Remove healing tide.

100 Draenei Shaman
12565


I was wondering about this.

I also think it's debatable just how much Shaman's Mastery is going to add to it vs the other two and their respective masteries. I'm sure it will add more sometimes, but I have a problem with the assertion that it will always be more, or even be more for a majority of the time.

I can agree that it is the most flexible of the three, and by extension it can be the most powerful depending on the situation, but I can't agree it's the most objectively powerful. Given ideal conditions for each spell (and I have no idea how common/rare those are this tier), it looks like HTT's raw healing will still be less, before factoring in Mastery (since I really dunno how to do that properly). I also probably don't have to say this more than I already have, but this is basically Shaman's entire answer to spread healing/high movement situations. Neutering it/removing it and causing them to fall back on SWG/ST healing again would probably be disastrous.


Well, if it's an Elemental or Enh Shaman, the Mastery won't contribute anyway.


I'll address a few things here too.

Resto Druid Mastery is around 20% for progression-minded players, whereas Resto Shaman Mastery can be a lot higher. (I know some people advocate going to 50% and then switching to Crit but I want to smack those people, personally.) Mine's at 66% now. Resto Druid Mastery adds that flat 20% to all aspects of the Tranq healing. A player would have to be at 70% health or lower in order for my Mastery's contribution to HTT healing to outweigh Fleurs' Mastery contribution to Tranq.

Like Thaimaishu later added, I don't think it's worth considering Ele/Enh HTT in this discussion. They also do not benefit from Purification (1.875x increased healing on HTT).

it does have the limitation that it can not be used at the same time as another water totem (i.e HST, MTT). In practice, this ends up cutting into HST uptime, which would be like Tranq or DH removing active rejuv or PoM applications.


Well. While Tranq doesn't remove active Rejuv or PoM applications, the nature of the channeled spell does mean you can't refresh them if they fall off while you're casting it. I think it's a wash. Losing a little bit of HST uptime in order to heal for nearly 2 million from a single GCD is kind of like totally worth it, if that 2 million healing is needed.

Obviously imperfect usage is going to be a loss in throughput and efficiency no matter what CD we're looking at.

02/15/2013 06:01 PMPosted by Thaimaishu
By ideal conditions, I was assuming healer spec for best raw healing output. Tranq and DH still work best in healing specs too, right?


Boomkin Tranq is pretty strong, or Feral/Guardian HotW Tranq. But having to pair it with another long cooldown to get that kind of strength kind of unbalances the comparison.

Only Holy Priests have Divine Hymn. Shadow Priests have Vampiric Embrace which can be quite strong especially during periods of increased damage vulnerability.

02/15/2013 05:57 PMPosted by Taymage
To me, the idea of talking about nerfing it is ludicrous. It shouldn't even be considered unless they are going to make other changes first, such as increasing the distance on chain heal. I mean it shouldn't even be open for discussion.


Mind you I come from a 25-player background, and while I've done a bit of dabbling in 10s on weeks where we didn't even set foot in one of the raids due to working on progression fights, I haven't done enough to be thoroughly knowledgeable on 10-player raid healing.

However, I think that a lot of the reason we might not see some of these other buffs that 10-player Resto Shaman seem to need (or at least want) is that we have these powerful cooldowns. I would not object to having some of the strength of our cooldowns taken away and instead distributed to our normal healing spells.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
02/15/2013 06:14 PMPosted by Dayani
However, I think that a lot of the reason we might not see some of these other buffs that 10-player Resto Shaman seem to need (or at least want) is that we have these powerful cooldowns.


I think this is mostly true.

Resto shaman are right now generally placed on the lowish end of the healing totem pole. The reason they aren't in a bad place in terms of healing output is *because* of their wonderful cooldowns. Those cooldowns are very useful to any raid group in that they are true lifesavers in a lot of situations.

