run as many guild raids as possible. Recruits don't care about YOUR guild specifically; they care about their own progression. If your guild is offering them equal or better progression than what they can get otherwise, they will join... otherwise, they won't.

I should have clarified; one team is a farm team that raids on a casual, not a progression, basis. The progression team no longer farms content. Completely agreed on the last poin in regards to people joining for progression.

There really is no answer to your plight. Unfortunately it requires Blizz to do oen or more of these steps.
1/ open free transferrs for players and guilds to those servers from high pop ones, on a permament basis, untill certai pop level or ratio of Ally to Horde is achiieved.

2/ Combine smaller servers together.

3/ Have new p-layers only able to roll on a low pop server.

Of these 3 options number 1 would be the most effective and easiest for Blizz to introduce.

I don't know if 3 would help, however. Raid teams can't have brand new players who have no experience in the game unless they are exceptional gamers who can hit the ground running.

I was proposing a long term solution to your problem, you had the short term covered. Clearly as the reaolm grows it creates a better recruitment atmosphere. Try recruiting players in when you can say we are a growing realm. Your realm needs it top raid guilds looking at how to help the realm. On our real m we took off when opur top raid and pvp guilds starting recruiting as a group.

to fiix your problem you also have to think strategically and try and fix your realm.

02/12/2013 05:35 AMPosted by Wakes

On our real m we took off when opur top raid and pvp guilds starting recruiting as a group.

Could you elaborate on this please?

Ok gundrak was always ranked 2nd or 3 rd last on proigression US ranks and last on Oceanic. We were a low pop server and eally had only one real raid guild and even thier were only progressing slowly (Alliance side). Pvp was poor no high ranked guilds at all.

What occurred next had nothing to do with me so I can only give you my point of view.
1/ Vindictive went on a massive cross realms recruitment drive, also the other raiding guilds did too in response. We got a raid guild to come in as a complete guild and the realm started getting up from the bottom, this meant more people were will ing to join the realm as they saw it progressing.

2/ The horde and ally pvpers decided to make one guild Lipgloss and Lollipops on the Ally side. sundeenly we had a decent pvp guild and the horde player who did not join made Undisputed and they became a decent pvp guild. More pvpers were willing to coem Gundrak as they saw an opportunity to progress.

Now what happened off course is peoiple left those guilds started thier own and soon the skill levels as a whole on the server improved. this attracted better players to the realm and became a upward movement of numbers and quality.

One of the reasons people give for not wanting to go small pop is the AH and market, new players mean increased market there fore making tjhe realm more attractive. So the real basis of your problem is the small size of your realm. It maybe better to have a super progression guild able to atrract more players to it then 12 medicocre guilds.

As I said the events had nothing to do with me, but was pretty amazing to watch.

That is very interesting and something I will definitely discuss with other GMs on our server. My guild is currently in much better shape than many others despite their progression as quality players are very hard to come by. Last year, for example, a handful of raiders left another guild, destroying it as there is virtually no pool to recruit from. What happened with your server is very inspiring but will require the channels of communication between all the guilds to open wider than they currently are.

Right now we do not have any hard core guilds on either side. We have some that have progressed into Heroics, but no one is even close to the elite guilds that cleared all the hardmodes in one or two weeks.

I agree; the market is one of the big killers of the realm. I've had many transfers who pulled out at the last moment because of the market. The guild provides all consumables a raider requires and even gear sometimes but potential transfers are still apprehensive about moving to a realm where some weeks you can't even buy a flask.

Does anyone have any similar stories to share like Wakes did?

Sorry Hesplar My main server is Draenor, and it is an old medium to high pop server, Never really had any problems with recruiting. The only real issue with the server is if your wanting fast hardcore progression this is not the server for you.

But we have more than enough raiders and recruits. If anything now we are seeing too many new guilds.. most of them are here today and gone tomorrow flash in the pans

Once in a while a top server guild like Paradox will fracture and the fracture guild will do real well for a year and then it too crashes and burns

Most are 10 man guilds throught there are a few 25man guild still left Hoss being one of them or they are making the attempt at returning to 25s

As to horde side it is nearly all 10 man raiding

Maybe you could organize a council of your fellow guild leaders to open up the lines of communication include both factions and see what ideas all of you working together might be able to come up with.

Start out by posting this on your forum page see who is interested. and go from there

I wish you luck...

Ssinfull, I think you are right, the best plan of action is to speak directly to the other GMs about the matter. I've got so many things posted up on our server forum page that I think I will just breach the subject in game; any more posts from me and it will look like my blog. There are some of us who communicate regularly and are all on the same page but I guess it is a question of getting everyone on board despite our differences and individual ambitions. A healthy server is mutually-benefitial to all guilds.

In late Cata we had many smaller guilds emerge, similar to your server. They are all dead now that we are in MoP. What it comes down to, in my opinion, is the level of effort put forth by the GM and Officers is directly proportional to the success of the guild. This is probably why none of our 'fracture' guilds survived; they were mostly created to gratify the immediate needs of one or two people who had no desire to put in the hours necessary to make a guild prosper.

The only real option is to cultivate a sort of partnership with another guild. Poaching raiders doesn't really work on low pop servers... but borrowing does. Reasonably well, even.

Other than that? Recruit lowbies and hope that for every ten you bring in even one will stick around at 90.

Hathorr,

You'll likely hear from me soon via email. I am also a professional trying to tackle the low-pop realm challenge while utilizing business level skills. Following you on Twitter for now.

Zylivos,

There are not enough raiders for other guilds to spare. This has been a common issue for all guilds on the server in the past and is ongoing.

A lot of guilds end up transferring to a higher population server. Especially raiding guilds.

