Looking for skilled frost mage

90 Night Elf Mage
6645
If you're bored, or just a nice person and wouldn't mind helping me out... I'd really appreciate it. I am trying out frost for the first time in forever and don't really seem to be doing all that well, too used to fire. Bushido#1593 is my battle tag.. Pretty please help a playa out ;3

I just don't really understand bursting as a frost. ;[
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100 Blood Elf Mage
9770
Basic Frost spec burst is to have x2 FoF ready and a Brainfreeze when Alter Time and Icy Veins are off cooldown. Having a Burst macro button with Alter Time, Icy Veins, Jade Serpent Potion and any on use Trinkets is ideal. When your x2 FoF and Brainfreeze are ready and you have your Frostbolt at 3 stacks on the boss hit your Burst button, burn your x2 FoF and BrainFreeze send off another Frostbomb, Alter time should kick in giving you your x2 FoF and BrainFreeze to burn again. I recommend burning FoF, Brainfreeze, FoF as your Frostbomb will soon be going off which give you another Brainfreeze and possible FoF. So fire them off quick.

Your FoF generators are Orb and Pet Freeze. Your Brainfreeze generator is whichever Bomb you choose.
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90 Troll Mage
15140
02/12/2013 11:37 PMPosted by Frygyd
Having a Burst macro


Never.

Ever.

do this.
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90 Night Elf Mage
4215
02/12/2013 11:37 PMPosted by Frygyd
send off another Frostbomb


Don't use frostbomb. Nethertempest has almost the exact same effect but it deals damage over time, and it gives you multiple FoF procs. Frostbomb only gives you brainfreeze when it explodes.
Edited by Protozmg on 2/13/2013 2:50 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Mage
9770
Frostbomb is a predictable Brainfreeze which is why I like it. But now that I have Light of the Cosmos I have to leave it behind for Living Bomb or Nether tempest.

And ... yes .. Burst macro button... why the hell not? I only have in there the things that I need grouped.

Burst Macro
--------------
Jade Serpent Potion
Trinket(s)
Icy Veins
Alter Time

Zilch wrong with a burst macro so you press it once and fire off all you need.
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100 Undead Mage
13645
A few points (Because I feel like it):

Frygyd is discussing PvE burst as a Frost Mage. And does it properly. However, when most players bring up the term "Burst" they mean it in a PvP setting.

If the Yohso was asking about PvE, then see Frygyd's post.

If PvP, see mine!

Frost Mage burst is more intricate than it used to be and has two main flavors:

Frost Bomb burst mode and... Everything else.

Frost Bomb play involves much more casting and set up than the other styles. But there are some advantages (And disadvantages) to it.

- Keep in mind what Frost Bomb is. It's a mini Bane of Doom. It gives you a large spike of damage after 5-6 seconds. This gives other players time to react to it by popping cooldowns, dispeling and putting up shields/HoTs.

- This means you will ALWAYS telegraph your burst as a Frost Bomb using mage. ALWAYS. Good players won't be tricked and will react to it. This will lead to lots of frustration against better players.

- Also, keep in mind how Frost Bomb interacts with your target. You don't need them frozen when you cast it. Only in the split second of detonation. Too many players throw up their Deep Freeze and Frost Bomb at the same time.

- You can "pre" DoT a target. Sheep a player, put up Frost Bomb on the target, then wind up your burst. Ideally, you can drop a Frost Bomb, Frost Bolt and Ice Lance all at once on a target with nothing but a Pet Nova, then instantly follow it up with a Frostfire Bolt (Auto proc'd from FFB).

This gives any mage using Frost Bomb a HUGE potential damage in a 2 global time frame. This is great, it's fun in BGs, but like I said, it's always going to be obvious. Predictable. And you'll have VERY little damage when NOT doing that.

For the record, this playstyle may take a hit in strength in 5.2 with the expected Frostbolt buff simply because it'll make a smaller difference in how much damage a Frost Bomb or a Frostbolt do in same amount of time.

--------------------------------

The other style of play is with Nether Tempest or Living Bomb (With NT being the better choice to avoid dispels making your life hell).

This playstyle involves keeping NT on a target, fishing for FFBs (They proc off NT) and, in general, doing FAR more overall damage.

You won't have to cast as much, but when you do, it won't hit quite as hard. But NT is a significant amount of damage and gives you a generally higher sustained. For comparison, do a few BGs with Frost Bomb and a few with NT, in general, you'll do higher damage with NT.