I would guess that increasing the distance of chain heal, making HTT baseline, and revamping that tier of talents would not constitute so much of a buff that shaman would be outperforming everyone.
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100 Draenei Shaman
12565
02/15/2013 06:28 PMPosted by Taymage
I would guess that increasing the distance of chain heal, making HTT baseline, and revamping that tier of talents would not constitute so much of a buff that shaman would be outperforming everyone.


And I think that having HTT baseline and another talent from that tier would be probably OP. And if they rebalanced them so that it didn't make a huge difference for Resto, then Elemental and Enhancement could lose out on a lot of valuable hybrid healing potential.

It's obviously a hard thing for them to sort out so late into the expansion.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990

Mind you I come from a 25-player background, and while I've done a bit of dabbling in 10s on weeks where we didn't even set foot in one of the raids due to working on progression fights, I haven't done enough to be thoroughly knowledgeable on 10-player raid healing.

However, I think that a lot of the reason we might not see some of these other buffs that 10-player Resto Shaman seem to need (or at least want) is that we have these powerful cooldowns. I would not object to having some of the strength of our cooldowns taken away and instead distributed to our normal healing spells.


First of all, thanks for the discussion, it's pretty fun.

The main differences that I can remember (that are admittedly hard to quantify since they can change from fight to fight) were almost always based around my raid's proximity to my spells. HR, CH, SLT, and so on. Movement used to be a problem too, but it looks like that has improved somewhat (though not a ton). I'm sure I don't need to mention that healers in 10s to have less "assignments" as well, beyond something like "CD for this particular phases/move moment please".

As someone who would like to go back to his Shaman someday, I would not mind what you suggest, but I do not know how they'd really tone them down since most of their contributions (SLT, MTT, and to a lesser extent Stormlash, AV, and Mastery) are quite difficult to properly quantify. They certainly help, but it's not through something obvious like Shaman's HPS meter, nor does it "hurt" others (like a Disc's absorbs might impact the HPS of other healers). So what do you target? The more things that you work on the greater the chance for error, and then there's the whole "welp, beta is over, talk to you Shaman next expansion" problem that...hasn't gone away.

Moreover, I just really don't have faith in Blizzard making a truly comprehensive, well thought-out fix when I look and see much easier to fix issues that are just left neglected, ranging from important things like CH's role in the kit/spread healing and Tier 30/45 talents to less important hings like Glyphs both major and minor. Shaman was supposed to get that last Beta (remember the slides from Blizzcon?) and that just...didn't happen.

And to be frank, these are all changes that would just be nice to have, because despite them all, Shaman is competitive and continues to be, which at the end of the day is good enough for most, especially after Cataclysm and the subsequent rerolling away to other classes. Most of the Shaman still around today will stick with their toons through just about anything, and remember how bad it *could* be compared to now.
Edited by Thaimaishu on 2/15/2013 6:55 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
02/15/2013 06:35 PMPosted by Dayani
I would guess that increasing the distance of chain heal, making HTT baseline, and revamping that tier of talents would not constitute so much of a buff that shaman would be outperforming everyone.


And I think that having HTT baseline and another talent from that tier would be probably OP. And if they rebalanced them so that it didn't make a huge difference for Resto, then Elemental and Enhancement could lose out on a lot of valuable hybrid healing potential.

It's obviously a hard thing for them to sort out so late into the expansion.


As long as that additional talent didn't add more than 10% additional output (which is unlikely - because that would be near Healing Tide levels), I don't think it would be OP. It would only push us from the middle-low to middle-high on the total throughput scale in 25 mans, and out of the basement in 10 mans.

I also don't honestly see a lot of value in buffing the Chain Heal range unless they make the spell itself worth the mana cost more often. Even if the jump range was buffed to something ridiculous like 40 yards, I don't think I'd cast it any more often. It's just too expensive to use extensively unless you are sitting on excess mana, and you are too often better off just casting Healing Waves or Lightning Bolts while waiting to use HR, HST and RT on CD. Chain Heal's biggest issue is its weak HPM, not its range.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12945
And I think that having HTT baseline and another talent from that tier would be probably OP.

It might be in 25s, but not in 10s. And Resto has a wonderful button for tweaking 25s without hurting 10s: Healing Rain diminishing returns.