02/19/2013 11:28 AMPosted by Meleti

A lot of guilds end up transferring to a higher population server. Especially raiding guilds.

Yes they do that and then they end up with a whole new set of problems mainly because the did not think the transfer through

And while they may have been a big fish in an empty pond in the old server they are not a small fish in very big pond having to complete with a lot of big fish.

One thing that I see happening when small raiding guilds transfer to larger servers that are often more progressed, is suddenly there is not only more raiders to recruit but more opportunties for the small guilds raiders and they find themselves bleeding members faster than they can recruit.

Hespler,

Used to raid on Medivh (during WotLK) myself and still maintain a guide at the top of your forums (which reminds me I might need to update it, but might not). Sadly Medivh has effectively 'died' as a server since Cataclysm. The staple high progression guilds from the alliance that brought talent TO THE SERVER have since left the server or disbanded/gone inactive. Was in one of them myself.

The horde have always had it rough there, but it is brutal even for alliance now. The greater numbers they have compared to you, means very little when talent leaves not arrives for the most part. I've been updating other realm thread guides often, Med goes forever without ever needing an update by a new guild that lasted 3 weeks without falling apart. I think it went for an entire year at one point with no updates.

Unfortunately I don't have a suggestion for you in terms of current content raiding other than server transferring. But for PvP and old content raiding, I do suggest OpenRaid and oQueue. The first is a website to do xrealm events, and the other is an addon for in-game xrealm events.

Medivh used to be in the 65-70 range for server ranking from raid progression. It has, as was pointed out by another poster, substantially fallen. At one point it was even below Malygos, and Maly is not a place to xfer to. The Horde there are now only slightly better off then you, but that isn't saying much. To escape the eventual downfall I saw coming, I took the only option and transferred at the end of T11.

One of the things that greatly disappointed me with MoP, was the lack of xrealm current raiding. Something they had said at one point we'd be able to do, and I don't mean LFR. As Blizzard has acknowledged, and shown as well, they more often respond to those who are 'unhappy' with their current gaming situation with WoW, and subsequently do something about it.

In other words, gripe. Gripe a lot and get others griping about it too. Get every horde on your server griping on the forums about it to. Find other servers with this horrible situation as well. Get them involved in the movement. Start discussions on the forums addressing this matter and demanding resolution. Mobilize the masses in your cause and get them to participate and support the movement. A sizable protest could get noticed and attract attention. Sure it's a long shot, but not like posting would cost you any money. Cheaper then a guild transfer by a long shot if you add it all up.

Think of em like a ISP. "If you don't give me better service I'm going to someone else. How many subscriptions did you loose in the last 6 months? Oh that's right, 200k."

Go get em tiger. Show no mercy!

Guild and this game in general require turn over, you have to have new blood in for the old blood out. There is too many servers and Blizzard needs to start to merge servers. Till that happens there can be no solution that isn't a band aid to your problem.

The only thing I have found that works is to be open with allowing people to join your raids when your short. There's people I have found that want to start to raid but haven't been given the chance or that are afraid of trying. If your open with them and will work with them you can get a new recruit and work on from that point getting them up to speed.

Blizzard needs to fix this problem and the aswner is server merging.

02/21/2013 01:04 AMPosted by Genada

Blizzard needs to fix this problem and the aswner is server merging.

I agree that Blizzard needs to be involved but I am not sure merging is the answer. I am only speculating but I think CRZ is a stepping stone to something new.

A better solution would be a seamless way to move server to server... or a serverless concept.

So long as people can move to a new server they will and more merges will be required and more splits. It's time for a better architecture.

Used to raid on Medivh (during WotLK) myself and still maintain a guide at the top of your forums (which reminds me I might need to update it, but might not).

If you update you will just end up deleting half of your original post to be honest.

Sadly Medivh has effectively 'died' as a server since Cataclysm. The staple high progression guilds from the alliance that brought talent TO THE SERVER have since left the server or disbanded/gone inactive. Was in one of them myself.

Same here. I was in one of those guilds who left at the beginning of Cata despite starting off strong. I guess they saw the downfall coming as you did. However, as Ssinfull pointed out, guilds who transfer to high-pop high-prog servers don't stay together and this was the case here. That's why I'm not keen on moving. There is no point in me shouldering the transfer fees only to have to fight against longterm local guilds.

One of the things that greatly disappointed me with MoP, was the lack of xrealm current raiding. Something they had said at one point we'd be able to do, and I don't mean LFR. As Blizzard has acknowledged, and shown as well, they more often respond to those who are 'unhappy' with their current gaming situation with WoW, and subsequently do something about it.

If Blizz initiates x-realm raiding for current content it will be the death of small servers and all the guilds on them. The members who are in top-progression guilds will simply find higher-progressed runs on other servers and those in guilds with low progression will look for PUGs on high-pop servers where they can get carried through. There is no reason for anyone to raid with any of the guilds on my server if they can go do current runs with teams from Illidan that can either drag them through or help them achieve their potential without the pain in the you know what push to clear content with what is there.

We already saw it with cross-realm teams for world bosses. I don't need to wait, mobilize a team, wait some more, tag, maybe lose the tag on a boss that spawns once a week ... I just got my buddy to invite me to his realm's run. It was easy.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said Blizz responds to people who are unhappy with their current gaming situation. It is true. That is the core of this whole thread. These people are unhappy with their own raiding situation. I am unhappy with the raiding situation on the server not for my own benefit but in general terms. If I cared about myself getting together a team that can clear content in a week so I can get the title, items, etc then I could just go elsewhere; there have been many, many offers. Weathering out this nightmare, trying to fix and untangle it, this is the real challenge of this game for me now.