The good and bad of this? With NT, you can spread it around pretty much at all. This means your damage isn't NEAR as telegraphed or avoidable. Your sustained is higher, you'll get more FFB procs, you do more damage while trained and it's sorta fun to pretend you're a warlock.

The downside? Fewer big numbers and lower 2-global burst.

Any questions?
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
Frost PvE depends on using your hard hitting spells as soon as they are ready. There's no "buildup" with Frost, unlike Fire which waits for a good Ignite before Combustion and Arcane which builds up charges before a Barrage.

If you like choosing when you will burst, Frost Bomb > Nether Tempest because when Frost Bomb goes off, it's a guaranteed Brain Freeze proc which you can choose to line up with your other spells. Nether Tempest has a 25% chance to give you a Brain Freeze proc on every tick, so you can either get very lucky, or go through a dry streak as well.

So basically all you're pretty much doing is spamming Bomb of Choice as soon as it is ready (for Frost Bomb) or when its about to expire (for the other two), followed by Frozen Orb. Then you cast your 3 x Frostbolts as you pick up FoF and Brain Freeze procs. Once you have 2 x FoF procs and a Brainfreeze you can pop Icy Veins followed by Alter Time, and throwing in Mirror Image at this point isn't a bad idea either.

I would disagree with Frygyd on saving active Trinkets for Alter Time, that's a long wait (3 mins). Most trinkets usually are ready before that and are better used in macro with your bomb and/or Frostbolt to use them as soon as they come off cooldown.

And I would also disagree with him on keeping Potion of the Jade Serpent for Icy Veins, it's best to use it in conjunction with Time Warp. Then again it's wise to use Time Warp, and then Icy Veins, and Alter Time so you get 6 extra seconds on Time Warp & Icy Veins and not just one of them.

But you can only use Jade Serpent potion once a fight, so therefore if you cannot line up Time Warp, Icy Veins, and Alter Time properly, it's better if you use it when you burst haste with Time Warp.

Other than that the only thing I would recommend is putting your Presence of Mind and pet's Freeze in a macro with Frostbolt so they are used as soon as they come off cooldown.
___________________________

If you're talking about PvP, the above info is pretty useless. What I would say with regards to PvP and your glyphs is to remove Glyph of Fire Blast. Using the glyph to insta explode Frost Bomb (your bomb of choice) will result in 50% less damage from the bomb.
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90 Troll Mage
15140
And ... yes .. Burst macro button... why the hell not? I only have in there the things that I need grouped.


OP is in all pvp gear, I assume he means pvp burst in which burst macros are flat out awful
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90 Undead Mage
9150
02/13/2013 02:41 AMPosted by Xiun
Having a Burst macro


Never.

Ever.

do this.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
4870
Can anyone explain why a burst macro is so bad rather than just saying... NEVER DO IT
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90 Troll Mage
15140
02/13/2013 10:01 AMPosted by Asteriá
Can anyone explain why a burst macro is so bad rather than just saying... NEVER DO IT


Because you use your cds for more than bursting.

Alter time for example, can be an amazing defensive and positional CD.

While not the best use, orb can be used defensivly to AoE snare or force a FoF proc.

IV can be used defensively or right before the burst to get CC out.

Perhaps you're about to burst but your teammate gets CC'd. welp you just blew 4 CDs for nothing in a span one 1 gcd.

There's too much unpredictability in pvp to just macro crap together like that. PvE sure, you can time things, you got DBM telling you what's going to happen, pvp, no.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
4870
But that depends on the CDs in the burst eh? My "Burst" is the int pot, mirror, icy veins, trinket. I took AT out due to defensive magic it can create... PoM i NEVER macro. But Im not seeing the setback of mirror+icy+trinket+jade pot..
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90 Blood Elf Mage
4870
In PvE ill take frost bomb..
Ill open with that, drop flamestrike, then before FB explodes pet freeze. whammo big AOE damage, then you have 2 FoF...

Its ideal to get the 3 frostbolts up for the damage, then blow the FoF and instant FFB. Then kind of rinse and repear till dead.

Throw the orb out when mobs arent close to dead to get FoF, use them quick depending on how many mobs because they come quick sometimes.

I dont know its pretty generic but this is kind of what I try to do in PvE.

If he wants PvE info... thats what I like to do.
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90 Troll Mage
18105
02/13/2013 04:44 AMPosted by Breaktheice
Frost PvE depends on using your hard hitting spells as soon as they are ready. There's no "buildup" with Frost, unlike Fire which waits for a good Ignite before Combustion and Arcane which builds up charges before a Barrage.