Baseline 24 yard CH, baseline HTT, and a revamp of that talent tier could all be absorbed in 25s by some adjustment of HR DR. That makes it all a straight buff for 10m shaman, but there's really no danger of OPifying 10m shaman...you could probably buff everything in the spellbook by 10% and still be balanced.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
02/15/2013 06:50 PMPosted by Tiberria
Even if the jump range was buffed to something ridiculous like 40 yards, I don't think I'd cast it any more often


This may be true. I just see no reason the range is lower than everybody else's AoE heals. They used to lie to us and tell us it was technologically impossible to do it. Given the glyph, we now know it isn't (or maybe is no longer) true.
Edited by Taymage on 2/15/2013 6:54 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360

How does it feel to just be a manabot, Tiberria?

?

as in mana tide is the strongest mana cooldown in the game. And a HUGE reason to have a resto shaman in the raid.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
02/15/2013 06:53 PMPosted by Kaels
And I think that having HTT baseline and another talent from that tier would be probably OP.

It might be in 25s, but not in 10s. And Resto has a wonderful button for tweaking 25s without hurting 10s: Healing Rain diminishing returns.

Baseline 24 yard CH, baseline HTT, and a revamp of that talent tier could all be absorbed in 25s by some adjustment of HR DR. That makes it all a straight buff for 10m shaman, but there's really no danger of OPifying 10m shaman...you could probably buff everything in the spellbook by 10% and still be balanced.


If you nerf Healing Rain's output in 25 mans, all you are doing is making Resto output even more tied to cooldowns and its baseline healing even weaker. That is a completely unacceptable trade off; we need to be less, not more chained to cooldowns.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12990
02/15/2013 06:53 PMPosted by Taymage
Even if the jump range was buffed to something ridiculous like 40 yards, I don't think I'd cast it any more often


This may be true. I just see no reason the range is lower than everybody else's AoE heals. They used to lie to us and tell us it was technologically impossible to do it. Given the glyph, we now know it isn't (or maybe is no longer) true.


I don't think they lied when they said the engine didn't allow it it the time (this was mid Cata? I think). I'm sure they found a way to make it work after the fact. It was just putting it on the !@#$ty Glyph with the %^-*ty restrictions instead of making it baseline that really irritated me. Still does. Not only did it show to me how little they cared about the CH debacle (because Glyphs don't matter now remember? They are just "fun" (aka meaningless crap) now compared to before, like everyone wanted), but it gave me a sense of finality on the matter when the baseline didn't change and the glyph somehow managed to get progressively worse. Or maybe I should call it hopelessness? I dunno lol.

I know they prolly don't want it to go back to spammable levels like Wrath, but they didn't have to do the opposite and gut it to oblivion. But hey, it seems poetic in a way that Shaman's "iconic" spell that they are so well known for be in its current state, imo.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
02/15/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Thaimaishu


This may be true. I just see no reason the range is lower than everybody else's AoE heals. They used to lie to us and tell us it was technologically impossible to do it. Given the glyph, we now know it isn't (or maybe is no longer) true.


I don't think they lied when they said the engine didn't allow it it the time (this was mid Cata? I think). I'm sure they found a way to make it work after the fact. It was just putting it on the !@#$ty Glyph with the %^-*ty restrictions instead of making it baseline that really irritated me. Still does. Not only did it show to me how little they cared about the CH debacle (because Glyphs don't matter now remember? They are just "fun" (aka meaningless crap) now compared to before, like everyone wanted), but it gave me a sense of finality on the matter when the baseline didn't change and the glyph somehow managed to get progressively worse. Or maybe I should call it hopelessness? I dunno lol.

I know they prolly don't want it to go back to spammable levels like Wrath, but they didn't have to do the opposite and gut it to oblivion. But hey, it seems poetic in a way that Shaman's "iconic" spell that they are so well known for be in its current state, imo.

I wish it would consume tidal waves instead of generate it... would make a lot more sense in an AoE healing rotation... Imagine on garalon, riptide > CH CH > riptide > CH CH
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/15/2013 08:02 PMPosted by Imgandiloljk
I wish it would consume tidal waves instead of generate it... would make a lot more sense in an AoE healing rotation... Imagine on garalon, riptide > CH CH > riptide > CH CH


That's honestly something I've wanted since I first rolled a Shaman.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105


I don't think they lied when they said the engine didn't allow it it the time (this was mid Cata? I think). I'm sure they found a way to make it work after the fact. It was just putting it on the !@#$ty Glyph with the %^-*ty restrictions instead of making it baseline that really irritated me. Still does. Not only did it show to me how little they cared about the CH debacle (because Glyphs don't matter now remember? They are just "fun" (aka meaningless crap) now compared to before, like everyone wanted), but it gave me a sense of finality on the matter when the baseline didn't change and the glyph somehow managed to get progressively worse. Or maybe I should call it hopelessness? I dunno lol.

I know they prolly don't want it to go back to spammable levels like Wrath, but they didn't have to do the opposite and gut it to oblivion. But hey, it seems poetic in a way that Shaman's "iconic" spell that they are so well known for be in its current state, imo.

I wish it would consume tidal waves instead of generate it... would make a lot more sense in an AoE healing rotation... Imagine on garalon, riptide > CH CH > riptide > CH CH


This is what I think would make the most sense with Tidal Waves and having a fluid single target and AoE healing rotation.

1. Make the current Healing Wave Tidal Waves effect baseline
2. Healing Wave and Riptide should generate Tidal Waves
3. Chain Heal, GHW and Healing Surge should consume Tidal Waves.

This would fix the annoying issue of using Healing Wave as a low throughput filler sometimes causing you not to have Tidal Waves up when you want to get off a GHW/HS. It would also make the pure single target rotation more logical. Instead of feeling like you should overwrite the existing Riptide HoT every 6 seconds (although you can obviously put it on another target), you would be able to keep TW up with Healing Wave fillers and only need to use Riptide when the HoT needed to be refreshed.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
02/15/2013 08:30 PMPosted by Tiberria
1. Make the current Healing Wave Tidal Waves effect baseline

Smells like BC paladins... flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
02/15/2013 05:37 PMPosted by Dayani
t that does not come close at all to a full extra pulse of HTT.


Pretty sure that haste does nothing for totems past the 8% mark as it has been tested. Maybe i am missing something but i forged crazy haste and never gained anything though i didn't drop it with lust up. But even then would be a terrible waste as you rarely lust in times of dire need of healing.
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100 Draenei Shaman
12565
Haste does do things to Totems, it's just that it is incredibly inconsistent (the going theory is something to do with server latency causing the totem duration to be artificially extended or something? I dunno, Bink and Therya tested it out and their results are here: http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=72). I definitely gain more ticks of Healing Tide Totem under Elemental Mastery or Heroism than outside of it.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
9855
02/15/2013 09:32 PMPosted by Imgandiloljk
1. Make the current Healing Wave Tidal Waves effect baseline

Smells like BC paladins... flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal flash heal


I think you missed the most important part
Flash Heal
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90 Troll Shaman
12525


I was wondering about this.

I also think it's debatable just how much Shaman's Mastery is going to add to it vs the other two and their respective masteries. I'm sure it will add more sometimes, but I have a problem with the assertion that it will always be more, or even be more for a majority of the time.

I can agree that it is the most flexible of the three, and by extension it can be the most powerful depending on the situation, but I can't agree it's the most objectively powerful. Given ideal conditions for each spell (and I have no idea how common/rare those are this tier), it looks like HTT's raw healing will still be less, before factoring in Mastery (since I really dunno how to do that properly). I also probably don't have to say this more than I already have, but this is basically Shaman's entire answer to spread healing/high movement situations. Neutering it/removing it and causing them to fall back on SWG/ST healing again would probably be disastrous.


Well, if it's an Elemental or Enh Shaman, the Mastery won't contribute anyway.