This is not always true, you will want to save your procs sometimes when you know you are about to have to move. Also, there is definitely ramp time atm via the the 3 stack buff from frostbolt. The frostbolt portion of it goes away in 5.2 but you will still want to frostbolt 3 times on the boss before using ice lance or ffb.
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
02/13/2013 12:53 PMPosted by Jinrah
Frost PvE depends on using your hard hitting spells as soon as they are ready. There's no "buildup" with Frost, unlike Fire which waits for a good Ignite before Combustion and Arcane which builds up charges before a Barrage.


This is not always true, you will want to save your procs sometimes when you know you are about to have to move. Also, there is definitely ramp time atm via the the 3 stack buff from frostbolt. The frostbolt portion of it goes away in 5.2 but you will still want to frostbolt 3 times on the boss before using ice lance or ffb.

Frostbolt doesn't provide additional damage to Frostfire bolt. It only provides additional damage to Frostbolt, Waterbolt, and Ice Lance. Come 5.2 it will only provide bonus damage to Ice Lance & Waterbolt.

Therefore, you could do better using procs as they are ready and then using Scorch on the move to fish for more procs. There are currently only 2 encounters that are long enough that you could take Scorch for, Imperial Vizier and Lei Shi. On every other fight the movement isn't enough to save a proc.

Also mathematically you are better off using Ice Lance even if the target doesn't have 3 stacks of Frostbolt on it. Fights are basically time races where you want to put out the most damage in a finite period of time, aka a few minutes. Delaying procs by ~4-6 seconds by casting 3 x Frostbolt is probably actually never worth it. If you have 2 FoF charges, and decide to stack 3 x Frostbolt on the target, you risk losing potential FoF charge procs from the 3 casts, because you cannot stack the FoF buff more than twice. This risk is greater in 5.2 because the chance to get FoF procs from Frostbolt is increased.
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90 Troll Mage
15140
02/13/2013 02:09 PMPosted by Breaktheice
If you have 2 FoF charges, and decide to stack 3 x Frostbolt on the target, you risk losing potential FoF charge procs from the 3 casts, because you cannot stack the FoF buff more than twice.


So what's the issue of holding onto one IL and just using it when you get 2 until you stack 3 frostbolts?
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
You could still lose a proc though, if 2 of the 3 Frostbolts were to give you charges. For example:

- You have 1 FoF
- Cast Frostbolt -> Gives you one more
- Cast Frostbolt -> Gave you one more which you lost because you didn't use Ice lance
- Cast Frostbolt

So in this example, you could have potentially gotten 3 charges, but used only 2. You're hitting 2 Ice Lance at 15% increased damage.

If you had used Ice lance as soon as you got the FoF, you could have done 1 Ice Lance, a second with 5% increased damage, and a third with 10% increased power. That is more damage compared to what you're doing.

This is also why it's worth it to stop Frostbolt on a target even if debuff falls off when you get many FoF charges in a short period of time, for example, upon releasing Frozen Orb on Wind Lord when his adds are out. You can CC four adds, but he still will pull 5 adds with him. 6 targets being hit by Frozen Orb is alot of FoF procs. It makes no sense to stop to cast 3 x Frostbolt on your target since you cannot stack more than 2 charges of FoF. You'll lose out on too much damage.

This is something Frost mages will have to watch out for in 5.2 as the proc rate has been increased from both Frostbolt & Orb.
Edited by Breaktheice on 2/13/2013 2:55 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
4870
This is good info.. I thought it boosted ffb too. Good to know. Any other tips to boost dps. For the op of course ;)
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
^Yes, while we're still in 5.1, when you raid terrace throw down your anatomical dummy or rotting turnip dummy next to Tsulong, Lei Shi, and Sha on the encounters. This lets you get 2 FoF charges per Freeze instead of just 1 on those bosses. You can also use it on Protectors if the Protector you are aiming is too far away from the other(s) for you get 2 FoF charges by using Freeze, or when there is just 1 protector left.

Terrace is considered "out doors Pandaria" which is why you can use those dummies and mount there as well.
Edited by Breaktheice on 2/13/2013 3:44 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
13720
I prefer NT to frostbomb in pvp as a frost mage. Like many others posted, frostbomb is predictable and basically unviable if your enemy team has a good healer. Plus the 70 percent movement reduction is nothing grand. You have plenty of other spells that are just as good in that department. I prefer more fof procs to a BF anyday.

However, in pve I always use frostbomb. Only because it works well for anything. Group or single encounters.
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