If it's an elemental or enhance shaman, then it's irrelevant since they should be spec'd into AG.
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90 Tauren Shaman
7995
This is what I think would make the most sense with Tidal Waves and having a fluid single target and AoE healing rotation.

1. Make the current Healing Wave Tidal Waves effect baseline
2. Healing Wave and Riptide should generate Tidal Waves
3. Chain Heal, GHW and Healing Surge should consume Tidal Waves.


I said this earlier in this thread. But slightly different. I don't think it would be a good idea to have healing wave generating Tidal Waves, opposed to consuming it. In my opinion the best spell to have generate charges other than riptide is Healing Rain. Having it on two abilities that have similar Cd's and do two different things. This would mean that they would function more a kin to how they function now. We have one spell that grants charges single target (RIptide) and one that grants them from AoE (Chain Heal), so to keep that system in check it HAS to be Healing Rain. The thing we have to remember is Sunwell... and the best way I see to fix Chain Heal is to remove its interaction with riptide (this would also come as a nice quality of life change opening up our freedom to cast on whatever target becasue right now we have NO CHOICE but to cast in on a target with riptide for it to be effective) and as a result of comsuming a Tidal Wave charge would not attenuate. That way the glyph can still put it on a Cd for the added jump distance which prevents just spamming the spell. Also we don't have to take into consideration how it may affect ele/enhance's use of chain heal because there will be no change to its base jump distance or attenuation.

The topic here however, is the whether or not Healing Tide aught to be removed or not. I said in another post that its current incarnation should be removed. We were already given our tranq through ascendance and I wish that it was getting the same "look over shoulder and wait for the nerf bat treatment". Our ABILITIES should be stronger than our TALENTS. I would like to see a truly "passive" talent choice for that tier. Something like allowing Healing Stream Totem to Heal an extra target or two, or if anyone has down the "Knife in the Dark" scenario for the 5.1 dailies (or otherwise); the totem that Vul'jin puts down? Still heals one target, but then also puts down a small "Healing Rain" and that could be the new "Healing Tide". Gives more value to totemic projection, restoration, and call of the elements. I would say it should be balanced around it being able to be cast with the same 30 second Cd. That way it can still make up a large portion of our healing over the course of the fight as opposed to all at once, and our filler spells wouldn't have to be altered, nor our mastery. And at the same time making already existing material either one more valuable (based of playstyle for the totem tier), or perhaps better options given a fights dmg pattern; (a passive over time through put increase or a controlled burst for particular phases). The blocks are already there they just gotta put them together properly.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
02/15/2013 06:50 PMPosted by Tiberria
[quote]I would guess that increasing the distance of chain heal, making HTT baseline, and revamping that tier of talents would not constitute so much of a buff that shaman would be outperforming everyone.

...
I also don't honestly see a lot of value in buffing the Chain Heal range unless they make the spell itself worth the mana cost more often. Even if the jump range was buffed to something ridiculous like 40 yards, I don't think I'd cast it any more often. It's just too expensive to use extensively unless you are sitting on excess mana, and you are too often better off just casting Healing Waves or Lightning Bolts while waiting to use HR, HST and RT on CD. Chain Heal's biggest issue is its weak HPM, not its range.

Yeah. Chain Heal is the weaksauce. If you aren't healing off a target with riptide, it's isn't more HPS or HPM than weaving TW's HW/GHW (calc'ed w/ 4pt15). If you are getting the riptide buff, then it is only slightly better, and that's assuming it hits 4 targets AND the primary target is at the same/lower health than the person you'd single target heal.

Range won't make chain heal the filler that bridges the gap caused by nerfing/removing CD's. Range + large % buffs would be a start, but they'd have to be really big to make non-riptide fillers that currently are 20-25% of healing, make up for the loss of 15-18% of healing done. Basically, you'd have to make Chain Heal and Riptide about 25/50% stronger, plus buff Chain Heal range to save 10M shamans where their only AoE spread heal is HTT, to compensate for nerfing/removing HTT.
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